losing add ons when you escape is just dumb
i get the whole 'but killers are guaranteed to lose their addons no matter what' but seriously the addons i have dont carry my game, my medkit addons dont impact my game as much as iri head and infantry belt or tuft of hair and tombstone or literally any iridescent addon
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I beg to differ.
Add-ons like Medkit and Toolbox speed add-ons can give survivors that last few seconds that could've been the end of the match for the killer.
And of course it isnt as powerful as the killer's add-ons. Because there is four survivors.
Imagine if 4 survivors brought items with add-ons that are as powerful as a killer's add-ons.
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The only time I think add-ons should be kept is when charges aren't used. If my med-kit is at 100% then I shouldn't lose my medical scissors and abdominal dressings.
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I can agree with this. I do hate playing with farming killers when I brought items with add-ons. It just becomes wasted.
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The change only makes sense on the surface and if you don't think about it.
With how little Survivors earn compared to Killers and how many items and addons there are compared to killers, it definitely feels like it was a nerf made for the sake of nerfing something instead of it being changed out of necessity.
Either survivor BP gains need to be raised if not equal or the change needs to be reverted, it just feels awful to use addons now given how rarely you use a full item.
also i play both sides at reds so don't bother calling me a toxic survivor main
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Styptics are just as gamechanging as most iri add-ons for killer.
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Yeah, perhaps one individual survivor's addons aren't as impactful as the killers', but when you consider that the killer is going against 4 different survivors, and that power can potentially be multiplied by up to 4x, it makes sense why addons would be eaten up. At least to me.
I personally feel like DbD is too centered around add ons and upgrades like that anyway. I feel like addons and moris and stuff should be a treat that you bring into a game as a bonus, or at the bare minimum, something that spices up your gameplay and changes something (like Hag for example, having her bodyblocker addon). It feels like there's just constant pressure to bring the best things because if you don't, you could end up running into a fully stacked killer with a mori and stuff as survivor, or run up against a fully stacked team of survivors when you're going addon-less as killer or something. So in that regard, I like the fact that things get eaten up at the end of the game. That way people don't just keep using the same things all the time.
If items and addons and offerings didn't tend to just be straight upgrades rather than game changing things, I would be more okay with them being kept. Just the same way I wouldn't want a Huntress just bringing her infantry belts every game or anything, I wouldn't want a survivor getting to keep their green tier charge capacity addons for their purple toolboxes every game either.
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Wasnt going to call you one, but I feel like saying you're red rank doesn't matter much considering how little rank impacts the difficulty of the match on either side.
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Im gonna paste my reply from the other thread before the "Bringing in line" argument pops up here too:
" To bring survivors in line with Killer addons "
This doesn't work either as Killer earns VASTLY more BP.
Think of it like this:
As Huntress, lets say I run Infantry Belt and Begrimed Hatchets - 12k Loadout
As Survivor, I run a Purple Flashlight, Green Battery, and Low Amp - 15k Loadout
Now, as Huntress with BBQ, I can earn around 50-60k, a 38k Profit minimum
As Survivor, average games net around 18-25k assuming no WGLF and I escape with my flashlight, thats still only a 9k profit on the low end, 3k if I die.
The concept of "bringing in line with killers" doesn't work when you factor in logic
Its just math folks
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moar liek "using" add ons is dumb, heck items in general, just forget about them, you dont need them
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Styptics, BNPs etc. are consumed upon use anyway.
And btw, the comparison to iri addons specifically is laughable, considering that many killer iri add ons are gamebreaking and those that aren't have lower rarity addons that are even more powerful. Maybe you would have had a point with old Styptic, but that and the Syringe have already been nerfed.
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Why do you assume BBQ+Chili, but NOT WGLF? That doesn't seem fair. Or hey, IDK. Ace in the hole?
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Because BBQ is a core perk, WGLF is not
Not only that, but getting 4 stacks of WGLF is much more difficult than BBQ, Im writing based on an average game and most people opt out of running those two perks
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They might, but they already have a "cost" attached to them if used, which is losing the entire medkit. Add-ons getting this kind of penalty, which arent nearly as impactful as Styptics or Syringes, is pretty dumb.
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Wire Spool, Gel Dressings, Gauze Roll, Self Adherent Wrap, Key Add-On's, Map Add-On's.
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I agree with this. If you didn't fully use the item, you should keep add-ons if you escape. You should also keep them, death or escape, used or not, if you burn a White Ward.
You can get an Ebony at least once every other blood web guaranteed as p3 50 killer. Especially true if you play Huntress or Billy.
You'd be lucky to get a Styptic Agent once every 6 blood webs as p3 50 survivor.
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I feel like the accurate comparison would be keys.
And they are FAR MORE rare than anything on either killer or survivor.
I have 5 moris on Spirit alone and I havent levelled her up in ages but I only got 2 Skeleton Keys on Zarina and I've been trying to get all the perks onto her.
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I have 30+ mori's on Spirit and Huntress, 35+ Iri Head on Huntress, and 40+ Mother Daughter Ring on Spirit.
If I wanted to dump BP back into that same killer after every game, and I run BBQ every game (which I usually do), I could play every single game from now until the end of time as MDR/Amulet Spirit, or Iri Head/Belt Huntress. It wouldn't even be a challenge.
This not including the 25+ Black Wards I have on each as well.
Doing this as survivor, however, is IMPOSSIBLE. You cannot play every game with even a brown medkit and the same add-ons. Even if you run WGLF and dump all your BP back into that survivor, eventually you will use up all your add-ons, and (through death) you will eventually lose all your medkits too. It's simple math when survivors have 73 possible objects to acquire while killers only have 20, AND killers earn way more BP on the average game than survivors, BBQ/WGLF or not.
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I will say though, you have way more add-ons than I do and I play this game everyday.
So I just have to say "Share pls"
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I main Spirit so I dump a lot of BP into her to get every perk. I used to main Huntress and did the same, but after some DLC's there are a couple perks I'm missing (nothing I care about though). I have about 3k hours and have been playing since the game came out on Xbox (I take long breaks though I should have probably twice that if I played every day).
By comparison, I main Kate and have her p3 50 all perks, yet I only have at MOST 15 Skeleton Keys and 10 Rainbow Maps. I've used all her offerings, I kept one of each of the maps, fog, coins, and luck though. I could play maybe 200 games with items and add-ons, but even if I dump all my BP back into her it's not gonna last forever. If I did this with Spirit, MDR/Amulet would last forever.
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I just look at my items now there so pretty as they sit and not being used XD
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You nailed it perfectly. They probably wanted to nerf survivors in some way after all the backlash they got from killers and then they came up with this dumb idea. White ward not protecting your addons if you escape is also intentional apparently. Getting rewarded for dying, 10/10 design choice.
This change would work only if they reduced the amount of addons survivors have in my opinion. There are already tons of useless survivor addons so it wouldn't be hard to do at all.
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I find it weird to even bring items, I just find them in the map and if I escape I keep it and if not oh well.
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ikr, why nerf survivor bp gains when they're already so much lower? Just nerfing survivors to say they did it probably. Nobody asked for this and no one would cry out in agony if it was reverted. Hopefull an add-on buff will come to compensate, or at least they might make white ward do what it says it does.
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I'd rather play killer against full engineer's with BNPs than play survivor against iri head and infantry belt. Probably over crack billy, royal doc, silent wraith, or pinky finger clown too. Even the strongest survivor setups don't completely break the game(except for keys but I excluded those and moris).
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Should a killer keep his mori if he doesnt use it in a game?
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the game gives survivors enough resources on maps for them to almost indefinitely, and in some cases actually indefinitely, run the killer.
You barely even need perks even at rank 1 survivor. If 4 survivors could afford to bring the best items plus the best add ons every game, this game would be way more survivor biased than it already is. You don't even need to spend bloodpoints to get items, just find the chests in the levels, or you could even run the item perks to get fully kitted rare items from chests, you don't need to run 4 second chance perks to survive.
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I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here. Your math is automatically invalidated if you refuse to factor in BP multipliers for both sides. The ACCURATE numbers are 36-50k, compared to the 50-60k of Killers, which is completely reasonable considering the higher effort required for Killer games. Furthermore, the survivor build only costs 15k for the first match, assuming you get out. All further matches have a 9k BP price tag.
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- I literally did factor it in: As Survivor, average games net around 18-25k assuming no WGLF and I escape with my flashlight, thats still only a 9k profit on the low end, 3k if I die.
- I wrote based on an average game, I avoided strong addons for BOTH sides, hence why I didn't mention Iri head either.
- The four total gains are all seperate, originally this idea worked because survivors could keep their addons but killers couldn't. Now that both sides lose their stuff, the net gains for survivors are even lower, this was explained in my post btw lmao
each of these points were also stated by another person on that thread. Also not not doubling both, MOST PEOPLE DO NOT USE WGLF, MOST DO RUN BBQ.
this is based on the average game, but you keep refusing to accept that for whatever reason
it’s like talking to a brick wall lmao
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"I don't like running WGLF"
"Bro why are Killers getting more BP this game sucks man"
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Styptics are consumed upon use regardless
Because WGLF is literally a waste of a perk slot and BBQ is not
This was not a problem before the update and will not be a problem if it is changed again.
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people dont like WGLF because theres no game use and is least impactful perk in the game and its also way harder to get 4 stacks on WGLF than bbq and bbq allows you to instantly find another survivor after hooking someone and keep survivors off gens
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I'm just saying they can't complain about Killers getting more BP while refusing to run the perk that gives them more BP
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Lets see:
BBQ - Aura Read, which can be really good on some Killers, quite useful on a bunch of Killers and will not do much on other Killers. But still, it does something.
WGLF - nothing.
BBQ - Get 4 Stacks by simply playing the game and do what you have to do anyway.
WGLF - Either rush for Unhooks while competing with 2 other Survivors for each Unhook or take unneccesary Protection Hits which make no sense other than giving your Stacks.
Yeah, totally compareable.
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It doesn't excuse refusing to run it then complaining about no BP at the same time. You have an option, even if it isn't as good.
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I disagree with this. The difference between survivors and killers and how they earn BP is pretty simple; I have hundreds of items on my survivor, because I only have ONE survivor. I have every perk on him (<3 David), and have completed webs on him for add sorts of goodies. My killers, however, don't even always have the best perks for their builds, just because there are so many more perks and add ons to get for killers. When you remember that when playing killer, bp is meant to be spread across multiple killers, it makes sense that killers earn more BP.
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Also, for the BBQ versus WGLF, there are a few difference;
WGLF is free, and available to everyone. BBQ has to be bought.
Aura reading is readily counterable, so while BBQ does have a slight advantage over WGLF there, they both exist mostly to increase BP.
I personally find WGLF to be the easier perk to get stacks with, but I am a David main who plays David how you are supposed to; all in, balls out. I do the unhooks and take protection hits like a boss.
As for survivor versus Killer add ons, as stated above, I have way more items and add ons for David than any one killer because I only spend my survivor BP on ONE survivor, but to play all killers effectively, you have to spread it out. That being said, I think they need to increase objective and survival BP. Survival, particularly. I don't even know how you hit 8k Survival.
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I'm not liking the change to how items are kept by survivors at 0% charge.
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I agree with this. Maybe if you had an emergency med-kit and you only used the 16 charges that were already on the med-kit you wouldn't use the abdominal dressing or self adherent wrap.
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You post only take into account OTPs
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Prove thyself also gives bp gain and encourages gen rush
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You would still have to lose those because they both provide bonuses to your healing speed. The abdominal dressings completely counter Thana at max stacks or Sloppy Butcher. Both of the addons you listed being put on an Emergency medkit causes you to heal like 80% faster than normal. That negates Sloppy and Thana together or just Coulrophobia.
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I'd prefer if the BP cost of items and add-ons was just reduced for survivors in general.
Any green, yellow or brown items and add-ons should just be 1000 BP cheaper to start with.
Increase the cost of perks by 1000 each to make up for it.
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Yeah I made a mistake in this post, I meant Gel Dressings not Abdominal. I think it's pretty fair to lose add-ons that provide extra healing speed so I agree with you on that.
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Make item add-ons great again.
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