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If this game's so easy then why does it take hundreds of hours for everyone to get competent ?
There's a common thing I've heard, some from veterans and some from non-veterans, saying the game is too easy and doesn't involve skill. Tru3 is one of the streams who often says something along the lines of "this game doesn't take talent/skill, it takes game knowledge". Others will often say something like people overrate how much it takes to get good at this game and it doesn't take a lot, Well,
First of all, that doesn't even make sense. Your ability to have skill and talent comes from developing that knowledge. And if said knowledge is so easy to obtain then why is it taking everyone at least hundreds of hours to get in the beginning stages of being competent, and thousands to potentially become good?
There's no excuse for not being able to get better. There are tonnes of resources online for how to get better at the game for both sides. Yet for some reason even with all of these resources, it's still taking people so much time to get better, but yet you still have people who call the game easy to play.
If it was that easy then why is someone who has 400 hours not almost identical to someone with 2000+ hours, let alone 1000? If this game was as easy to learn as some people make it out to be, then why is it that the skill tiers are so distinct from one another, particularly by the amount of hours someone plays? And this is very evidenced by the complaints of "rainbow" matchmaking, or matchmaking not within particularly rank tiers.
Why is it that these said people who say the game takes "no skill" and is "easy" are the ones who themselves have thousands of hours in the game? If it was that easy what took you so long to get to the level you're at now?
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It's easy to say it takes no skill when they played the game for 5 years. It's even easier to claim the game is still biased towards one side after 5 years of playing.
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I know when I first started playing, skillchecks seemed to be this impossible hurdle to overcome, I just couldn't hit them fast enough. This forced me to use Feng Min for her clutch perk so I didn't just enter a match and start blastin' all over the place.
Obviously that didn't take THAT much experience to get past, but it's a decent example. Apply that same concept to looping, knowing when to vault or drop pallets, knowing when to unhook, or even just knowing when to dodge a hit. Dead Hard, 'hard skillchecks' like DS, etc.
It all take experience, some things more than others. Hell I still can't work Flashlights properly.
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This game is easy... compared to most other popular games.
Not to be a braggart but I'd say I'm pretty much the same skill level as all those streamers who play killer for a living, but I can play Rainbow Six or CS:GO for hundreds of hours and still get steamrolled every other match.
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Easy to learn, lifetime to master.
It's basically Othello. With more bugs and less toxicity.
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Anyone can say that; people often overestimate their skill. And everyone's good when using certain perks and/or killers as well. You don't need to be very good at the game to pretty much 4k all the time with undying/ruin/tinkerer/pop freddy or spirit for example. Being good at the game also goes beyond constantly getting 4ks or getting out of a match, which isn't hard to do when perks can carry you so heavily.
And again my point is: if the game was so easy then in general there would be less distinction between skill tiers. There would not be much difference between someone who played 200 hours vs 3000 hours. We would be seeing more of these mythical-and-still-yet-to-be-validated prodigies like you yourself claim to be
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True is right, to be "good" at this game is mostly about game knowledge which translates to memorization of tiles, perks, and killers.
There is a bit of skill involved though which manifests as predicting what your opponent is going to do, but even most of this is based off of memorizing the items above.
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Because there is no tutorial. People play this game for a few hundred times crouching around everywhere cause they don't know any better, of course those people won't know how to loop.
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Well yeah cause most people think of this game as Mario Party.
The amount of players who spend more than 50 hours on this game is probably like 0.1% of everyone who buys it.
Nobody is practicing DbD day-in day-out so they can participate in the Uber Super Champion's League World Tournament. The average player is just not very invested. There's no grinding for Diamond in DbD.
Comparatively to most of the playerbase I'm pretty confident you or I or anyone else on this forum with more than 500 hours would look like a god.
And I also think you're way overselling the skill of streamers. How often do you see Otzdarva or OhTofu or whoever get into a private game with the best of the best survivors? Almost never? They mostly play in pubs with completely uncoordinated randoms.
Here are screenshots of me winning against streamers. Both games are from the same night sometime in December 2020. By your logic surely I must be some kind of god gamer to win against these teams right?
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I think you make some pretty good points.
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This game doesn't reward skill. On both side for every techniques you can use with skill there's a no skill way to do thing.
You can play freddy with slowdown addons and get easy wins. Or you can spend hours learning nurse for near the same result.
Same way for survivor. You don't have to be that good at looping. You can just focus on the objective and rank up easy.
If anything this game need more high skill high value gameplay mechanics. And make the low skill alternative less effective.
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That literally doesn't fit the definition of skill. You cannot have skill without more advanced knowledge and the decisions you make based off of said knowledge translates to skill. Saying the game requires knowledge but little skill is dumb and makes zero sense. Little skill translates to performing badly. This also applies for every single game. Knowledge enables you to make better decisions which becomes skill.
Never seen the Mario Party comparison until today, so I don't quite buy "most people" think of this game compared to Mario Kart. It seems like it's just you.
Where's your source that said percentage correlates with those amount of hours? It seems like you're just talking out of your ass. It seems like you're superimposing your own pejorative thoughts onto the game and then claiming it as fact. You can literally check steam achievement statistics for DBD and it proves you wrong. And that's only for PC players, the minority platform of this game. It would be even amplified more on console.
DBD's grind technically is for the BP, which you subsequently get by playing a lot, which by playing a lot you're prone to get better. Grind for rank or not, DBD has grind that people buy into nonetheless. Doesn't really matter if DBD has diamond rank or not.
When you said streamers, my thoughts were of the veteran streamers such as Otz/Tofu/Tru3/basically 4000 hour+ streamers. Some of them also play in tournaments. But my point is getting a 4k isn't the end all be all of skill. I'll repeat what I said:
You don't need to be very good at the game to pretty much 4k all the time with undying/ruin/tinkerer/pop freddy or spirit for example. Being good at the game also goes beyond constantly getting 4ks or getting out of a match, which isn't hard to do when perks can carry you so heavily.
Also, the lack of coordination of survivors often is just due to the pitfalls of solo queue. It's a team role but you're not given the tools to act as a proper team. Instead of 1v4 it turns out to be 1v1v1v1v1. Not truly an issue of skill in that department.
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"Also, the lack of coordination of survivors often is just due to the pitfalls of solo queue. It's a team role but you're not given the tools to act as a proper team. Instead of 1v4 it turns out to be 1v1v1v1v1. Not truly an issue of skill in that department."
Yeah, that's exactly my point. How do you know how much the potato salads Otzdarva plays against have played? How do you know whether they're playing consistently or have taken large breaks? How do you know if they're just grinding for BP or genuinely trying to improve?
That's why I brought up diamond rank in other games. In Rainbow Six when you go up against a diamond 5-stack you know they are good, you know they are actively playing, and you know they want to win. When you go up against a red-rank survivor they could have played literally one match per month to stay there and you wouldn't know the difference.
TLDR: The hours are not an apt comparison for skill in DbD. When we get a copper through masters ranking system and only the best of the best streamers are up there at the top, then you can tell me this game is difficult to learn.
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How often do you see Otzdarva or OhTofu or whoever get into a private game with the best of the best survivors?
Otz was in the Hexy tournament, and has been in several before IIRC. Whether or not those tourney Survivors are "the best of the best" is entirely beyond me (how would you even quantify that?). I honestly don't know if that even means anything, but it's more than many other streamers.
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Their point most likely is that this game has very very few mechanically difficult things to do which makes getting good accessible to wider range of people. Memorizing every single tile and how to play them against and as every killer against varying difficulty of players while taking in consideration 140 perks takes tons of time. This game is over 90% game knowledge that doesent make it a game that requires no skill but a game that requires diffrent kind of skill from many other games especially shooters.
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The game isnt hard and doesnt take skill, true is right. Its all about game knowledge and id say common sense and some iq helps too.
It doesnt require any great skill or training to hold a button at a gen and have the reflexes of an infant to hit skill checks, doesnt take skill to drop a pallet, hit a survivor or unhook.
The main separation is knowledge of loops, how to combine windows and pallets to extend a loop, and be efficiant on gens (gens efficiency being HUGE). Ive seen teams that couldnt chase longer then 40 seconds but they could bang out gens.
Nothing about this game is hard or takes skill
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That's the great irony, it's a casual game with simple mechanics yet is played by some of the sweatiest tryhards in all of gaming and takes hundreds of hours to be competent.
Of course somethings let you get results without that kind of competence as skill. NOED can let killers get results with no skill and for survivors its certain maps.
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You're mixing up skill in terms of mechanics and game knowledge. DBD doesn't take much skill in terms of mechanics. You don't need much precision movements, fast reflexes or complex controls for DBD. Even nurse isn't too difficult when you think about it. The worst part is that her difficulty is inflated by poor controls, feed back and bugs.
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Playing at the highest level definitely takes skill.
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Making better decisions from advanced knowledge is literally the definition of skill as per the dictionary:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/skill
the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well:
So you just admitted this game requires skill, and also admitted you're using the word wrong.
That is fair, but different type of skill should not be equated to no skill. Learning how to aim in an FPS game isn't particularly the hardest thing to do either, let alone requiring much thought.
People really romanticise skills in other games when video game skill boils down to a bunch of non sense almost all the time. People need to stop acting like other video games are equivalent to real life sports that require serious effort and talent to do: being physically fit, training extremely hard to be good at it, etc.
Video game skill, including for FPS games that people for some reason take too seriously for some odd reason, result in knowing when to press a button on your mouse or certain buttons on your keyboard. Really not grandiose in the scheme of things.
Matchmaking isn't the best in this game, sure. But I will repeat myself again: winning isn't the definition of skill in this game. There are tonnes of games out there where skill isn't defined by winning or completing the game and DBD is one of them
Hours are not the end all be all of defining skill, but it's a general correlation, much as is rank. People often say rank means nothing, but yet complain about mismatched matchmaking. You can't have it both ways. Hopefully MMR fixes that, but the mixmatched match making doesn't negate anything about how it takes skill to play this game, and the general pattern that it takes people hundreds of hours to even begin being competent. Your claim that you're on par with streamers with over 4000 hours is still yet to be verified and at this point doubtful considering the other claims you've made about the game that turned out to not actually be true
4king and escaping in this game isn't reflective of one's skill. Veterans will tell you that. Everyone else in this community will tell you that.
I think you misunderstanding my intention of this interaction. I don't care to convince you, especially considering the previous contents of your posts in this thread. You showcased several misconceptions and some flat out lies trying to talk about how the game is like this and that and it turns out to be dubious assumptions or simply not true to fit your own confirmation bias. I'm merely illustrating your train of thought for saying the game doesn't require skill isn't really as sound as you want to market it to be
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Refer to the above. People keep saying it's wrong but that's not what the dictionary says
Do you lot have any sources to back up your definition of skill? I'm truly curious if it's anything but a personal interpretation of what you want skill to be qualified as. I have no problem being corrected.
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The game itself is relatively easy, but it's a PvP game where you play against other human beings and not dumb AIs. Just because of that it requires a lot of tactical decisioning and prediction. Imo people underestimate the skill needed because there is no competitive mode, but even chess can seem easy if played against "casuals".
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while I don't think tru3 is correct, I do see his point.
a game like street fighter for instance, requires game knowledge, obviously, but requires a lot more skill.
while dbd requires skill, but requires a lot more game knowledge.
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"I think you misunderstanding my intention of this interaction. I don't care to convince you, especially considering the previous contents of your posts in this thread. You showcased several misconceptions and some flat out lies trying to talk about how the game is like this and that and it turns out to be dubious assumptions or simply not true to fit your own confirmation bias. I'm merely illustrating your train of thought for saying the game doesn't require skill isn't really as sound as you want to market it to be."
"Your claim that you're on par with streamers with over 4000 hours is still yet to be verified and at this point doubtful considering the other claims you've made about the game that turned out to not actually be true."
"4king and escaping in this game isn't reflective of one's skill. Veterans will tell you that. Everyone else in this community will tell you that."
So would you care to explain to me how my argument is founded on less stable ground than yours or are you just going to hurl insults at me? Where are your hard facts and statistics? Are we not both just presenting our opinions here?
"Hours are not the end all be all of defining skill, but it's a general correlation, much as is rank. People often say rank means nothing, but yet complain about mismatched matchmaking. You can't have it both ways. Hopefully MMR fixes that, but the mixmatched match making doesn't negate anything about how it takes skill to play this game, and the general pattern that it takes people hundreds of hours to even begin being competent."
"But I will repeat myself again: winning isn't the definition of skill in this game. There are tonnes of games out there where skill isn't defined by winning or completing the game and DBD is one of them"
I'd prefer if you kept the discussion civil but it seems as though all you want to do now is patronize me. Do you, by any chance have proof that hours and rank are "general correlations" to skill? If anything I'm the only one to have any sort of evidence with those screenshots but sure, call my claims "dubious" and say I'm lying without anything to back those claims up.
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That’s the thing. It’s not an easy game. The CONCEPT is simple to understand. But the complexities laying underneath the concept is in the staggeringly high numbers.
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You're using the definition incorrectly. That's a definition of a skill, not whether or not something requires skill. It would be like arguing unskilled labour and skilled labor are the same thing because technically everything is a skill so there's no such thing as unskilled labour. Conflating the two means we're talking about 2 separate things.
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It's a mix. DBD requires a certain about of skills with dodging, timing things, mind games, certain killer abilities, etc....
It however does mostly just require game sense and map knowledge however; things just based around playing a lot or "studying" up on the game a lot.
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This is simple. This game does take skill, but the bar to be good is very low compared to other games that take more to master- like Quake, Starcraft, or Street Fighter. It's not even close.
I know people like to talk about game sense, awareness, prediction.. all the stuff that you need in other competitive games, but there's so many visual and audio cues, and random variables, that it takes away from the difficulty of the game. If you want to talk about balance, that's something else, but this game is easy to learn. May take some people time to be real good at it, but that's not hard to do either.
Now there is something to be said about just bad gamers in general. This game attracts a LOT of casual types and some of those don't want to or CAN'T get better, so take that for what it's worth.
And---I know Tru3 is a competitive gamer at heart and I'm sure when he says what he does, it's coming from that viewpoint (and again, balance issues aside).
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I usually just take those "it doesn't take skill/the game is too easy" comments as the condescending elitist tripe they sound like and move on. Not worth giving any air.
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A lot of DbD is extremely easy, mostly survivor. It doesn't take a genius game master to beat nearly every killer, it takes VC, a little basic co-ordination, and predropped pallets/massive W holding. Same with killer, just equip Freddy with PGTW, Thrilling, Sloppy and Corrupt and you can just mindlessly hold W at survivors for most trials, you don't even need to know how to loop. It's not quite as easy as cheesing it as a survivor, but it's as close as it gets.
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I'm not using it incorrectly. Saying a type of labour is unskilled is simply a way of referring to it having a lack of specialised skill, particularly in an area of work, not having no skill in general. If the game didn't require a considerable amount of skill then there wouldn't be such blatant tiers of skill in this game, and there would be no issues with rainbow matchmaking let alone the need for MMR if the game was so easy, and subsequently would mean that the disparity between someone who is relatively inexperienced game time wise compared to someone who is heavily experienced in that same regard would be almost identical in terms of performance. The reality is that they are not.
What you subjectively deem as being good enough to be labelled as skill is besides the point. It is actually skill at the end of the day and there's no arguing that. If you want to infantalise and boil it down, the talent required in video games amounts to pure button mashing and mouse moving. You have children who aren't even old enough to graduate primary school who are very proficient at FPS games and fighting games and who are able to pick up these skills by playing casually, and that alone showcases how simple it is to get "skilled" at any video game, and how people only subjectively hype up and demean games according to their own bias. This applies to the games that people often want to say requires skill such as Valorant/Tekken/Street Fighter/Overwatch etc.
What determines skill in this game isn't whether or not you 4k or even escape, and that's in the game mechanics itself. You can get a 4k and still lose a pip depending on how you play. You can escape a game and lose a pip depending on how you play.
The end point is, if this game was so easy, why is it taking you all so long to get good at it? Not everyone is a competitive player but if the game was this easy then it should be accessible to be good for all casual players, but yet most people aren't good. So what gives?
It really is funny how much nerds want to fight about whose button mashing is the hardest to do lol
No one insulted you, I just questioned the authenticity of what you said considering you posted some blatantly incorrect statements. Such as probably not even 0.5% of the playerbase or whatever having more than 50 hours even though this is blatantly not true and just your own superimposition of your thoughts onto the game and trying to pass it off as fact, which I directed you not telling the truth about that by sourcing steam statistics showing a plethora of achievements which cannot be achieved in the time span you listed, as well as by a much larger playerbase than what you listed.
I think the discussion has been going fine. You made outlandish claims and you got corrected on it, so yes I'm going to treat what you say with some suspicion.
You're kind of grasping for straws here. First of all, general correlation =/= absolute correlation. Secondly, if you want a source for some common sense knowledge then you will have to refer to Google for that one, I'm not spoon feeding you. It's not hard to understand that generally more time spent into practising something renders an outcome of becoming prone to being better at it over time, as opposed to not doing it at all or virtually not doing it at all. Play time in this game translates to practice. And I made sure to say generally because this isn't always the case that someone becomes good in general regardless of their playtime, but particularly in accordance to their hours.
Also, I didn't see your "proof" in your pictures before of you going against streamers--you edited it after I read it. You made this weird goalpost that you're for some reason pretending that I said and I never did. I've said multiple times thus far 4king/escaping =/= inherently having skill. I never made the statement people of that calibre can never lose a game. Specifically Tofu (don't know who the other guy is) who doesn't even play seriously on stream in the first place and generally is just looking at chat, ######### with a flashlight (which shocker he had one), and/or using Head On. Kind of weird, and to many extents desperate-looking, how you took at best a few games of people ######### around on stream and thought your skill was basically equivalent to them. Big yikes
So on top of the lying, there's dishonest paraphrasing of what I said, on top of simply putting words in my mouth. What a trainwreck of an argument holy scheisse
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Button mashing? Heheh. Ok, I see where you're coming from.
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It kinda reminds me of fighting games.
Easy to learn, hard to master.
Like sure everyone can run in a cirle around a object. But to know the exact amount of times you can run around based on the distance of the killer and to know that if you make use of the tile next to the one you are on you can make it even harder to chase you isn't as easy anymore.
People who say this game is easy are the same people that would say fighting games are all about mashing buttons
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The skill learning curve aint that bad, some killer aside, other than that, it mostly knowledge about looping and chase.
Take a M1 killer and perkless survivor for example. Once you learn the easy skillcheck, the game just about pressing M1 near gens then gate, what hard is looping killer and that just knowledge, you can't do some hyper-cool skill trick to get speed, you just need to mindgame each other
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DbD is very easy, mechanically speaking, but it's not intuitive. Like learning survivor and killer movement, how the objectives progress, and any killer mechanics are very simple and only require a very basic knowledge of games, but knowing how to play against good players and proper survivor and killer gameplay (the things that aren't clearly explained to the player) is when it can get challenging for some people and you're basically required to watch some guides or streams to know what to do.
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It just depends on the player, some people can pick the game up easy and others may take longer to get to grips with it.
Time in the game will always help though just for memorising maps, tiles and even totem spawns giving you an advantage over other players.
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Not to derail the thread too much, but I'm genuinely curious what is it about Freddy that makes something like this feasible compared to any other M1 killer? (Or is the general idea there just that x strong killer + y strong perks gives same result)
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There is hard and there is time consuming, they usually hold hands but not always, plucking an entire field one grass at a time is not that hard but it will take you months.
DBD once you realize certain things like how to run the tiles and how to exploit somebody else mistakes its not THAT hard but taking notice of that by yourself can take time, especially if you face bad players who wont exploit your mistakes so you cant learn from them.
Basically he has a massive base kit with no drawbacks, has one of the best stealths in the game, he can slow Survivors like Clown but doesnt need to recharge, can close loops with traps like Hag and Trapper but doesnt stop to set them and cant be deactivated, can traverse the map in seconds like Hillbilly and Blight but doesnt get stunned and the CD is very short, has a passive inbuilt slowdown like Jigsaw, less lethal but way more time consuming and not RNG based (the clock will be ALWAYS be the one further away), no TR if awake, short stature makes it harder to locate him, he is 115% etc.
Long story short, he does what the rest do (sometimes even better) with no drawbacks at all, imagine Clown could teleport, no need to recharge bottles, stealth outside of his TR and a mechanic that forces you to go to the ends of the world to get rid of it, thats almost like Freddy.
P.D. Wraith stealth got buffed recently and now its better but until those 2 buffs Freddy stealth was superior than his and that was his only power so go figure, you couldnt see Freddy outside of 32 yards while Wraith glimmered and being so short it was hard to see him anyway inside that radius unless he was in a open yard, even when asleep.
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Its mostly because of you can do flashy plays in shooters that are very easy to comprehend even for people who have no clue about the game which makes them easier to point to when thinking about something skillful. But yea dbd is a difficult game and with its insane rng you have always room for improvement its just unfortunately not rewarded past a certain point.
Id say in a weird way dead by daylight is close to a strategy game when it comes to what kind of skillset you need to succeed.
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Both examples will be completely obliterated by people who know what they are doing. Against casual players it is enough but to say its all you need is just dishonest.
The game is mechanically very easy but to be constantly winning you need experience and gamesense.
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I have found that in general, gamers have a tendency to be only referring to purely Mechanical Skill when they talk about how high skill something is or isn't. This applies to DBD as well.
The proof is in which killers are considered high skill. Nurse, Blight, Huntress. Those 3 are indeed the most mechanically demanding killers in the game. Nurse in particular. If you aren't landing your Blinks, Nurse is completely useless. Judging purely by mechanical skill, yes, DBD is overall a very low skill game. WASD movement, holding M1, and the generous hitboxes for most things means that the mechanical skill required to play DBD is fairly low.
Here's the thing though, what DBD does require is an absolutely staggering amount of situational awareness and game knowledge. I could easily argue that Nurse in particular is heavily lacking in those aspects of skill. When should Nurse use her blinks? The answer is "Basically always". Judging whether a Survivor is at a tile that's too strong to handle right now isn't a thing you need to do as Nurse because she completely bypasses windows and pallets. Much like most snipers in FPS games, a Nurse with good mechanics can use mechanical skill to bludgeon her way through... anything really. Also, a decent chunk of streamers are willing to admit this about Nurse. Not in those words of course, but they say things like "If you're playing Nurse, you're not playing DBD. You're playing Nurse's game."
tl,dr: DBD is only an easy game if you look at only the mechanical skill required and nothing else.
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I started the game in August. Let me tell you, it's a steep learning curve. That "tutorial" goes over the basics and buttons, but hardly goes over the meat & bones of the game. I remember other games have more advanced tutorials (think complex fighting combos, guard techniques, etc.).
I wish tutorial let you play with base perks to understand game more or popular perk combos with no dlc. Or even a perk build of the week would be interesting.
Game would seem easy to pick up (by rough design sure where you chase/hit or watch screen for skill checks, but in reality we know it's different), but its one of those games where you pick up more as you learn (how to loop, mind games, great/bad perk builds, etc.)
I learned most of what I know from streamers (OhTofu and gamrplay reviews, no perk builds, were so helpful). I was a rank 14 before rank reset, so I'm definitely getting there lol
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A lot of it has to do with what you face in game on a regular basis and what you're trying to achieve as a player.
A lot of players are more casual and are content to exist in a trial even when they have 5000+ hours.
I know other players with 1000 or fewer hours who have played comp for half of their hours, and they're more skilled than many players with triple the amount of hours.
Part of it comes down to effort, but sometimes you simply don't know what you don't know. DbD matchmaking doesn't exactly give you consistently thrilling match ups. Having one or two teammates not even trying or a killer out of their mind doesn't exactly create an environment for improvement.
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His snares make looping impossible and are the easiest thing ever to use, and his ability to instantly teleport to a generator with Pop means he has constant, free map pressure because he's always chasing someone and also regressing gens.
Other m1 killers actually have to play M1 killer. Freddy doesn't, which is why I don't even consider him an m1 killer.
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The first one no, because that's what competitive DbD is all about, the second one yes, but only against said aforementioned competitive teams.
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And that's my point. You can't match unskilled labour and skilled labor together just because they both use the word skill in the same vein you can't say the definition of a skill describes what counts as a skill means that everyone is wrong when they say the game doesn't take skill. You're combining colloquial meaning of skill with a dictionary version just describing what is a skill. If all you're going to say is that anything counts as a skill by definition, therefore dbd takes skill than we've hit an impasse. Walking counts as a skill. Therefore, going down the street takes skill. Excellent.
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Except it is objectively wrong when someone says DBD requires no skill in both technicality and colloquially, and subsequently it's superimposing their subjective perception of the game which is not an objective truth.
It's not like a real sport that requires actual physical robustness as well as game knowledge and subsequently skill, which is actually showcasing difficulty to obtain proficiency in at a top level and to keep performing so.
At the end of the day, no game is too hard. It's simply button mashing and it's a bunch of nerds arguing whose button mashing is the hardest which is really laughable
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And that's where you're wrong. Colloquially, we're clearly not talking about the same thing. You're saying by definition, technically everything is a skill, therefore dbd takes skill. In the same vein that counting to ten is a skill therefore counting technically takes skill. Meanwhile, people are saying that in terms of skills, whatever unclear metrics that they're judging, dbd is not skillful.
Your only merit so far is that your right that it is a subjective opinion as to what counts as skill. A 1 year old counting to 10 is skillful to me but a 30 year old isn't but that's based on my own selected criteria. In my eyes, dbd when compared to everything I've played and experienced is not a skillful game. However, saying that your criteria for skillful play is objective is also incorrect. It's not objective either, since you've subjectively chosen your own criteria on what counts as skill.
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TLDR, response to title:
I think of it like when someone who plays dark souls regularly would say "oh that boss is easy", they just mean its easier than slave knight Gael so they only died 4 times on it in the first run. Once you get in the hours of practice, things you've done before start to seem easy.
Same for this game. Once you get in your 200~ hours, you are experienced enough to feel comfortable with any kind of opponent, you have game plans and contingencies, and certain aspects become easy because its expected.
This game doesn't have a linear progression that constantly challenges you in new ways like the soulsborne series. Its the same stuff, over and over, with limited variations to what can be expected.
I know, I said TLDR and then wrote a bunch. I'm just getting reading fatigue after spending a bunch time on the forum, I need to go to bed haha
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Honestly Dead By Daylight does have some skill to it, but the skill ceiling to the game is very low not gonna lie. There are certain killers who take a lot of skill of learning like Nurse and Blight, but killers such as Trapper or Myers more so require game knowledge. Compare DBD to a fighting game, and obviously fighting games require so much time, effort, and lots of skill put into it if you're gonna be good at all the characters. DBD can only come close to doing that with Nurse, but other than that DBD doesn't possess a high skill ceiling compared to a fighting game.
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Tru is right in sense that game knowledge will make you learn the base of the game and help you learn to play it correctly much faster than if you don't have any idea about how things work.
But it's easier for a player that was here for at least 2-3 years because we didn't have that much perks and power to learn and to verse. The game will get harder and harder for new players because there are so many Realms, Killer's powers and perks know, that it will take a long time to be familiar with it. And that's without taking in count the playing knowledge, how does the redlight work, how does vaulting work, etc the base mechanics of the game.
Yes it's a pretty basic game : 1v4, 1 hunt and 4 work together or against each other to escape, which both requires few mouse or keyboard actions. BUT with the amount of informations you have to process in a single game, and the fact that every single game is different, (because killer is never the same, can be played differently by every player, don't bring the same perks or addons etc), the game has a a slow learning curve. That's why it takes hundred of hours to get competent, and that number will never stop growing.
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