Brainstorming SWF vs SOLO balancing ideas

My subjective impression is that the ability of SWF to communicate enables them to perform certain actions in situations where solo players would simply run away or hide.

From my point of view the solution is not to add aura reading abilities for everyone.
The game should at least try to remain as scary and unpredictable as possible.

Instead my suggestion is to give all killers more advanced moves like a "grab" and cooldown based "360" attack that offer more options to deal with situations where SWF teams run towards or around the killer instead away.

PLEASE DONT DISCUSS HERE!

For comments on this idea please visit the separate thread:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/29519/additional-advanced-attacks-for-all-killers-grab-360-spin

@Tzeentchling9 said:
Built in Kindred, Bond, Empathy, Object of Obsession+Sole Survivor, Alert, Small Game, Detective's Hunch, Windows of Opportunity, Wake Up, and Open Handed is a good start to getting Solo Survivors up to the same power level as SWF.

That seems a bit extreme, doesn't it? I agree with the first three, Kindred, Bond and Empathy, the rest are way too much.
Honestly Kindred is the main advantage swf survivors have, Knowing what other survivors are doing while someone is hooked is such a help.

@Tzeentchling9 said:
ad19970 said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:

Built in Kindred, Bond, Empathy, Object of Obsession+Sole Survivor, Alert, Small Game, Detective's Hunch, Windows of Opportunity, Wake Up, and Open Handed is a good start to getting Solo Survivors up to the same power level as SWF.

That seems a bit extreme, doesn't it? I agree with the first three, Kindred, Bond and Empathy, the rest are way too much.

Honestly Kindred is the main advantage swf survivors have, Knowing what other survivors are doing while someone is hooked is such a help.

Sure, if you ignore SWF telling each other where the killer is, what gens they are working on, where all the totems are, what pallets have been used, and which doors are opening. To name but a few.

Not quite the same though. Small game for example reveals totems in front of you no matter if a survivor has found that totem already or not. At least with swf one of them has to find the totem first. Also, I don't think their communication comes even close of being able to see the killer's aura everytime you look in his direction. That just isn't the case. And sole survivor? How do swf survivors have the advantage that sole survivor gives you?
I also doubt their communication is so good that they can tell each other exactly where pallets have been broken and where not. Especially with maps not having so many unique locations. That's a bit extreme.

Since SWF vs Solo balance is the topic of discussion here, I hope you don't mind this lengthy post.

We need to establish the difference between a SWF game vs. a Solo Queue game.

There's also SWF, Solo, but SWF with Comms.

SWF has the advantage of:

• Medium Coordination
• Successful Altruism
• High Preparation - Perks, items, offerings, (sometimes "assigned roles")
• Potential in powerful combinations to enhance the group as a whole (Stacking of Leader, Bond, Up the Ante, etc. All 4 ultra rare items, or purple. So on)

SWF with Comms have the extra advantages of:

• High knowledge and high coordination. (Who's in a chase? Who's on a gen? Who's going for the hook? Camping? Killer location? Where the Killer is going? - This can be acquired through comms and allow for excellent setup and coordination.)
• Which literally is the thing that puts them onto the level of power they're in. Lack of knowledge is traded for agility in this game. When you have both, well.. we all know.

Solo Queue:

• Low Coordination - Perks exist to higher coordination or Solo Survivor survival
• Low knowldge
• Allies undependable
• Prediction is key - is someone going for the hook? Should I stay on this gen then? Is the Killer coming here or is the Killer camping? - This can only be acquired through prediction or self-discovery, or in help from a perk. (1 slot = 1 buffs(s)/1 piece(s) of information/1 advantage(s) usually)

Which....SWF with Comms ends up breaking the game to a degree. With all the supports Solo Queue games needs, bring Survivors to being more powerful onto the scale.

The problem is: We can't ban comms, there's no way to enforcing it. Friends are gonna talk to each other one way or another, it's impossible to track. Which ends up really sucking because if we buff Solo to SWF level, then buff Killers, the atmosphere of a solo game will be ruined and could shift how you perceive the game. I mean, when I play with SWF I don't enjoy it. I enjoy the Solo feeling of either doing ######### all and all for me, or all for us and having a save build or a gen build, games where I have to predict, and sometimes people die on the first hook because we didn't know who went for them and in the end nobody did. Variation is important and if we give Solo the coordination SWF has it may just shift the environment completely. Just IMO

When you picture Killers being on one end of a Justice Scale, and Survivors on the other one, ultimately Survivors have the upperhand.

But, what if we put the scale to Killer vs. Solo Queue only games, do Survivors have that big of an upperhand?

Maybe too many pallets, but without them, Solo games tend to be a wild variation in 4ks, 3ks, 2ks, 1ks, and 0ks. Short or long, where as SWF tend to have common patterns Solo Queues do not.

I don't know what to think guys. SWF is overpowered and you'd be damned to think otherwise but what are some actual real ways to balance it? Kindred II is a good step forward, but like... it'd ruin those solo times of not knowing. Guess I'm a sucker for mystery.

Either separate matches of Solo Queues and SWF, or give Solo a series of buffs along of a series of buffs to Killers, or nerf us Survivors to the ground. Or nothing. Maybe idk what I'm talkin bout'

Wolf74 said: 

Solo survivor should just use their brain.
Following some simpler rules will bring them on the same level as SWF.
1. Use Self Care.
2. Use an exhaustion perk (SB, DH or BL)
3. Spread out, do different gens.
4. Every survivor has to cleanse at least ONE (dull) totem.
5. If you get chased, try to lose the killer.
6. If you can't lose the killer, waste his time.
7. If your outside a chase, do gens or heal.
8. Only do safe unhooks and never try to combat a camper

ReneAensland said:

@Tsulan said:
Just add in game voice com.
Remove all the indicators that have been added during the last year.

That's it.

No.

You can't really balance SWF with how easy it is to take advantage of 1 players positioning being the killer. Perk changes alone won't do anything. It would take drastic changes to the core game to do anything.

However if we're just spitballing ideas then here is a few suggestions with reasoning by them. You don't need to agree with them as long as you understand why I'm suggesting them. These suggestions are going to be based around both closing the gaps between solo and SWF as well as Killer vs coordinated SWF.

1. More information should be readily available to both killer and survivor.

I believe adding more subtle tooltips to the UI would be a straight forward solution. Although I have a few "fun" quality of life suggestions as well. However to tl;dr this I would prefer the addition of unique auditory cues for specific events and very small visual notifications that don't cover the screen and could easily be ignored.

• Add a subtle indicator that a survivor is currently in a chase similar to what the obsession has
• Add some auditory cue to a player when they are in range of both a hooked survivor and killer similar to Whispers - This is my alternative suggestion instead of making Kindred baseline because I believe in some situations it would be unfair to the killer if they were in a chase around hook for example with their aura being visible to all survivors.
• Give all players an indicator on how many totems are left on the trial similar to how Thrill of the Hunt tracks them
• Show the aura of survivors to other survivors when they finish an objective or side objective. This would be useful for knowing when a totem is cleansed or how many were on a generator.
• Give survivors a map notification for when someone uses the hatch through methods like a key. This would have its own audio cue and notification.
• Make certain aura aspects of perks baseline such as Wake Up however tone them down in comparison to their perk counterpart
• For survivors who die early in the trial give them the option to re-enter the trial as an ethereal ghost. As a ghost they cannot see the killer or the killers belongings and the killer cannot see the ghost. However they can follow survivors around and communicate with gestures and written messages chosen from a small list of options.
• Let survivors leave messages on the ground or walls like graffiti and notify survivors that a message has been left in that area. An example of this is the beacon add-on for map items. That should be baseline in a survivors kit just in a different form but same premise.
• Give killers a weaker passive Whispers after the gates are powered and if they cannot find a survivor for over a minute - An alternative end game would be ideal but this is more so to deal with survivors who refuse to leave and would rather hide to prolong the game. The primary reason I'm suggesting this is because it's easier to completely avoid the killer with SWF if you're purposely hiding and not leaving.

Most of these are for the benefit of solo survivors so they can communicate with other survivors. I prefer auditory cues to not spam the screen with too many visuals. The main thing to note is most of the suggestions in the list are things a survivor has to actually do in the trial and can't just open up a menu for example.

2. Hide killer loadout at post game screen until trial is finished.

Most seasoned players can immediately figure out the killers loadout based on their actions or other indicators. If you've escaped then the trial is essentially over. Waiting another minute or so for stragglers isn't going to ruin your experience as a survivor. If you died early as survivor allowing you to see perks would only open the opportunity to ruin any surprise attacks from the killers loadout such as Blood Warden, NOED or Devour Hope. While it sucks this should be one of the downsides for dying early.

Regarding new players wanting to see loadouts. DBD should have a way to convey information easily to new players similar to how new players get an indicator on what killer they're playing against for the first few times. Possibly showing the killers perks at the start of the trial to new players as long as they haven't played against those perks before. For example the killer has BBQ & Chili and I've never played against that. A small tooltip will appear in game and there will be a specific hotkey to close this window. If there are multiple perks then pressing the hotkey will skip to the next one. Obviously more tutorials would be a better option but those take time to develop and the prior suggestion is quicker to implement although not ideal.

Although my personal bias with new players is that hands on experience is the best for learning and all players should have access to at least all tier 1 version of each perk regardless of teachable. I don't care about the grind because I have all perks and I really don't care if people think it's unfair. However the argument to that is even if a new player had access to all perks what would they use and why?

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So pretty much I've said nothing new but if that's the case it's at least clear with who I agree with. Although disclaimer my post is literally just brainstorming ideas. Aside from a tooltip about perks for new players I'm not going to claim any of these are the right solution. I just see them as being options for the bigger problem.