Let's talk about Blight's J-Flick - Exploit or Tech? It can turn more than 180* + Macro
Comments
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Well yea that's when it becomes a mindgame, so then if he keeps predicting you start running away and countering his flick you continue running the loop normally.
This requires you to read what he might do, ya know, mindgaming.
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50/50 is not a mind game.
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Considering the fact that you cannot do this with what is provided in game and a dev said that this itself was unintentional because your turning more in a frame before your camera becomes locked, no this is an exploit by definition.
you can argue if it should remain or if it's fair but you cannot argue that this isn't an exploit and imo it should be fixed.
edit: Looks like it wont get fixed, like i said it seems pretty BS for survivors if you ignore the BS survivors have and just focus on the chase. Blight isn't a chase focused killer he has a mix of chase and traversal so he shouldn't be that oppressive to the point where you can do a 270* or something like that.
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Okay, Blight's flick is unintentional, just as Oni's flick is.
However, that doesn't mean that flicking hasn't become a feature.
Flicking is one of the reasons Blight is such an amazing Killer, and removing it would take something incredibly valuable from his kit.
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Oh, so when killers find a tech, it is called an exploit.
The hypocrisy.
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I wouldn't consider it an exploit if it wasn't a pc only "tech", it's kinda bs consoles just can't do it, like isn't all their downsides in this game enough already?
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so its like the top percentage of ratata but instead of ratata its blight
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And console?
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No...
I am all for locking blight to a 100 degree turn but nurse and huntress need the movement. Console users need to stop relying on killer control limitations and horrific fps. Your 360's wont work to well once people start upgrading to ps5 and series x
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Everything a survivor can do on pc can be replicated on console. this can't.
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no, it's not BS.
if you have a console, you bought an inferior, but AFFORDABLE, gaming system. that's not to shame anybody for buying a console at all; consoles are popular for a reason.
but fact is, consoles are ALWAYS going to have downsides compared to PC, and that is what you subject yourself to upon purchasing a console and playing a game that allows cross-platform. you are not going to be on the same tier of PC players when it comes to controls, performance and overall freedom.
just because consoles don't have something doesn't mean PC can't. I personally did not ask to play on the same platform as them, and neither did plenty of console players. But with the vast majority of the playerbase in the cross-platform pool, we don't have much of a choice to play with each other, and we can't be limiting each other for the sake of being on the same level of freedom because that's just simply not going to be possible.
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Flicks are exploits in this game. It should be removed, and so should all the other killers'. You're not supposed to have that kind of turning with those killers' abilities.
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nice appeal to purity, but no.
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No true scotsman would ever..
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You can't even replicate it on pc unless you go out of your way to buy a specific mouse with that function.
It won't be fixed until to many people are abusing it so i guess we wait.
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The flick itself doesn't bother me.
Mclean himself said that it's an intentional mechanic, same with Oni & Billy curving.
What botheres me, is the fact that you can go WAY BEYOND than it's intended by having a very good mouse / high DPI. I know good equipment gives you an edge in certain games but in this case, you literally break the system, the 270* blight flick is by far the biggest proof there is.
Something else that bothers me is the fact that this removes any and all counterplay to Blight. Hiding behind an object? I'll just flick, INSTANTLY turn and hit you. The hitboxes are forgiving and hits do not get stopped by environment.
If we were to compare Oni 180* to Blight 180* we can come to the conclusion that Blight's easier. Why? Blight can see the survivor way better than Oni can trying to pull a 180* flick. Oni is also easier to avoid. Oni is easier to trick than Blight during a rush. Billy doesn't quite belong in this discussion tbh in the first place as his base kit has been gutted by being the only killer in the game where your power will be limited if you use it too much. Where do you think a certain amount of Billy mains went after this change? -> Blight. Besides, where was the last time you've seen a really good Flickbilly? A more important question is, do they exist anymore or they changed killers? I'm not even done.
If we were to compare Blight and Oni flick, when Oni flicks he flungs himself forward a little, Blight on the other hand, HE LUNGES FORWARD a lot more than Oni allowing for some really far accusations (by that I mean, you can 180* flick and with the speed and reach from Blight, you can hit some really really nasty hits...)
Just watch the videos. Compare Oni and Blight flick and see which one's easier... Not mentioning that Oni also has to predict and has no sight on the survivors when he's trying to flick off-screen.
If we were to compare Oni and blight EVEN MORE, blight missing a 180* vs Oni 180*. Oni is going to be punished even more due to his long stun and cooldown. DID I MENTION ONI HAS TO EARN HIS POWER?
Not yet... This removes any and all counterplay blight should have by abusing an unintended mechanic.
This needs to be limited to at least something like 90* IMO.
We still have to take into consideration two other factors:
- Blight's POV fix that decrease his difficulty. This alone is a tremendous buff to Buff to Blight IMO and we're gonna see a lot more Blights. Do you want be flicked around a corner every time you encounter one? This removes any and all counters to blights, the fact you can instantly flick around it and again unlike Oni, your hits slide off objects until they hit the survivor...
- Addons
Conclusion: Oni's flick compared to Blight's flick has like 5 downsides and more punishing.
I honestly want a definitive answer from the devs... @Peanits @McLean
This can not stay with the upcoming blight buff. Blight has received one buff after another, this just overspills the water in the chalice.
Edit: By "far accusations" I mean something like in this video at 0:50 - Tell me, can Oni flick around a corner from that far and still hit someone? It could've gone further and hit David on the other side of the gen if Kate wasn't there.
Post edited by Pilot on4 -
Imo might be a bit bias, but as a blight main I've tried to do this and have found that it can be rewarding and really good if you know where and when to use it, although I've found it to be difficult and found it harder than expected I even have max sense and dpi. I've found that it can actually be more of a hindrance if the survivors your versing has half a brain. They'll learn where you can and can't do it and stop it from happening.
He also uses flicks just like hillbilly. Billy can curve and flick around rocks and other certain loops, one shotting survs. But for Billy to do that, he has to put survs in the situation for it to happen. Same as blight. If your a good blight you must put them in the situation for it to work. If not you'll miss and they get distance.
Removing this would be a massive reduction to his skill ceiling as It comes from the flicks he gets especially the 90 degree ones. And what I'm understanding is that you want to reduce the degree he can swing is back to base, which is I think 60.
Not just making him vulnerable to really tight areas In loops but being back the surv just turns around and he misses problem.
EDIT: grammar and spelling mistakes
Post edited by 1nsignia on1 -
Isn't the whole thing about Blight's Rush that it's hard for him to turn
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One great way of putting it lol
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I mean pc players just turn more with certain killers anyway... it's not like pc players get numerous other benefits and advantages so what's one more...
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I'm sorry but this is nothing like "performance is worse than PC" or "aiming is harder on console compared to PC" kind of thing.
Like look at Nurse,Deathslinger or Huntress for example.They are definetely harder to play on console but it's still very manageable.
But the thing with Blight is that this tech makes him even stronger than he already is.Like MUCH stronger.And console has absolutely no access to this tech whatsoever.
And that's the problem.Either give everyone access to this tech or not.This is just straight up unfair and bad design in my opinion.
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you do not have to go out of your way to get a button that switches DPI on your mouse. that's a pretty common feature on the majority of modern gaming mice.
you can also just bind a DPI switch to a button on your mouse through its settings.
even then, you can also just play on high DPI without any type of switch. I know of people who flick with Blight that do.
It won't be fixed until to many people are abusing it so i guess we wait.
This is why I don't understand the complaint. There's gotta be well under a hundred Blights that do it (I never even see regular Blights). This is also why I don't think anyone that hasn't practiced against a flick Blight in private lobbies and genuinely tried counterplay that's been developed - like in the plenty of scrims I've watched where people have FOUND very very workable counterplay against it, most of which is just general Blight counterplay - can truly say it has no counterplay, which is not what the players who do play against flick Blights very frequently say at all. The reason you can't understandably know of any counterplay is that barely anybody does it, which again, brings up my question of why even bother making long forums posts complaining about it and begging for its removal? It's not forever Freddy or old prayer beads Spirit. You're not seeing it every other game whatsoever.
It feels like the only real reason that most people here want it removed is that they can't do it themselves on a console, which is unsurprising.
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Unfair?
The game is PC Blight vs. console/PC Survivors, not console Blight vs PC Blight.
If this game was a game where two sides are given a character - Blight - and you're supposed to both have an equally strong Blight to fight each other, but one Blight has the advantage over the other Blight because one Blight is on PC or console and they have some type of advantage in their controls that is not possible at all for the other side, of course, that'd be unfair.
However, this game is not Blight vs Blight. It's Blight vs. Survivors. You do not have any more of an advantage over console survivors with flicks than you do against PC survivors; both can use the same effective counterplay against a flick Blight.
The reason it's considered unfair is that you just WANT the tech for console. It seems to be more of a jealousy thing. I understand, flicking with Blight is fun. So instead of taking it away from PC for no reason, why not just make Blight better on console? I see his controls are pretty terrible already on a controller, so let's advocate for giving him better control on console rather than restricting Blight on PC when there's no actual problem with it besides the fact that it's unintended, but actually adds to the experience as and against him.
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It's not an exploit. Give me a break. You know how you dodge out to avoid a Billy curve if he's curving tight? Do that. You don't even need a super special mouse. I know people who J flick at 1600 dpi. I use 4800-6000 to save my wrist.
Why don't we just hard cap everyone's FPS at a steady 30 so Switch isn't at a disadvantage? Analog sticks were never meant to pan a first person camera. They're inherently limited as to what they can do. That's not a reason to kill the skill cap of a killer. We'd have an extremely boring roster if every killer was designed around consoles.
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Exactly. As I've said earlier, I don't understand why I have to have my controls limited to be more on the same level with a platform that I didn't ask to be matched with. Even if I had crossplay off, ONLY playing against PC players, my controls would STILL be limited if they did update Blight or any other killer.
It makes no sense to complain about an advantage that systems that can cost up to several thousands of dollars more than yours have and demand THEM to be limited more towards your controls. I'm all for making Blight better on console, and that's the solution that we should want. But console players wanting to make Blight on PC worse because they have a disadvantage (compared to other killers, they have no disadvantage in-game AGAINST a flicking Blight) that they opted into having upon purchasing a console? That is plain irritating to see.
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I know,i was calling it unfair because not being able to use this tech removes a lot of potential lethality from blight.
It raises the skill ceiling of PC blights to a level console blights won't be able to get to at all.That is the thing i don't like.Everyone should be able to get on the same level when investing enough time on a certain character.
Like,i feel it's not really fun trying to learn a character that i know is inherently weaker on my plattform (not looking at FPS and aiming ability).
But i do agree that improving Blight on console should be the priority.
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Nurse has full movement. Unlike Billy and Oni that have turn limits.
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So should we remove Shift teching from survivors? Just to compensate the "Exploit"
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Of course, I understand what you're saying completely. I know of console Blight players who desperately want PC controls with Blight, and I don't blame them or you. He's an EXTREMELY fun killer.
But in this situation, there is no in-game advantage that PC Blights have over console survivors. So, instead of TAKING AWAY from PC, like I said, let's just add to console. Let's make console better. For other killers too, if that helps. I don't want consoles to be super limited when it comes to Blight, but no console player should want PCs to be super limited when it comes to Blight either. Your experience as Blight is bad, right? My experience as Blight on PC is good, right? Then instead of making both of our experiences closer to bad, let's make both of our experiences closer to good.
Even without flicking, console Blight is straight up bad compared to PC. Removing flicking isn't gonna solve any issue, it's just gonna make people unhappy when that doesn't need to happen.
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Could you hypothetically remove the downside of adrenaline vial by upping the dpi and just have 7 rushes which recharge quickly?
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Do you have video of someone doing this supposed counter against blight?
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if its possible to do on PC, and not possible to do on console, it should be patched.
and even on top of that, the majority of people on PC are not going to be playing blight with a macro specifically for the occasion in which they can take advantage of massive turn rates on a killer who has add-ons SPECIFICALLY ABOUT TURN RATES SINCE ITS SUPPOSED TO BE LOW.
Sincerely, a person who plays Blight and does not feel like making a macro just to have an unfair one-up to remove the killers one weakness.
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A bit late to the party but whatever. Personally, I despise any kind of gameplay affecting modifications be it stretch res, sensitivity changes / macros for flick on all killers who can abuse it, filters to make tracking easier, sounds modification, just name it.
All of that is in my view, plain and simple exploting as you're gaining gameplay advantages you shouldn't have under normal conditions.
In perfect world, devs would just put limit on all of that so that you can't adjust it yourself but that won't happen as not enough people do it for them to care with making a fix if it's even possible to limit all of this from technical standpoint.
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Yes. I recommend watching some scrims against flick Blights.
VeryTrackDisco (https://www.twitch.tv/verytrackdisco) has plenty of tournament scrim Blight gameplay in his VODs against players who do very well against him in chase (all in private lobbies). XenoDBD (https://www.twitch.tv/xenodbd) also plays a flick Blight against good players (all in private lobbies). I believe Xeno was actually explaining and demonstrating the counterplay possible yesterday, though I'm not sure when he did. VeryTrackDisco was doing 1v1's with someone the other day and was teaching them counterplay the other day as well. I'm sure you could find some good gameplay in his VOD to get an idea of how they play around Blight.
Watch them chase, see what they do when they break LOS and make their pathing unpredictable. It's similar to Nurse, in a way.
You also might like watching some of the Blight 1v1 tournament, which shows survivor perspectives as well (and the guys I linked also play survivor against other tourney Blights, so you can find that there too). However, these 1v1 tournaments aren't the greatest examples because they're 1v1s, so they're not afraid to throw down a pallet when you normally wouldn't in an actual game, but that's not ALWAYS the case. Either way, here's one that lasted 6 hours: https://www.twitch.tv/alby/video/893957425 Pure Blight vs. good players.
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The core argument is that this should either be a calculated feature of his kit or it should be removed. Blight is not balanced around that kind of mobility given that the only downside of his rush is the low turning radius. He was clearly never intended to turn that fast and being able to do so gives you a massive advantage.
So, if we want Blight to keep this, this mechanic should be made accessible to all players, not just ones with DPI switches on PC, and he should be balanced accordingly. If not, which I think is by far the better idea, this exploit should be fixed.
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The whole premise of making changes to the survivor side to "compensate" for fixing a killer exploit is one I'd disagree with. Fix the exploit because it is an exploit; who cares which side it's on?
With that said, yes, shift teching is garbage and should not exist.
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It was more of a point to make tbf. just bout every patch i see atleast one nerf towards killers and it sucks. the Flicks on blight should stay imho, Makes him more unique as a Killer.
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From gameplay experience, from experience watching game after game of very skilled Blights going against players who understand counterplay against it, and having gone against a few flick Blights in private lobbies myself, I cannot agree with you when it comes to it making Blight unbalanced. In theory, I understand what you're getting at; he wasn't DESIGNED around his lunge being capable of what it is with the DPI flick. However, this technical oversight has become a core part of a high level Blight's skill set, and I've seen it add nothing but healthiness and complexity to the 1v1, and in turn, the 1v4 gameplay between a knowledgable Blight player and knowledgable survivors.
With an understanding of how the flick plays out in practice, and not just in theory, I've found it to be unproblematic and actually beneficial to the gameplay. If it were made accessible to console players, I wouldn't complain at all. In fact, I'd love for that to happen. I would enjoy seeing more Blights while playing survivor - especially flick Blights.
If what our disagreement comes down to is our personal preference on whether or not it's enjoyable to go against flick Blights and if you prefer to value the theory of something over the actual practice of something, then so be it. I believe that's where the argument ends.
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What's the shift tech?
Never heard of that.
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You stand near the window and wait for the killer to get close towards you before sprinting and get a instant fast vault despite looking like a Medium vault
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Can you show me an example?
I think i've seen some people doing that but i'm not sure about it.
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I'm a PC blight player and I think it's a stupid exploit. They designed the killer to have limited turning, but you can flick if you've got high enough sens? It's clear they accidentally programmed it like this and can't understand how to fix it or just can't be bothered. It's the same thing with Billy. If he came out now people would laugh BHVR out of the room with how weird and ######### up his turning/flicking is... but everyone's just got used to it because back then it was a janky party game from an indie dev.
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What's that?
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My personal preference is to remove it because I don't like how it plays, yes, but as I said I'm also perfectly fine with making this an intended part of his kit. I just don't think it's good in its current state; you shouldn't need to play on PC with a mouse with a DPI button in order to play Blight at a high level. I'd prefer they either make it more accessible or remove it.
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Lemme nab you a clip on my twitch.
Example: https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryCogentMushroomDxCat-8UwM6eG5oa8KBc86
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Look at the clip above my comment =D
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This might be the first thread I've ever seen where people unironically say that Blight is easier to play than Oni.
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I've played against half a dozen of these blight cheaters, yeah I consider it cheating, it's crap there is virtually nothing you can do about it, unless they mess up or dead hard is available, you're gonna get hit.
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I just heard this in a stream but the way you would make a fix for it would be to have a check 1 frame after the frame where the camera is normal that lets you go to absurd angles. It would check if you went past a set angle the previous frame and would then "cap" it to the desired angle (Like 100 degrees or something). It would look pretty bad but it'll only affect those who actually wanna exploit the game and cheat so I don't see a problem with a jank workaround like this.
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au contraire mom ami.
50/50 is a requirement for it to be a mindgame.
because your opponent has 2 options, and you need to pick one to counter. meaning, you need to get in his mind to pick properly.
if it isn't 50/50, you're just playing the odds
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