Only noed rework I find fair for everyone (although I don't think it's needed in the first place)

Personally I don't think people will heal at the end before last gen anyway, i think it would just make injured people hide nearby whilst their team-mate opens the door, or get chased, if its 1 v 1 then its more find hatch or wait at gate regardless.

NOED doesn't need a rework as you said, maybe a totem counter if anything as knowing if all totems are done as a solo player can suck, but where's the fun in that

This seems a bit to far of a nerf for noed imo.

Although I'm in favour of a nerf somewhat, I'd much rather it would reward good play, like a token for each hook and at a certain amount of tokens you get the exposed status effect.

I have felt NOED should be nerfed, but differently.

Still have it activate at the same time keeps speed boost, but now has tokens of insta-down.

Tokens are tied to how many totems are still on map, max of 5, minimum 2 tokens regardless of totems left as long as one is left for the Hex.

This keeps it strong, but survivors can weaken it.

In the moment, usually survivors will have no clue how many insta-downs he has. Also gives them more of a fighting chance against the EGC timer, as in survivors can cleanse a totems or two to weaken it, and potentially bring insta-down tokens to 0 if he already has used one or 2.

For the killer, he can see when token number dwindles down. That will let him know he isn't keep up the pressure on survivors.

For new Killers it is still a crutch perk, as new survivors wont know to do/can't find totems.

For intermediate and advance killers still give them a comeback mechanic, if they kept up pressure really well.

I think when you are healthy when the exit gates are powered and get hit after that you can still heal. And you know that the killer has that perk, so you can avoid it. I think its a nice idea, but not really strong.

Personally I still think that noed's equivalent is hatch ,rather than adrenaline.

You're also wrong then.

Hatch rewards for losing.

Noed rewards for losing.

Hatch usually activates as survivors get pushed into a corner, although it could activate when survivors are winning anyway.

Noed usually activates when killer is pushed into a corner, although it could activate even when the killer is winning anyway.

Hatch gives a powerful opportunity for survivor to succeed.

Noed gives a powerful opportunity for killer to succeed.

Devs created hatch to give survivors a chance for added suspense.

Devs created noed to make killers a bigger threat at the end for added suspense.

RNG search for hatch.

RNG search for lit noed totem.

Hatch feels undeserved by killers.

Noed feels undeserved by survivors.

Just slug for the 4k.

Just do bones.

I think more importantly that there are a lot of similar responses between noed and hatch. Except, it switches depending on whose talking.

If you want to play a game of point out the differences than fine.

Adrenaline requires survivors to finish their objective while noed requires the killer to guard their totems, which is a separate task.

Adrenaline rewards survivors for winning. Noed rewards for losing.

Adrenaline heals a health state automatically, while noed requires the killer to m1 the survivor to have an effect. It does not instantly hit every survivor and drop them 1 health state.

Noed is a hex, can be removed before and after it is activated but it doesn't end unless removed or all survivors escape. Adrenaline cannot really be stopped unless the killer wins but it does have a time limit for the speed boost.

Adrenaline does not give an extra health state if the survivor is uninjured so they can take 3 hits. Being downed doesn't really count in my eyes either since that's stronger than just healing a single health state. Plus noed only works on m1s. Not exactly robbing a single health state either. I don't think that's equivalent.

Your last point " Adrenaline useless against instadowns, noed useless against injured as it only takes one hit anyway" is a stretch for equivalency. You could use that logic to make anything equivalent as long as it's useless. At least what I said has to do with how people have the same problems with hatch and noed. Saying hatch is useless if the survivors win and noed is useless if the killer wins is way more of a direct equivalence.

A lot of the things you've said makes it actually sound like they're counter perks with each other not equivalent perks.

Make it based on hooks and not unhooks. Maybe each token or every two tokens gives you a 1% speed boost, and at 4 or 5 tokens the exposed status effect at end game.

Honestly, i think everything is fair game at the end of the trial. Act like you're playing L4D, If a teammates getting charged across the map, and the safehouse is right there, are you gonna help him and lose or win?

there is nothing else to do at the end game besides face camp. You move and that person gets unhooked and the rest leave. Then you got borrowed time for the unhooked and without noed the other guy gets hit and gets a burst of speed and leaves. Whats a killer to do.

Ya but im trying to kill not pip.....there is literally no reason to leave the hook because everyone is already at the exit gate besides the one dude who is gonna go for the save

What else am I suppose to do?

But im trying to kill

We'll agree to disagree. At this point we will just argue in circles.

Ps I tried to copy your rhetoric and tone. It's nice when ppl call themselves out for bullshit.

I personally don't like this, it seems to me it would drastically reduce its usefullness.

Personally I would add just one condition to NOED: only survivors who have been hooked at least once become exposed. This way facecampers can't use it to get more unfair kills, but killers who play normally and spread their hooks would still be able to enjoy the power spike in the end.