Let's rebalance Killers!
DISCLAIMER: This is not a serious thread intended for serious conversation. For the most part. This is more of an exercise. A thought experiment. As such, PLEASE fashion your responses accordingly. While serious suggestions are more than welcome, so are ones that would be considered... a bit much. Realistic balance and change isn't the point, as much as it is to see where things lead.
With that out of the way...
CONGRATULATIONS! YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES HAVE BEEN CHOSEN TO REBALANCE KILLERS IN DEAD BY DAYLIGHT!
John Behavior, the owner of Behavior, has hired YOU to work with his son, Jimmy DeadByDaylight, to work on his most popular game, Dead By Daylight! Upon getting hired, you were informed of your mission, which is as follows:
The community of the game feels that Killers are, in their current incarnation, a bit too strong. However, Killers are a big part of the game. As such, they need YOU, yes YOU, to go in and rebalance the game. Your goal is to make changes to Killers, specific or globally. As you do so, remember that players must be willing to play as those Killers, but those Killers must be made more manageable/fun for the Survivors.
1: You CANNOT outright remove the core mechanics of a specific Killer. You CAN change how those mechanics behave. IE: Huntress throws hatchets, you cannot change that. She can, however, throw them slower or less accurately.
2: You CANNOT outright remove perks or their core function. You CAN change how those functions are applied. IE: Barbeque & Chili allows Killers to see Auras upon hooking a Survivor. How many, how far away, and specifics of what they are/aren't doing in order to be detected it open for change. Furthermore, this perk CAN be changed to a Hex.
3: You CANNOT create new global Killer mechanics, but you CAN modify or outright remove them. IE: You may remove Bloodlust as a mechanic, but you cannot create a replacement for it.
4: You CANNOT outright remove a Killer. People pay money for them, and work went into creating them, so they must all stay.
5: You CANNOT outright remove or create any Killer Addons or Offerings, but you CAN modify them.
Remember, players must be willing to play as Killers, but they must be made to make the game feel better for Survivors. How you do this is up to you. At any given time, if you make a single change that is seen as so debilitating for a Killer or all Killers that it becomes clear the Killer(s) would be far too weak, John Behavior and Jimmy DeadByDaylight will send their Judge of Hell (Scoops) and Unholy Executioner (Nea) to remove you from the project, as well as your mortal coil.
Go forth, and rebalance DEAD BY DAYLIGHT!
All changes will be listed here. They come in 3 Categories: Global Killer, Specific Killer, and Killer Perks. This first post will be modified to show the changes made. Scoops may show up to declare a change seeming too drastic. Nea may show up to outright shoot down a change. With a glock.
GLOBAL KILLER
SPECIFIC KILLER
TRAPPER
- Starts with 6 traps
- Bear Traps take longer to disarm
- Lockers allow Trapper to gain traps.
- Any function to pass over a trap without setting it off will cause the trap to become "Inactive." During this time, anyone may pass over it without setting it off. Lasts 6 seconds.
- Maps can only track "Inactive" or closed Bear Traps.
- Escaping a Bear Trap is now based on a set amount of time.
- Disarming a Bear Trap now requires a Skill Check. Failing the Skill Check or cancelling the disarm will trap the Survivor.
- Bear Trap hitboxes have been increased.
WRAITH
HILLBILLY
- Overheat only occurs within 12 meters of a hooked Survivor. Outside of 12 meters, Overheat will cooldown.
NURSE
- The Nurse now moves at 4.4m/s.
- The Nurse can no longer Blink through solid objects.
SHAPE
- The Shape can now Multi-Stalk.
- Charging Evil Within is much slower when Multi-Stalking.
- Addon: Judith's Tombstone - Evil Within 3 requirement slightly lowered. Killing Survivors drains drains Evil Within.
- Addon: Tombstone Piece - The Shape may now drop to Evil Within 1. Charging Evil Within is significantly faster. No longer allows The Shape to kill Survivors.
- The Shape now starts with Evil Within 2. Killer ability button (CTRL on PC) allows The Shape to switch between Evil Within 1 and 2.
- The maximum charge per Survivor for Evil Within is now increased.
HAG
- Phantasm Traps can now be wiped away by Survivors.
- Walking no longer triggers Phantasm Traps.
DOCTOR
HUNTRESS
- Hatchets now have a smaller physics box, which adhere closely to the hatchet model.
CANNIBAL
NIGHTMARE
- When a Generator is completed, the Nightmare's power gains 1 token. The Nightmare may use Dream Projection teleport to any unfinished Generator while he has a token. Using Dream Projection uses 1 token. The Nightmare may only have 1 token at a time.
- Dream Projection no longer has a cooldown by default.
- Dream Projection cannot be cancelled once activated.
- Dream Projection gains a cooldown if the Nightmare has Dream Pallets. No tokens are required for Dream Projection during this.
- Addon: Outdoor Rope, Jump Rope, Swing Chains - These addons can no longer stack with each other or any Perks that would stack with their affects. Instead, whichever addon or Perk supplies the highest % of progression slowdown will be applied. These addons also increase the time on any process to wake up from the Dream World.
- The Nightmare's model has been given longer arms to more accurately represent his lunge distance.
- The Nightmare has been given hid old hand effects when using his power.
PIG
- Increased crouch transition speed.
- Increased crouch movement speed to 4.2 m/s.
- Terror Radius reduced to 28 meters.
- Reverse Bear Trap will now kill a Survivor if they try to leave the trial, regardless of whether or not it is armed.
- Reverse Bear Traps timer run in reverse if the Survivor is in the Dying state.
- The charge time for Ambush Dash reduced to 0.38 seconds, from 0.75 seconds.
- Jigsaw Boxes now give the Pig a notification when a Survivor has gained 50% progress on them.
- Jigsaw Boxes now used normalized RNG instead of picking the correct box upon application of Reverse Bear Trap.
- Addon: Jigsaw's Sketch - Now Rare instead of Ultra Rare.
- Addon: Jigsaw's Annotated Map - Now Uncommon instead of Rare.
- Addon: Interlocking Razor - Now Ultra Rare instead of Rare. Failed Skill Checks on Jigsaw Boxes cause the Survivor to cease interaction with the Jigsaw Box and become Injured.
- Addon: Amanda's Secret - No longer disables the Pig's ability to see the auras of Jigsaw Boxes.
- Addon: Rusty Attachments - Injured Survivors caught in a Reverse Bear Trap suffer from the Mangled and Hemorrhage status until healed.
- Addon: Razor Wires - Now Common instead of Uncommon. Increases the difficulty of all Skill Checks.
- Addon: Last Will - Now Rare instead of Uncommon.
- Addon: Combat Straps - Now Rare instead of Common. Moderately reduces Crouch and Uncrouch transition times. Increases the amount of time the Pigs Terror Radius returns to normal from stealth.
- Addon: Workshop Grease - Moderately increases the chance of Skill Checks while interacting with Jigsaw Boxes.
((( I NEVER WANT TO EDIT PIG AGAIN NOW )))
CLOWN
- Antidote Bottle no longer has an activation period.
- Invigorated now gives 5.2m/s movement speed to the Killer, and 4.6% movement speed to Survivors.
- If Tonic and Antidote clouds mix, they no longer cancel each other out. Instead, the overlapping areas turn gray.
- Gray clouds Expose any Survivor that enters them.
SPIRIT
- The Spirit casts a shadow during the first two seconds of Phasing.
- The Spirit causes Survivors sounds to play at 100% increased volume after hitting them with a basic attack for 120 seconds.
- Movement speed increased from 4.4m/s to 4.6m/s.
LEGION
- Feral Frenzy can now be used to hit the same Survivor multiple times.
- Each hit with Feral Frenzy decreases the duration of Deep Wound by 25%, up to a maximum of 100%.
- Mend time is increased when performed by another Survivor.
PLAGUE
- When an Infected Survivor vomits, they gain the Hindered status for the duration of the vomiting.
- When an Infected Survivor vomits, interactable objects within 6 meters become Infected for 35 seconds. Benefits from Addons.
- Infected Survivors now vault 2% slower.
- Plague no longer uses her fountains to gain Corrupt Purge.
- Plague gains charges to Corrupt Purge as Survivors remain Infected. Charge rate is based on the number of Infected Survivors. Once fully charged, Plague plays a new animation and gains Corrupt Purge.
- Fountains no longer become corrupted.
GHOST FACE
DEMOGORGON
- Increased movement speed when charging up Of the Abyss by 9% to a total of 101%.
- Decreased the time it takes to place a portal to 0.5 seconds.
- Addon: Rat Liver - Slightly increases the the charge up speed of Of The Abyss.
- Addon: Rat Tail - Slightly increases Shred's maximum distance.
ONI
DEATHSLINGER
- ADS time now takes 1 second.
- Deathslingers movement speed increased to 4.6m/s.
- After 1 second of ADS, Deathslingers movement speed reduces to 4.4m/s. After 2 seconds of ADS, Deathslingers movement speed reduces to 4.2m/s.
- Now has adjustable ADS sensitivity.
- Sound cue for Deathslingers aim removed.
- The Redeemers projectile now has a larger hit box, but maintains a small physics box.
- The Speargun's chain durability increased to 120 from 100.
- The Speargun's reload time decreased to 2.5 seconds from 2.75 seconds.
- Missed Speargun hits cause a cooldown of 1.25 seconds from 1.5 seconds.
EXECUTIONER
BLIGHT
- New Mechanic: Cankers.
- If Blight interacts with Cankers, Lethal Rush attack cause the Dying State. This last for 60 seconds.
- If Survivors interact with Cankers, Survivors gain Haste for 60 seconds.
TWINS
TRICKSTER
- Showstopper now ricochets once per throw by default, but only on non-ground terrain.
- Direct hits with Trickster blades cause 1 charge of Laceration. Default ricochet hits cause 0.5 charge of Laceration.
- New Ability: FANFARE - Trickster launches 3 blades in fan shape. Each blade causes 1 charge of Laceration.
- Showstopper and Fanfare can be toggled with Killer Ability Button (CTRL for PC).
- Addon: Trick Blades - Adds additional ricochet to Tricksters blades. Ground ricochet limitation removed. Ricochets cause 1 charge of Laceration. Hits cause by ricochets hitting the ground within 1 meter of a Survivor only cause 0.5 Laceration.
- Main Event is now activated with E. Prompted Interactions cancel the ability.
KILLER PERKS
AGITATION
- Once Killer is hit with a pallet, Killer gains Haste of 5/10/15%. Cooldown of 20/30/40 seconds.
SPIES FROM THE SHADOWS
- Allows Killer to not disturb crows with their presence.
- All crow auras are revealed to the Killer within 12/24/36 meters.
- Disturbed crows are 100% louder for the Killer.
UNNERVING PRESENCE
- Decreases the Great Skill Check zone by 50/75/100%.
BRUTAL STRENGTH
- Destroy dropped Pallets and Breakable Walls, and damage Generators 15/20/25% faster.
Note: If the thread fails to take off or dies, so be it. It's a chance for fun and likely frustration.
Comments
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Guess I'll give it a go why not right...
Ok let's do a trapper his main ability he now starts with 2 traps rather than one and still sees all traps on map within a certain distance however his traps also take a little longer than they currently do to disarm. His perk agitation I would rework so that once he is hit with a pallet and stunned he gains haste of 5,10 or 15% depending on perks level this will have a cool down of 20, 30 and 40 seconds to prevent stacking. His addons i cant think of anything to adapt right now.
This is all i can come up with probably not that great but wanted to give our nice little Trapster some love.
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Jimmy DeadByDaylight:
Are you... buffing a killer? I must be missing the bigger picture, but okay.
Main post updated1 -
one change I was thinking for deathslinger was to give him a similar wind up to huntress (he holds up the gun and takes a deep breath) but let us configure his sensitivity. One of my main problems with him is that his sense is too clunky that quickscoping is 'the' way to play him. Let him flick his shots and let the ringing sound queue you get when he aims at you actually come into play.
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Judge of Hell Scoops:
Breakable Walls are not a killer mechanic specifically, so those are off the table. Adding mechanics to Blight that drastic is pushing it, but I'll allow it. For now.
Jimmy DBD:
Oh hey, charge up time for Deathslinger! I like it! Huntress has a 3 second charge up on her hatchets, so we'll go with that for now. Lemme know if you need that changed! Not sure on the Blight changes, but I like the haste thing. So sure, let's go for it!
Main post updated.0 -
Trapper
Trapper should start the trial with all 6 traps in hand and be able to generally carry all 6 at once.
Escaping a Beartrap should no longer be based on RNG, but take a set amount of time instead.
Disarming a Trap should trigger a Skillcheck that, should the Survivor miss it / stop the action, can trap a survivor.
Trap hitboxes should be increased. they are so small right now that a Survivor can run past a Trap inside a pallet, if its placed slightly too far to the left or right, aswell as jump over a Trap that is placed too close to a window they fastvaulted. That should not be a thing - a Trap is ment to lock down a path, not make it so they can literally just ignore it if it happens to be a milimeter too far to the left.
Additionally, one of these two needs to be addressed aswell: A) rework the new grass textures to make it able to hide traps in tall grass again, B) camouflage Traps more so they can be placed in tall grass again without literally being seen from 50m away.
Unnerving Presence: decreases the size of great skillcheck zones by 50/75/100% aswell. currently UP skillchecks are basically just 50% great skillcheck zones, making it easier to hit them (ironically). The current size of skillchecks shouldnt be shrunk tho, its just that the great success zone should be reduced and replaced with a good success zone.
Bruta Strength: up the numbers to 25%.
im going to keep this at Trapper for now, as he is the killer im most passionate about.
its sad seeing him forgotten all the time and he is really in a desperate need for buffs.
and before anyone says it: no, giving him the Trapper Sack basekit is by far not enough. he should have all 6 traps, anything else is basically useless and an unnecessary downside he has when compared to any other trap based killer.
the only time he should have to traverse the map to get his traps is to recollect them after he already placed them down somewhere.
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I feel like 3 seconds would be too harsh, but I do understand where it comes from. I was thinking maybe in the middle of her 1.25 - 3 second. what about 2 seconds?
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PLAGUE
A few Buffs I recommend for Plague to streamline her ability without making it too Oppressive:
- Survivors suffer the Hindered status whenever they vomit for the duration of the vomiting (roughly 1.5-2 seconds). This is a small and periodic de-buff to survivors that makes the Plague more of a threat in a chase but not so much that she becomes OP or too oppressive.
- Also while a survivor vomits, they have a 6m AoE that infects everything within its radius. This allows the sickness to spread throughout the maps less predictably and reduces the workload on the Plague herself. Currently survivors spread the sickness to each other by rescuing an infected survivor, working on a gen with a fully infected survivor or healing a downed infected survivor, all of which require direct interactions, otherwise the Plague has to infect them and all objects herself every time. Adding this will make the sickness spread feel more like an actual Plague, apply more pressure to the map for her, make the add-on's that increase infection time on objects more noticeable, increase the chances of the sickness spreading to other survivors, and help her gain the contagious (25bp) scoring events more often.
- Allow her to channel corrupt fountains from afar. Like Freddy's Gen Teleportation power, but I can't decide If I like the idea of her Teleporting to corrupt fountains which uses it up without giving her corrupt purge, or if she should simply be able to gain Corrupt Purge from across the map at the expense of her movement speed for 5 seconds. On one hand, If survivors cleanse they give her either incredible mobility or the best ranged attack in the game making it her choice in how to use them, on the other, she doesn't have to go to the fountains anymore and can gain her Corrupt Purge right after initiating a chase while giving survivors a small window of time to try and find cover, or gain distance from her. Either way would be a buff that saves her precious time.
With these 3 changes, she would make life a little more difficult for survivors and really emphasize the choices survivors make regarding whether or not they cleanse, and when to do it strategically. With the first 2 buffs, infecting the whole team and chasing survivors is given a stronger edge that would encourage them to try and cleanse asap, but then with the 3rd buff, they are either giving her the ability to traverse the map quicker, or gain Corrupt Purge at more ideal times without having to go out of her way to obtain it. I Like these 3 buffs because they keep balance in mind and allow her to focus more on the chase and keeping up pressure on the map, instead of how it is right now: where she spends the majority of the beginning of the match trying to infect as many survivors as possible so that she'll be able to apply more pressure by the mid-end game. This is incredibly time consuming and frustrating for the player, and the infection mechanic itself doesn't really pose enough of a threat to survivors that would encourage them to cleanse vs remaining sick.
It's why I came up with these suggested buffs, but please tell me if you think they would make her too strong to go up against, because while I believe they have balance in mind, I also mained Plague for about a year since she initially came out... so I admit I am a little biased because I just want to see my go-to girl match up more evenly with the better designed and streamlined killers like Spirit, Bubba, and Blight.
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Spirit
- The spirit has given a small indicator when they are passively phasing and it now happens for .5 seconds at base every 3 seconds.
Every 1 second while phasing at base, the Spirit will reveal a glimpse of herself to survivors for .5 seconds. During this glimpse, the spirit cannot see survivors. The original husk that is left behind the moment the spirit phases disintegrates after the first glimpse of the spirit is shown while phasing.
Addons can be changed according to the new phasing.
-Ideas from Otzdarva's community-made patch notes
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KILLER PERKS
Spies from the Shadows:
The Crows no longer respond to your presence, you see the auras of all crows within 36 meters of you, and disturbed crows are 100% louder to you within that range.
This proposal gets rid of the confusing/annoying explosion sound notifications, you get no false signals since crows no longer respond to you, and they basically become little signal flares to tell you where survivors are. If this change were to happen, Spies would become a better tracking tool, and really fit the description of the perk which says: "The Crows found in the world can communicate directly with you."
If they also filled more dead zones (corn fields! seriously all that corn, no scarecrows, and no crows whatsoever? also the center areas of most Macmillan maps, etc.) with crows, that would also be nice for helping this perk gain a better level of consistency.
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I know you said no new mechanics, but I think moving power out of slugging and into hooks would be a good change, especially because if hooks were more secure 'by default' and had a minimum time the survivor was going to be on them like slugged survivors did, you could actually create a camping punishment mechanic which you just can't do right now.
Like, if you can't rescue for 20 seconds period, but survivors only take 15 seconds to get rescue ready on the ground, suddenly the 5 seconds it takes to carry the survivor to a hook is 'worth it' and your not as panicked at the idea of an insta-rescue so you have less reason to linger. You could then make a mechanic that punishes a survivor for being within X meters of the hook if a survivor isn't X+10 meters nearby or whatever by the time its over.
A big issue is the killer has a lot of power to make things unfun for the survivors, but they have little power to play fair without opening themselves up to be whammied. Mechanics that 'even out' the experience are what is really needed, rather than more negative reinforcements for undesired behaviors. Killers are already REALLY on the defensive trying to avoid negative events and have little mental energy or time to actually try to engage in more proactive gameplay.
Basically, lowering the 'stakes' of things so defensive play was less rewarded AND less necessary might do a lot to free people up.
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Trapper:
- Trapper starts with two traps in hand, and can carry two at a time.
- Searching a locker replenishes your traps; once 8 traps are in play or in hand, lockers will no longer replenish traps for the duration of the match. Addons may affect these things.
- Survivors can dead hard over a trap however if they do the trap becomes "inactive" for 6 seconds during which time is has a yellow aura to survivors and the killer. This allows any survivor or the trapper to also pass over it during this time. This ensures the trapper is not immediately punished out of a chase for using their power; while still allowing an aware survivor their ability to dodge the trap.
- Maps now only show the location of inactive or disabled traps; not active traps. However if a survivor holding a map disarms an active trap, it will show on the map even after being reset. This allows maps to have use without outright disabling trapper's power entirely for most of the match.
Spirit:
- Spirit now casts a faint shadow across the ground and/or nearby objects for the first 2 seconds of phasing. Attentive survivors can tell direction she moves during initial phase. However this information can still be faked out at the cost of good timing and giving up a small bit of distance.
- Spirit applies 100% louder breathing and sounds of pain for 120 seconds when striking a survivor. (This is to help allow her to play off sound, without making her dependent on Stridor. It's her most fun aspect after all and being able to see where she is phasing even for a moment is a massive nerf)
- Duration of phasing and speed while phasing will be adjusted accordingly if performance is affected too drastically by these changes.
Trickster
- Blades bounce one time by default; however they no longer bounce off the ground without the use of addons. Knives bounced off objects deal half of one health state in laceration damage. (Seriously guys, stop crying about how that would be OP, outside of bouncing off the ground this will almost NEVER happen, it's just fun to try) Laceration damage overall has been increased significantly as well, however fire rate initially starts off much slower and takes longer to reach full speed volley throwing.
- Trickster how has an alternate fire mode. This can be toggled by pressing active killer ability button (CTRL). This toggles between default bounce knives; and knife fan attack patters. Knife fan sends 3 knives out at the same time in a small spread like cluster. Fire rate is slower, and it consumes ammo faster, however it is much easier to hit survivors and if close you can apply multiple hits at once.
- Trick blades addon adds one additional bounce, and allows knives to be bounced off ground however no bounce damage bonus is applied if first bounce is within one meter of survivor (Negating bouncing off ground abuse).
- Showstopper is now activated by pressing the E key, it can be cancelled however by performing actions such as searching a locker or picking up a survivor from the ground (like oni's power).
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Whoa, this sounds fun! I might edit this overtime if I get new ideas. This is a very creative post for people to share their balance change ideas!
HILLBILLY
- Overheat mechanic lives on, but in a different way. You can only overheat if you are within 12 meters of a hooked survivor. The chainsaw cools down when you leave the radius. It will still cool down while it is being used outside of the radius.
NIGHTMARE
- He can only teleport to generators each time a generator is completed, up to a maximum of 1 teleport. Teleportation tokens regained by consuming one, then gaining one once a generator is completed.
- His cooldown for Dream Projection is removed.
Decrease the snare's Hindered effect by 2.5% to 12.5%.Changed my mind on this one.- He is no longer able to cancel Dream Projection.
- If Freddy is running Dream Pallets, the ability to teleport to generators has a cooldown, but no requirement for generators being completed. You'll also be able to cancel his Dream Projection.
CHANGES TO HIS ADDONS
- Outdoor Rope, Jump Rope, and Swing Chains: These addons will no longer be able to stack with each other or with perks. Slowdown prioritizes on the higher action speed reduction. For example, if Thanatophobia reaches 20% in its penalty, it will NOT stack to 22% or 28%. These addons will also slightly decrease the time it takes for survivors to wake up (using Alarm Clocks or teammates).
Spirit
- Movement speed buffed from 110% to 115%
- Has a special ability called, uhh, you decide on that one. Switching to this ability is similar to how Clown swaps his bottles or how old Doc switches to treatment mode. Spirit cannot phase in her normal mode. Once she switches to her special ability, she is now able to phase like normally. Phasing can no longer be cancelled while charging it up, but you can let go of the button you used to charge up her power during a phase to cancel that phase. Just the usual. Phasing is the same as it was before, however, a sound plays to warn the survivor if she is phasing. Probably glass related, idk.
- After she is done phasing, she is brought back to her normal mode, and is given a cooldown until she can switch back to her other mode.
- In this new mode, her movement speed is decreased to 110%.
- She can still M1 in her new mode.
- She is no longer able to passive phase in her normal mode, HOWEVER, she passive phases by default in her special ability mode or whatever.
DEMOGORGON
- Increased movement speed when charging up Of the Abyss by 9% to a total of 99% (aka making Rat Liver basekit)
- Decreased the time it takes to place a portal to 0.5 seconds (aka making Rat Tail basekit)
CHANGES TO ITS ADDONS
- Rat Liver: Slightly increases the speed of charging up Of the Abyss
- Rat Tail: Slightly increases Shred's maximum distance
CHANGES TO ITS PERKS
- Cruel Limits: Your ties to the otherworldly manifest when your prey attempts to get away. Each time a Generator is repaired, all Windows, vault locations, and pallets within the killer's terror radius are blocked for all Survivors for the next 20/25/30 seconds.
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Took a break, gimme a bit to update...Also, just saying, the point of the thread was, like, the opposite of what is going on here.
That's life, though, I'll roll with it.
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Nightmare
- Freddy's main ability has been replaced with his pre-rework one. His Snares have been replaced with the ability to pull people into the dream.
- Survivors can no longer wake up during the Dream Transition, this is to prevent survivors from being able to self-care in front of him and Freddy not being able to do anything about it.
- Freddy will keep his Dream Projection from the current rework, but the cooldown will be reversed. The more survivors that are awake, the less time it stays on cool down.
- After using Dream Projection, the Nightmare will be able to hurt awake survivors for a short amount of time. Successfully hitting an awake survivor during this state will pull them into the Dream World. Freddy will be fully visible to awake survivors while he can hurt them.
- During the Dream Transition, survivors will be highlighted in blue while The Nightmare is visible to them, and will not be highlighted when he is not. This is to make using the Dream Transition glimpses for mindgames a lot easier.
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SHAPE
- Starts in tier 2. Can switch between tier 1 and 2 with a small cooldown at will.
- Max stalk per survivor is increased.
- Stalking at close distance is much quicker than normal, but stalking at a long distance is a little slower than now.
HAG
- Traps can now be wiped away by the survivors.
- Walking no longer triggers traps.
HUNTRESS
- Indirect, but fix the misleading hitboxes of so many props (especially on coldwind)
NIGHTMARE
- Visually extend Freddy's arms by two feet so that survivors realize his lunge is the same as all other 115%s but can look BS because his weapon is so short.
- Add back the old 'ghost' hand effect from Old Freddy whenever placing a snare/pallet. It looked cool!
- Teleport can no longer be cancelled.
PIG
- Increase crouch transition speed
- Increase crouch movement speed
- Having a trap on now always kills if the survivor tries to leave regardless of whether it's active or not (this was the dumbest nerf ever jfc)
- Traps will temporarily disactivate when the Pig is within 8m
LEGION
- Can now hit a survivor multiple times during their frenzy each rush increases how fast the deep wound timer by 25% up to a max of 100% (so 10s timer max) and increases mend time by 10%. Mend time is increased when being mended by/mending someone else.
PLAGUE
- Fully infected survivors now vault X% Slower
- Plague no longer interacts with fountains. Instead, the more the survivors are infected, the more the power gage fills. When it's full, the Plague enters a short animation and gains corrupt purge.
- Fountains can be used as many times as survivors want; they aren't blocked like how they are now.
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Actually, I love this. Can we have this instead of current Freddy? It sounds like it has amazing counter-play while still being understandable enough to be fun for basic [BAD WORD] who didn't understand how to play old Freddy.
EDIT TO ADD RELEVANT CONTENT:
The Shape
- Re-gains the ability to multi-stalk, but Evil Within progress slows considerably when doing so.
- Judith's Tombstone's T3 requirement slightly lowered, gains the power gauge drain that the Tombstone Piece has when killing survivors.
- Tombstone Piece now allows The Shape to drop to Tier one of Evil Within, it takes significantly less Evil raise to T2 of Evil Within.
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Jimmy Dibbiddydoo:
Whoa guys, whoa. We were trying to make things easier on Survivors, cuz the data shows they think the game is pretty stacked against them. I don't know, maybe our spreadsheets are all wrong. Tell you what though, I went ahead and ran all the changes I could figure out. Just remember to be specific with your changes. Oh, hey, uh, Scoops, you can chill out for a bit. We'll just see where this goes. I'm sure if any of this gets out of hand, someone will say something. Besides, you always... have... her...
Judge of Hell Scoops:
Hmm...
Main post updated. I tried my best to keep up with all the suggestions. Truth be told, there were some I didn't understand, so I didn't add them. If you don't see yours up there, and you were suggesting a new mechanic, you may need to try again. If so, make sure to break down the process of how it works. I will read it over, and try my best to translate it in typical "THIS IS HOW YOU DO THIS" videogame/update log fashion. I will continue to update.ANOTHER THING
Generally speaking, if someone comes along with a change/update/whatever that would alter something already listed, the original will be REPLACED with the new suggestion. I know, it sucks, but it keeps things a bit fresh to see what happens when peoples ideas get muddled, replaced, mashed, etc. That is part of the point of this thread: To see what things would look like is all suggestions were run with, good or bad.0 -
Meh why not
Deathslinger, changes
Takes 1.5 seconds to fully ads before firing, Has 3 shots in his gun reload takes 2+0.5x seconds where x is how many shots he has to reload, range becomes 20 meters, cooldown after firing is 3 seconds
Addon changes, gold creek whisky and sheriffs badge now become add 1 additional shot, and 2 additional shots respectively
New ability, Chain pull, Hitting the environment with the harpoon of the redeemer gives a 0.75 second window to pull yourself towards where you hit in a straight line at 220% movement speed, if you get stuck on something while trying to pull to the harpoon it will break and put you into a 2.5 second cooldown, you can lunge for a normal full lunge out of chain pull, upon a unsuccessful lunge or the chain pull ends you have a 2.5 second cooldown, successful lunges end in normal wipe animation (basically makes him into adrenaline vial blight with a gun) can pull himself up onto balconies of buildings
Old ability changes, you can no longer down a survivor if they are on the end of his harpoon instead hitting them will put them into deep wounds and if they are already in deep wounds it will lower their timer by 50% of its max (can down them by running out the deep wounds timer with 3 successful hits)
This is to try and make deathslinger into a fun mobility character and less stressful for normal looping of spam ads
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Its almost like the community consensus is NOT that killer is too strong (as a whole. Freddy is toxic even if he isn't OP, and spirit and nurse are really good in ways that aren't ideal for the game), and in fact there is actually a lobby crisis over the issue :P
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Jimmy DeadByDaylight:
Well, we recently saw a post that stated Trickster was similar to facing Huntress with 60 hatchets. Given the roster of Killers that surpass her in many ways, and how we felt we shot pretty low with Trickster, we were under the assumption that broad reductions in the entire roster were needed. Except with Trapper, we were pretty happy with him. Still, we'll roll with whatever gets changed.
Jimmy DeadByDaylight:
Your changes were added!
Main post updated. Further updates coming for posts I haven't gotten to. I see that Legion change up there. Gonna eye that one.0 -
Forgot to remove the fact that you can kill survivors with the Tombstone Piece, as my offered change to the actual Tombstone makes it redundant
If you could fix that, I'd be grateful @StibbityStabbity--uh, I mean Jimmy Dibbiddydoo.
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Not a good change for deathslinger, here's an actual good one:
MS is now 115%, but still has 24m TR
ADSing takes 1 second, when you first start ADSing, his speed starts decreasing to 110% after 1 second (when you can fire), then 105% after 2 seconds.
Remove noise notification when being aimed at.
Have 2 detection zones: Make a hitbox for environment and another one for survivors. Make the environment hitbox the same size it is now but make the survivor detection zone much bigger than the harpoon, similar to a huntress hatchet.
Increase the amount of charges on the chain from 100 to 120.
Increase reload speed by 0.25 seconds.
Decrease missed shot cooldown by 0.25 seconds.
The changes made there in your post would make no one play him, which isn't the goal here.
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I think you're missing the point of this thread, and it's almost impossible to be a worse killer than Nea, so I really don't think the changes are that bad.
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Also, while we are at it, Pig change from a Rank 1:
Pig's movement speed while crouched increased to 4.4.
Pig's terror radius reduced back to 28 meters.
Charge time for ambush cut in half. Roar no longer plays until .5 seconds from the end, to make the ambush no longer self defeating but also still allow mindgames.
Pig's trap boxes now alert her half way through searching them with a special noise and overlay distinct from gen explosions.
Pig's traps now have their timer 'regress' while survivors are slugged.
Normalized the RNG on pig boxes, akin to trapper traps. Box alteration addons also alter 'expected' boxes.
Jigsaw's sketch made green.
Annotated Map is now yellow.
Interlocking Razor made purple. Now causes survivors who stop
Amanda's Secret loses its 'downside.'
Interlocking Razor is now purple, and now causes a survivor to take an injury state if they stop searching the box. This cannot down them.
Rusty attachment now also causes Haemorrhage.
Razor Wire is now brown, and also increases the difficulty of skill checks.
Last Will is now Green.
Combat Straps are now green, and Moderately reduce crouch and uncrouch activation time, and increase the time it takes for your terror radius to 'unspool' by 1 second.
Workshop Grease now moderately increases the chance for Jigsaw Box skill checks.
Lots of buffs to her addons to allow more diverse playstyles. The big one is to make her more of a stealth killer, and to move power from her 'slug/lockout' potential which doesn't feel very fun. She still slows herself, but no longer to insane degrees and its harder for her to get a 'last box' scenario where one survivor just is out of the game, while at the same time she is unlikely to lose a trap to the first box searched.
This is a legit attempt to sidegrade her to a healther space more focused on lunge to break loops and stealth, but because so much of Pig's power is wrapped up in her slugging/grindy gameplay it seriously risks knocking the wind out of her sails despite the general buffs. Careful Monitoring (and perhaps abusing) is needed. They ideally will try to play like a 4.4 killer at loops by using the much more powerful ambush to try to set up 50/50s on loops, but because this is still weak at a LOT of loops they can abort to playing normally as just a M1 killer if needed.
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The goal was to nerf killers wasn't it? I still nerfed deathslinger but made him still fine to play. Nobody would want to play slinger if a base 2 second wind up was added.
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It's kind of comical that nearly all the posts in this thread just want their favorite killer to be OP rather than balanced or fun to play against.
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Judge of Hell Scoops:
Jimmy nearly died typing up your changes, so I took over. I have sentenced the souls of the lost and the damned to the Unholy Executioner for far lesser things. You can live for now, but when you are awoken by the click of my flashlight, and made to walk the hall of a thousand pallets, you will know what your crime was, and that you deserved it.
Jimmy DuBiDably:
I... oooooh.... *pant* I got that *COUGH * all on there for you guys. Man, phew. I think I have carpal tunnels. Someone get me a doctor, or a nurse.. WAIT NO NOT YOU!
Nurse:
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Main post modified. I am going to die from all that typing. It would be kinda nice if we kept the amount of changes a bit smaller now. Lets people sort of go through and add things, or modify them on the fly, instead of coming up with huge write ups that get changed by the next huge write up.1 -
To be fair, the original point of the post was actually to take all the NERFS that get suggested and amalgamate them to see what would happen to every Killer if all requested nerfs went through. Clearly, my curiosity backfired tremendously.
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Jimmy DaBbeD:
Sorry for the wait, got those changes in for you.
Main post updated.0 -
Here's my idea for a Clown change.
When throwing a yellow bottle, it will automatically turn yellow instead of turning gray.
When invigorated, You now move at 130% movement speed as Clown, and 115% movement speed as survivor.
If you throw a Purple bottle into a Yellow Cloud of gas, or if you throw a Yellow bottle into a Purple Cloud of gas, the cloud of gas will turn gray.
If a survivor steps into this gray cloud of gas, they will become exposed.
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Hey, good morning. A new day, a new list of Killer changes. Clown too, his list was pretty empty for a bit there. We just reworked him, and thought we easily made him into an A lister, if not S. Spirit players were jumping ship to play Clown, but with these changes, he'll push Nurse down a few pegs.
Main post updated.1 -
I’ll make a change to one killer
Nurse could be 110% move speed with 2 blinks but cannot blink through solid objects
Definetly be worth testing anyway
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Jimmy DeeBeeDee:
Alrighty, added your changes! Hey, just saying, Nurse already has, like, two Blinks standard. I figured you just meant to keep them the same, and not add more because they would be totally broken and overpowered. We'd have to remove disconnect penalties just for Nurse matches. If you meant to give them additional Blinks, though, let me know. I'll add it, though Scoops just woke up and he's already holding his flashlight...
Main post updated.0 -
Nah it was still just two blinks I worded that poorly
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Alright I'll give it a shot.
Hag: When a survivor is rescued, all traps within 8 meters of the hooked survivor are destroyed.
Blood Echo: Reduced the duration of the exhaustion status effect to 20/25/30 seconds. In return, the cooldown has been removed.
Remember Me: Revert the perk back to a maximum of 6 tokens that increases the gate opening time by 5 seconds per token. When there is only one survivor remaining in the trial the perk deactivates.
Hex: The Third Seal: Now afflicts Oblivious in addition to the Blindness status effect.
Franklin's Demise: Every time an item is taken by the entity gain a token. Each token rewards 25% bonus bloodpoints in the Brutality category post trial.
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This sounds fun my turn here’s 2 killers I have in my head
.The Hillbilly
Reworked the overheat mechanic so it only works while reving. When you rev the chainsaw it starts to overheat but when you start sprinting it resets back to 0 the overheat. This is made to prevent camping so when you rev for long periods of time you will overheat.
.The Twins
-Fixed Victors camping strat so if Victor is within 8 meters of a hooked survivor he dies instantly while idle.
-While playing as Victor press the action button to instantly teleport Charlotte to Victors exact location. This is made to reduce tunneling.
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Okay, that idea for Billy is wayyy better than the idea I had. Makes more sense too.
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The balance changes are thought up by people in this thread, not by OP.
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Wraith (4.6.0 version)
Killer power
- Remove the added decrease in movement speed during uncloaking.
add-ons
- "Shadow Dance" - Blood: Now also works during the post-uncloak movement speed bonus.
- "Shadow Dance" - White: Now also works during the post-uncloak movement speed bonus.
- "Swift Hunt" - Blood: Increase the faster uncloak from 12% to 25%.
- "Swift Hunt" - White: Increase the faster uncloak from 10% to 20%.
- "Swift Hunt" - Mud: Increase the faster uncloak from 8% to 15%.
- "Blink" - White: Reworked, reduces the ability for Survivors to see his shimmer by an additional 10 meters, stacks.
- "Blink" - Mud: Reworked, reduces the ability for Survivors to see his shimmer by an additional 5 meters, stacks.
- "Blind Warrior" - White: Additionally afflicts the Survivor with the Hindered Status Effect for ~20 seconds.
- "Blind Warrior" - Mud: Replaces Blindness with Oblivious, reduces the timer from 60 seconds to ~20 seconds.
- "The Serpent" - Soot: Reworked, increases the post-cloak movement speed bonus duration by 0.5 seconds.
- "The Hound" - Soot: Reworked, while cloaked, silences Wraith's growling & reduces the volume of his footsteps by 50%.
- "The Beast" - Soot: Increases the post-trial Deviousness BP by 100% as well, stacks. (So an 8K in Deviousness would net an additional 8K. (Honestly, all crippling Add-ons should follow this example.))
teachables
- Only got rework ideas for these Perks, so nothing goes here to follow rule #2.
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Demogorgon:
- At the start of the match, your ability to enter portals is on a 15 second cooldown (similar to Freddy). You can still place portals during this cooldown.
- You can enter the upside-down through a portal without directly traversing to another portal. Within the upside-down, you freely move at 11m/s, cannot attack, and cannot interact with the environment in any way. Your hearing is muffled, and you can see within 16 meters ahead of you (with some visual effects and an overlay around it to make it as if you're looking up into the world from the upside-down).
- Your vision is obviously blocked if you're below any object, but you still see all auras similar to the current upside down so you don't lose a sense of direction.
- By looking at another portal while you are within the Upside Down and holding the secondary power button for a short moment, you can directly traverse to it similar to current Demogorgon portals.
- While under any spot that has no obstruction above it, you can hold the power button to come out of the ground right where you are, loudly opening a portal on that spot in the process through a ~5-second animation, and returning to the physical world. This portal can be used normally from then on, but is immediately active and cleansable.
- If you are under another portal while in the upside-down, you can go through it at a quicker rate than you would traveling to it from afar.
- After exiting a portal, it can only be cleansed by survivors within a 60 second period afterward. Portals may be picked up by you 120 seconds after they are placed.
- Rat Liver basekit baby.
- After traversing to a portal normally (NOT by placing one through exiting the upside-down, but just directly traveling to an already placed portal through the upside-down), Demogorgon crawls on all fours for 5 seconds, gaining the undetectable status and silenced movement during that time.
- If underneath a completed generator while in the upside down, its lights will flicker because that'd just be cool.
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Surge:
Rework the 32m condition. Surge now regresses the 2 nearest progressed generators to you once a survivor has been downed.
Turn down the cooldown to 20 seconds, or literally just get rid of it.
Buff the 8% regression to 12%
Remove the basic attack condition. Triggers upon any method of downing. That's right, even honing stone and deep-wound downs! :)
If you think it'd be too strong with Ruin, then change it back so it only triggers on gens that aren't already regressing. I personally don't think it would be since Ruin is cleansable, but I see an argument for it.
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Oni:
Iridescent Family Crest: Instead of making survivors scream when missing a demon strike, instead of screaming, survivors’ auras will be revealed for 10 seconds.
Increase the passive charge rate of his power
Survivors drop more blood orbs at base level
You get 50 blood points per orb instead of 25
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I'm going to have to do a redux of this thread. These lists will take hours to transcribe properly, compare changes to the original post to ensure proper alteration, etc. So keep your ideas in mind and wait for part 2: one change at a time this time.
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Huntress:
Iridescent head:
•No longer inflicts dying state on healthy survivors.
•Removes wind-up time.
•Termendously increases cooldown between hatchet throws or between hatchet throw and normal hit.
•Reduces max. number of hatchets by 3.
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Don't worry sir, I'm here. I believe Oni should gain extra blood per hit just like as if he hit the first m1 on a healthy survivor even on injured survivors, but blood gives less charge, and you also don't passively gain charge. The addons that affect charge now makes blood orbs give more charge instead.
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SPIRIT
Blinding the Spirits Husk works to blind her where ever she is while phasing/haunting.
PIG
Make the Ultra Rare add-on Rules Set No.2 (hides Jigsaw box auras for survivors until their RBT is activated) part of Pigs base kit, and replace it with:
Heart Monitor Trigger (UR):
Reverse Bear Traps now activate without a timer when a survivor with one is unhooked. If a survivor with an Active Reverse Bear Trap is Sacrificed, all other active Reverse Bear Traps are Triggered.
Tremendously increases Jigsaw Box Search time. (+8 seconds)
Tremendously Increases Jigsaw Box Skill check Difficulty. (-20% skill check success zone)
Removes all Great Skill Check Success zones from Jigsaw boxes.
"You are not a good listener. I think you missed the part that if he dies, you die." - Amanda Young
TRICKSTER
Throwing knives Ricochet by default but hitting a survivor with a ricochet shot does only 50% laceration damage.
Trick Blades Add-on altered to allow throwing Knives to ricochet 2x, but adds 50% damage to the first ricochet, and 100% to the 2nd, Meaning that 1 ricochet shot is the same as hitting the survivor directly, but hitting the survivor after 2 ricochets doubles the damage. This is meant to add more skill in trick shots and allow a greater reward for landing them.
TWINS
If Victor is past a gates threshold, the escape zone is blocked for all survivors, whether he's currently attached to one or not.
If Victor is crushed while controlling Charlotte, she gains a 5% movement speed bonus for 10 seconds.
Cat's Eye add-on upgraded from uncommon to Very Rare, Makes Victor completely silent unless charging a pounce or pouncing.
Rusted Needle add-on changed to cause Hemorrhage effect as soon as Victor latches onto a survivor, and add Mangled after Victor has been crushed by the survivor.
EXECUTIONER
Rust Colored Egg add-on changed to "Considerably (.5 seconds) reduces the cooldown of Punishment of the Damned."
Crimson Ceremony Book add-on changed to Survivors affected by Torment Tremendously suffer from the Hemorrhage Status Effect regardless of their health state.
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