Please stop saying Ruin was nerfed
The new Ruin is much worse than the old Ruin. I think all the survivors want the old Ruin back because it's no where near as oppressive as the new Ruin.
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Pls no. Gen tapping was annoying.
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Ruin is stronger now if the killer is playing well. Old ruin was strong against new players
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New Ruin was nerfed. Against good Survivors the only Killers who can apply meaningful pressure are the top-tier ones who don't need Ruin anyway.
At least old Ruin made great skill checks not give progress. Now if the Survivors are any kind of efficient with gens, new Ruin does NOTHING.
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Old ruin could be negated by just getting great skill checks, which is easy for red ranks. New ruin is definitely better IMO
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it wasnt nerfed, it was reworked.
the difference between these two terms is, that a nerf is a change that leaves somethings main effect in place and makes it weaker than before, while a rework is something that completely changes the way it works.
old Ruin was an unhealthy design for the game and, quite honestly, was the most overrated Perk in existance.
not only did it punish unexperienced survivor players for being new to the game, it also had a ton of negative effects on the killer side of things, which mose probaply never even realized:
1) the Hex: Ruin meta made any other Hex useless, as everyone immediately went out to hunt bones at the start of a quest, meaning something like Devour Hope rarely ever got more than maybe two stacks before it blew up.
2) Ruin blew up within the first 30 to 60 seconds of a trial in at least 75% of the cases, meaning it rarely did anything
3) Ruin was 100% RNG reliant. not only because of the random nature of skillchecks, but also because lower levels of Ruin only affected a selected amount of the survivors, which were randomly selected.
4) Ruin didnt work as soon as the survivor was experienced enough to hit great skillchecks consistantly, meaning good teams would still obliterate gens without feeling much pf a difference (so Ruin was but a noob stomper)
new Ruin took care of all those problems (excluding 2) ofc), which means its overall just a better designed perk.
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I agree in some circumstances but for some killers ruin was nerfed for other it was buffed. Unfortunately the weaker killers who needed ruin more then the high tier killers suffered the most from the changes. I just wish the gen regression perks weren't so restrained half of them are just so bad. Surge percentage is abyssmal on top of an m1 hit requirement. Thanatophobia despite being ridiculously hard to apply outside of plague % reduction is terrible. Dying light does nothing in the early half of the game and pop got nerfed so its even worse on the slower killers. What the hell is going on with behavior and there decision to continously nerf the weaker killers. ya sure some targeted buffs are coming but how long has it taken them to get wraith to a good state. Look at all the restrained trapper buffs that do nothing to tackled his major issues.
Its really frustrating seeing balance changes for high tier killer come at the expense of hurting low tier killers. Hell pop didn't even need changes sense most of the high tier killer were running ruin and undying and imo its still better to run the two perks then pop. Meanwhile killers who actually benefited from pop are now having significantly less flexibility in its use. Why is is we can have phenomenal chase perks but absolutely awful stall perks. Imo corrupt and ruin are the only meaningful regression perks in dbd everything else is just straight trash or is hopelessly restrained by awkward condition's.
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It was tho.
Can you imagine Old Ruin + Undying?
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It did nothing against survivors who could land great skill checks hell it actually helped you land them since your brain now has less room for error, back then i couldn't land great skill checks unless i went against ruin then all of a sudden i could land nearly all of them.
Current ruin is a lot better as it stalls the game better than old ruin especially if it is found since you know you got at least a good amount of gen regression assuming you pressured gens that got worked on.
I also hated the idea of using a perk only good against bad survivors so i never ran it especially once pop came out but now i use it on a good amount of killers because it is a good perk that works against all survivors.
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the hell you on?
if you got a team that could hit those skill checks old ruin did nothing, oh bonus progression? you mean the what 10-12% that's like 8 seconds from a few skill checks they may or may not have landed that now has been reduced to only 1% bonus progression instead of 2%? You could literally get more value from thano than that especially once ruin got cleansed.
New ruin is way better than old ruin simply due to the fact that survivors will lose a ton of progress against any killer that knows how to pressure gens that is not limited to mobility killers it is useful for all killers.
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For slower M1 killers, like my trapper, old ruin was better.
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I’d mostly agree until you fought the squad you could hit consistent greats. Then it became worse than thana
Since corrupt intervention got released I used that instead on my trapper
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Ruin was reworked.
New Ruin is significantly better for fast killers who can easily get to and push Survivors off of gens. However, if a Survivor never gets threatened while they're on a gen, New Ruin does exactly nothing.
Old Ruin is significantly better for slower, setup killers that aren't very good at pushing Survivors off of gens. As long as they got skill checks, they lost at least some progress. However if you can push Survivors off generators, new Ruin will eat so much more Survivor time than old Ruin would.
Ironically, New Ruin is kind of hot garbage for Hag who owns the perk. So... whether Ruin was nerfed or not kinda strongly depends on which killer is/was using it.
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Again survivors could hit those skill checks hell it helped you do so, i literally could only hit great skill checks back then when ruin is up.
New ruin literally regresses a gen by around 1% every second meaning if a good survivor stays off a gen for even 20 seconds new ruin is just better.
Also my point is if survivors hit great skill checks they lose nothing which is my point, it was pretty common to get survivors who could hit them as well you didn't have to be good at the game just good at skill checks which is something a lot of players are good at especially nowadays, old ruin would literally just get weaker over time.
New ruin by staying up can easily regress gens by just existing, it gives info as you can see it start to regress the second a survivor leaves it and you don't have to waste time kicking gens.
new ruin can EASILY WASTE WAY MORE THAN 30 SECONDS, are you just bad at the game? can you not pressure gens? just being near a gen will make survivors leave it and it will regress and you can do that multiple times and survivors no matter how good would want that hex destroyed so that is at least against good survivors having 1 not on gens.
so no you're 100% wrong get out of 2018.
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I use corrupt on my trapper too. So the ruin nerf didn't hit him too hard. However since old ruin was useless against good survivors I don't see the need to rework it. Sure it was strong against new survivors but it wasn't unbeatable. Even if you couldn't hit great skill checks you could still just power through it. They have to learn to play sometime.
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The new ruin is now consistently good so long as you can pressure the survivors which makes it a more balanced perk imo
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doesn't matter you can still easily waste more than 30 seconds of progress so you're still wrong.
New ruin is just more reliable and does have synergy it even has synergy with pop and undying so again are you inexperienced with the perk?
As said this isn't 2018 we have less progress on great skill checks so gens are slower and if you play nurse who has mobility then you yourself should know current ruin is better on her than old ruin as you have mobility to stop gens and naturally regress them.
edit: Also no ruin is an early game perk if you say it's late game maybe get better at managing gens/switching targets to apply pressure. You should be able to easily get more value out of it as nurse hell i do and i play her on console.
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No, old ruin was nerfed. Today you can do 5 gens without even looking for ruin whereas before you simply COULD NOT ignore it if you wanted to get gens done.
I don't care how good at the game you were at the time you could not hit every single great skill check to ignore the regression.
It's debatable on whether the nerf was needed because like it or not it added some much needed early game pressure that killers still struggle with today.
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It's early game due to its nature as a Hex and it's natural regression, you find a survivor and chase then all the gen progress goes away and you repeat until the hex is destroyed. Doing this gives it way more way value at stalling then old ruin, of course you can't pressure all survivors but you can kill a gen, or two, or three or more that they worked on.
there is also killers that new ruin is just better on such as legion, plague, or literally any mobility killer. Even heavily chase killers get use out of it since they can end chases quickly and get back to that gen which more than likely won't get done in time.
Because of that yes it's an early game perk, that's why i said it has synergy with pop since you can heavily regress every gen you stop then once it's destroyed you have pop to cover for it.
You don't have much experience with this is all im getting from you. I have used this on a ton of killers, you said you play nurse? so do i in fact i play nearly all killers on console for the past 3 years and new ruin is way more reliable and applies way more regression then old ruin ever did. "But if old ruin stayed up all game it was amazing against survivors who can't hit great skill checks" so is current ruin in fact it is just flat out better in late game than old ruin.
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Also gen rush is a thing? survivors can spawn on the same gen and get it to like 40% when you get to it?
it's just flat out not true that you barely get value out of it early game.
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If a low-mobility, low-pressure Killer is getting gen pressure, that's the Survivors letting them do that. And at that point, that's not Ruin being a good Perk, that's Survivors being dookie at the video game.
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So you are telling me that a deathslinger can't knock a survivor off a gen end that chase and get back to the gen in time?
Because that is literally why old ruin+undying was popular on him and still is, can every killer without mobility make use out of it no but plenty can even plague can since it either makes survivors get infected faster or the gen regresses.
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I dont know if you misread my post but I agree that ruin (old and new) is good early game pressure. It's just just old ruin was better at it.
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Considering Slinger's TTD is longer than a lot of people make it out to be, yes, I definitely think that Survivors can finish a gen before he can get a hook and then pressure it.
"Because that is literally why old ruin+undying was popular on him and still is,"
It's popular because it's the closest most Killers can have to good stall. Doesn't mean it's strong, it's just the closest there is TO strong.
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You mean the same survivors that weren't affected by old Ruin anyway...?
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are assuming the deathslinger is bad? If the deathslinger can't quickly end the chase he can just go back to the gen
Ruin allows killers to regress gens without sacrificing chase potential not only that but just by going to a gen you get value out of regressing it as survivors are not tp'ing straight onto that gen.
Like unless that gen is like above 60% when you leave it and another survivor gets on it you can make it back and stop it as Deathslinger, that's why it was popular because he can end chases fast enough to also stop gens and he doesn't have to waste time regressing them directly.
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both ruins are bad, old ruin punishes new and bad survivors who can't hit great skill checks while it doesn't always work against higher skilled survivors who can hit those skill checks. but it was useable on all killers.
new ruin has the problem where it rewards killers who are monster at pressuring the survivors off of gens, this makes the perk weak or pointless to run on killers who can't constantly push people off of gens because they don't have the mobility or down people fast enough because they don't have good chase potential.
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your first line shows you literally have no experience with ruin, this isn't even an argument as you clearly don't understand the perk. Current ruin will not stay up the whole game it is a perk that survivor will actively look for as the longer the game goes the more and more value ruin gives you to the point where it alone can win games assuming you have are good and have had good chases. Pop is to cover for that so after it is gone you have it to still have good stalling, the synergy is you spend less time on gens and can focus on chases so later in the game when ruin is destroyed you have 1-3 more hooks and can use pop to continue stalling.
it's not underpowered if it was survivors wouldn't look for it but even good swf's will go out of their way to get rid of it as it regresses gens by an insane amount if left alone.
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Great skill checks were 2% bonus not 5% and have since been lowered to just 1%. Additionally, the good skill check penalty also pauses progression for all Survivors on that gen for 2ish seconds.
8 skillchecks per gen adds up to about 13 seconds. Not 32 seconds.
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A good DS can end chases in like 30 seconds at most, unless by the time you left that gen and a survivor continues to repair it if it's not above 50% that gen isn't getting repaired.
Even if they didn't end the chase DS can simply go back to the gen and start another chase which will regress the gen if the survivor goes back to that gen while injured they are just askin to get hooked.
edit: i already responded to this lol im too tired to keep track of this.
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That's not synergy. That's just 2 independently good perks giving value on their own merits.
For it to be a synergy one or both of the perks needs to give more value because the other perk also exists. Pop and Ruin are anti-synergy since every hook you get while ruin is up is a pop proc that you don't get value from where you otherwise would. You take both because they are both great perks in isolation, not because they make each other stronger.
Contrast something like Ruin and Undying, where Undying in addition to having it's own value also gives ruin more value (by reviving it).
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I consider the way they help to be a synergy, just not a direct one as both of their regression stacks up.
it still is a good combo as you can just focus on chasing until ruin is destroyed then get value from pop.
I even have situations where ruin gets destroyed and i have pop active that i just use to further regress a gen i pass by.
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I dunno, man, having walls or distance of any kind is pretty bad for everyone's least favorite cowboy.
So he'll end the chase and then that Survivor will work on a different gen. Congrats, you've accomplished nothing.
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well luckily it's pretty rare for that cowboy to not have LOS for that long otherwise he wouldn't be considered stupidly good in 1v1's now would he?
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Ah, yes, he's so good in 1v1s and really strong.
That's why he's in the top 10 least played Killers of all time. Of course.
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pretty sure that doesn't matter, hag is very good but she is barely played as well.
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Difference between someone like Slinger and, say, Hag or Nurse being rarely picked is that Hag and Nurse are frustrating to learn. People don't play them because unless you've already got the map knowledge or the muscle memory and prediction down, they're hard to play.
Slinger is one of the easiest Killers in the game to understand. He's not hard at all. He's just bad.
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Current ruin is far easier to deal with for all levels of Survivors and less punishing as well. Now that only the survivor being chased off the gen is effected, it's actually more work for the killer to make the perk useful.
Old ruin was difficult for new players and sent many of them totem hunting at the start of the match, but started losing efficiency as Survivors became more attuned to skill checks. Still old ruin was useful against all Survivors at the same time.
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It wasn't nerfed more like reworked. Old ruin is better than new ruin tbh. It regressed the gens so much and you could pair it with pgtw. Most survivors struggled with the skill checks.
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I agree new ruin promotes healthy gameplay. It rewards the killer for pressuring the gens. The only downside is many killers lack the mobility to do that effectively.
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Oh lord no. Don't bring it back.
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New ruin is only oppressive if the survivors suck.
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Even if you could use both at once, it still wouldn't be a synergy.
Stacking is not synergy. It's synergy ONLY if they perks improve each other.
So sloppy butcher has synergy with thanataphobia, since making it harder to heal has synergy with a perk that makes actions take longer if they don't.
But sloppy does not have synergy with coulrophobia, since making survivors heal slower does not make further heal speed reduction more effective.
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