give killer second chance perk
would it be balanced?
Comments
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Isn't that NOED? :D
It seems to make people SUPER cranky though...
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They got plenty of instadowns, which is kinda the equivalent for killers.
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Give killers a perk with a 40 second cool down.
Juggernaught
Once every 40 seconds press E to lunge forward. During this lunge the killer is immune to all stuns and breaks through pallets but can't turn
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Some survivors perks leave you in the broken status effect or some others can be used only once, they have their "downsides" too. Some killer instadowns have "downsides" and some others aren't even a perk, they have it in their base kit.
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Technically we have many already.
Bloodwarden, No Way Out (new Trickster Perk), Remember Me - All perks that help keep survivors stuck in the trail once gens have been finished.
NOED, Rancor - Gives killer the ability to instant down when all gens are finished.
Fire Up and Coup De Grace - Give killer boosted strength for survivors completing gens.
Hex: Undying - Saves a hex totem from being cleansed once
The main problem with Killer 2nd chance perks is that making a build that works when gens are finished is just not a good strategy compared to building a build that helps you win chases, slowdown generators, or gives you information on where survivors are.
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Have to disagree.
DS: You can miss it.
UB: Only used once.
Deliverance: You’re broken for an amount of time thus being an easy target for the Killer.
Lets not pretend all Survivor “second chance” perks are always viable.
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I was about to comment these perks so thanks for that.
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Deliverance require you to have a safe unhooked and not be on your second hook yourself.
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Don't forget Spirit Fury, especially when coupled with Enduring 😁
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A second chance perk for a killer would be being able to damage a repaired gen or something.
I always thought to myself why the killer didn't simply smack a repaired gen to keep the survivors from leaving. I'm like what a moron.
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Camping tunneling and Slugging ... all require no perk slots, and have no downside.
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Only survivors are allowed second chances. If a killer has one it's a crutch, overpowered, problematic and annoying apparently.
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As others have said instadown perks more or less fit this bill. Make your choice sort of fills it by allowing you to apply pressure at the hook without being there, Dragons Grip counters stealth jukes while breaking a generator, Iron Maiden does the same. Noed has counterplay but a good killer applying pressure properly won't give you time to cleanse all totems, especially not solo. You just don't see these perks very often because there are objectively better perks and they're more situational.
That new Trickster perk with the exit gate fits the bill pretty perfectly considering it punishes the survivors for doing their objective like a lot of survivor perks.
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The killer needs counterplay though.. sure this is an asym game but the point of it is that it's still "fair". The killer has (atleast) 1-3 chances (So survivors) to use these "second chance perks". Devour: can down a survivor, and mori them whenever, downside is that it's a hex, but undying works with it now. Imagine if there was a perk or addon that acts like these "second chance perks" that doesn't have a downside... cough cough iri head, belt huntress cough cough. See where I'm going?
Also the examples you suggested as "real second chance perks" are just TERRIBLE;
Every 80s you get a free hit if you miss? Removes any skill in this game, even if there was a range it'd still be too overpowered.
Also instantly killing a survivor on death hook and need to get them downed? Seems like a waste of a perk instead of using mori. To make this an "actual second chance perk" as you call it, make this 1st hook and it seems that we're back at the old mori days.. not good.
Every insta down perk or ability NEEDS counterplay, or else this game just creates a worse meta than at this moment, it will not be healthy for the game: Every game will consist of DS/UB and the killers with their insta down no counterplay perks / addons, do you really want that?
DS is gonna get a nerf, OoO is gonna be reviewed soon too, those crutch perks aren't gonna look as appealing soon.
But a good point why survivors need these crutch perks is because a killer is (almost) always gonna win a chase, which leads to "easy" tunneling, DS is the perfect counter to keep the game healthier, the offense part is just not good, hence the nerf! Unbreakable is to punish slugging, aka wasting survivor's time because they made one mistake... It's just not fun, isn't it?
If you can actually suggest a(n) (existing) perk that has no counterplay, can be considered as a second chance perk but is "fair" to use by the majority, I'll gladly discuss it.
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Was about to give a proper reply till i read this "once every 80s if they miss a swing it hits anyway", then i was like "nah, not worth it" :)
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I faced a trapper who got 1k and that was before his noed activated, he had one guy hooked and I had left a dull totem just in case that match so while one guy went for the exit I went to that totem with my small game took it out and unhooked with bt for a 3 person escape. Noed is a ######### perk definitely not second chance, it's not like ######### like dh which literally has invincibility frames.
Those who cry about noed are the same types who run this combination iron will, ds, bt and dh or something very similar.
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Noed is the most like a second chance perk for killer.
But what ideas do you have for one if they added a new one into the game?
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I don’t think anything is worse than NOED. I think everyone can use whatever damn perks they want to. The sooner people get that, the sooner the complaining will stop on both sides. However I’m not gonna pretend that 2nd chance Survivor perks don’t have any obvious downsides when they do.
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Which is another downside.
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The concept of a killer second chance perk is hard because killers and survivors have severe goal asymitry. People often talk about NOED as one but it REALLY isn't.
You can't make one that is 1:1 (A killer second chance perk probably wouldn't be once per game) but it would be something like "Every 120 seconds, after dropping a chase, aura read the survivor you were chasing for 5 seconds."
It is still... not 1:1, but its a similar idea, a 'do-over' of one of the core dynamics of how you win/lose chases in a way that sorta forces the other side to win the chase all over again. This isn't a well designed perk, but to be fair neither is current DS.
It, funnily enough, would be both way more powerful and way more fair though.
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Not saying it should but what if;
Endurance was activatable- like dead hard. If timed correctly it just flat cancelled a stun instead of reducing it.
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Well to be fair soul guard does need that hex so it does have thw downside of having to leave said hex in play.
The endurance effect well it is only 8s and they still need to be slugged or injured to be healed or picked up to get use out of that effect and then to be fair the killer has to be really close and go after them to get affected by it in those scenario's.
This is why you don't see it as much as others due to it being situational on what the killers uses and how they play to actually get use out of it. Its more of a meme perk tbh.
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I never mentioned any of the perks you are asking me to explain the downsides of. I specifically mentioned DS, UB and Deliverance and I elaborated on why I think they indeed do have downsides.
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that's a cool idea but 40 is by far way too short and also survivors would complain about it since it means pallets are totally worthles,s and tbh, as a killer main, this perk would be totally unfair even if they use BT/dead hard/DS/unbreakable, this perk would be unfair even if it would feel amazing to hit survivors with it
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That doesn't make much sense as that would be meta already since undying already got changed.
Now let's say it does get more popular it makes a lot more sense to actually cleanse totems than let devour get 5 stacks rendering soul guard a dead perk.
That whole scenario also relies on the killer slugging and which again seems strange as hooking gets them stacks. Then of course mori comes into play when downed after 5 stacks so soul guard really isn't a strong perk versus it.
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I think survivors have too many but killers also have a number of second chance perks (although I think they are all weaker mostly)
-noed
-blood warden
-remember me
-tricksters new perk blocking levers
This doesn't include more grey area perks where you could argue a case for it being a second chance perk or practically one
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no ed isnt a second chance perk you have to wait all game for it to be used. Blood warden is a gimmick and so is remmember me. Tricksters new perk yes but its not in the game atm
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Id consider noed as a second chance to kill the survivors that you wetent ablento earlier. There isnt really a 1 for 1 example since both sides have different goals. I don't know what else could be added and considered a second chance perk for killers
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You dead hard for killers seems pretty fair if you ask me
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2nd chance perks are a hot topic because they mitigate survivor failure.
Killers have plenty of perks that do the killer equivalent in terms of winning chases faster, stalling end game, stalling gens, dealing with pallets, and even just finding Survivors.
As someone previously mentioned, the roles and objectives are completely different. This is why the "second chance" perks for killer are all so radically different, even when compared to each other.
If you expect similarly styled perks for both roles when their objectives are so different, you're misunderstanding the design and intent of the whole game.
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the best idea
dead hard equivalent to killer
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pretty much mediocre perks not as good as ds, dh, borrowed time, umb
we need something that is really good as those perks in the second chance category as killer
Post edited by edgardot02 on0 -
dead hard is on killer its blight
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Thing is tho, survivors dont really have a built-in ability to deal with chases, hence they need perks to improve chasing. Most killers have a basekit ability that can massively reduce chase times(long range hits, pre-set traps, gapclosers etc), so their perks need to rely more on slowing the game down rather than focus on chase.
Survivors and Killers literally have an opposite basekit. Which is why you cannot give killers a "second chance" perk based around a chase to give them an easier hook, that would be like giving survivors the ability to finish a generator within 20 seconds alone because they missed a skillcheck.
This is why Pop and DS are compared together, because they directly affect the opponent's objective. This is why Dead Hard would be more equal to Dragons Grip(and why Dragons Grip needs a lower cooldown), because one extends the chase by an additional hit, where the other one reduces the chase by 1 hit. Yet a lot of killers refuse to believe that perks based around generators or unhooking are as good as perks that affect a chase, and why I believe a lot of killer perks are underestimated, and why a lot of survivor perks, like Camaraderie(especially against campers), are also underestimated.
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IDK manm ss=ound like Dead Hard but for killers. Only fair to have the same cooldown.
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Please, do explain how a perk that usually leaves you exposed for up to 60 seconds, almost always with some insanely situational activation, is equivalent to a perk that, say, undoes a massive screw up at the push of a button, rewards genrushing, lets you bodyblock for your rescuer, gives you a free escape after progressing the trial, gives you a guaranteed unhook, lets you get up for free, lets you get up for free with an Endurance effect....
Wow, I really could keep going. But I won't. Generally speaking, instadown perks have nothing in common with seconds chance perks. Survivors get a huge warning they're in play, lots of time to run or hide to avoid the effect, and even then the current meta is still to slam gens while injured anyway so sweaty squads want killers to waste slots on perks like MYC, Dragons Grip, Devour Hope, etc.
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it makes me laugh how sometimes you have to respect ds, Unbreakable, borrowed time, dh.
You don't know if some guy has equipped those perks but most of the time your playstyle is forced as is those perks were there even if no one in the match has equipped those perks.
those perks do something just to exist
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Imagine if they implemented a killer perk that added an entire generator or was able to regress it, even if completed.
That's basically what UB/DS/BT is for survivors in terms of power level.
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Actually no, DS/ all these perks that the killers call ‘second chance perks’ is the equivalent of something like pop or other regression perk.
Lets look at this logically. A killers goal is to kill 4 survivors, these second chance perks slows the death of one of these survivors.
A survivors goal is to get 5 generators done, these regression perks slow the speed at which they get completed.
If a gen is completed, I stays completed. If a survivor is dead, they stay dead.
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Lol if you think everything should be the same for different sides in an assymetrical game then I’m guessing you also think the killers should be the same speed as the survivors? Didn’t think so.
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No, just no.
The killer has to play well to even get to use the most effective generator regression perks. Pop? Need to win chases and get hooks. Ruin? You need to apply effective pressure.
DS, UB, BT? There's almost no requirement to play well, in fact, they reward playing bad and give survivors another opportunity to survive.
If a killer plays bad, Pop/Ruin does nothing. If a survivor plays bad, DS/UB/BT will save them. There's no second chance with Pop/Ruin.
There's no second chance perks for killers except for NOED, because the killer can do literally nothing the entire game but still have the power to secure a kill or two with it.
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Lol no. Again you’re just trying to change what it’s equivalent to which has been discussed many times in this thread and dismissed by the salty killers.
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Ah yes the typical "You're just a salty X Y Z person" to dismiss any argument you can't refute logically.
Next.
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the fact that we all play the same game and get mad at each other is just sad
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Lo I already refuted what you said logically, you’re the one dismissing it and just going back to something that’s been answered by many in this thread already
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So it's ok for survivors to push a button and gain some distance for free. But not killers.
Might want to zip up your flie, your biased is showing.
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Can you not read, I replied to a guy saying they should have something because the other side has something. Not the other way round. You might want to zip up your fly*, your lack of comprehension is showing.
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Blight, Nurse, Hillbilly, Legion, Oni, Hag, Spirit and Wraith would like to have a word with that statement.
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imagine a surv perk that completes 20 secs for a gen if you unhook someone or someone die and you touch the gen in the next 45secs. Survs can use it 11 times (220secs). That’s pgtw
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Or pull the cables out. Or are they connected to the gates via wifi? Lol
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