I do feel like there's been an increase in tunneling and camping
I can't help but notice in most of my games since the update, the killers have resorted to tunneling and face camping more due to DS being nerfed, like they have nothing to fear which is true because I have seen a DRASTIC decrease in DS usage. I've seen it proc maybe 3 times since the nerf which is mind boggling. It's a proper anti tunnel perk now, not sixty seconds of invincibility which has lead people to believe it's a bad perk all of a sudden?! What the hell guys?!
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Because killers have to.
At the current state of the game, because the gen speed is so fast killers have no time to chase and hook every survivor one by one.
If you don't like to be tunneled, bring DS. Or suggest to nerf gen speed or buff gen kicks to give more incentive for killers to spend more time than tunneling.
As long as the gen speed stays the same, there is nothing can be done for tunneling.
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Main campers I've seen since the update were Tricksters, and let's be honest, it's the best way to secure kills until they make him less of an entertainer and more a killer. Throwing knives is fine and but if it takes a killer longer than Legion to down people, there's something wrong with its design.
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Those who stop using DS are those who abuse 60s immunity.
The power in anti-tunnel is not touched. A huge drop of usage basically means people are not using it as anti-tunnel in the first place
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Yup, exactly. They used it to aggressively so stupid things right in the killers face without facing consequences. Now they can't anymore (or, they can, but it's much riskier)
You'll see much less suicide rescue missions if the rescuers' DS isn't active anymore because they worked on objectives.
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They do, but let's act as if the killer wasn't just one player trying to defend 7 generators from 4 other players.
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With the DS nerf, it's time for a fix to camping. DS was a bandaid fix for a much bigger problem and the Developers are going to see they need to do something to fix camping. (Tunneling is caused by the ability to camp or soft camp). Camping is toxic and isn't needed as seen by content creators, over and over again.
What the Developers hopefully will do is make is so hook progression stops while a killer is not in a chase and is within 32 meters of the hook, except for end game collapse. That keeps survivors from abusing it and it forces Killers to leave the hook and gives the hooked survivor a chance.
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How about no? There's already perks to stop hook progression, use them.
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This again? How many times do people need to tell you this is wrong?
They tried it, it was abused by survivors, they vowed never to try it again.
Camping is sometimes required, and sometimes a valid tactic, especially during EGC.
What they need is more killer perks that incentivise leaving the hook. A speed boost that triggers for 20s after hooking a survivor, a Ruin-like regression perk that only works when you're x meters away from the hook, etc.
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Doesn't Devour Hope give a speed boost after hooks? After the first attack or two, I forgot.. It's not the main reason people use it anyway so I forgot
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As @Seraphor just said this has already been tried and it failed ABYSSMALLY on the PTB. It was easily abusable.
The DS change doesn't change camping at all, as DS wasn't ever much of an anti-camping perk anyway.
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Yeah its a minor Haste after 2 tokens, but it's a Hex due to how powerful the 3rd and 5th tokens are, so it gets cleansed. Devours haste literally just exists in order to facilitate you reaching the safe distance before they get unhooked.
This would be a more substantial speed boost, and just a speed boost, that can't be cleansed. So you'd have to leave the hook ASAP to make the most of it, and you'd want to. Could even tie in a BP bonus to it like BBQ.
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The Developers tried stopping hook progression when the killer is within 32 meters. They did not try stopping hook progression while the Killer is not in a chase and is within 32 meters of the hook, except for end game collapse.
And with all the toxic face camping going on now, which is ruining the game for 4/5s of the DBD community, it might be time for the Devs to rework the camping tactic.
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- Holy hyperbole! There's no major increase in camping, and 4/5s, not at all...
- You can't "rework" a behaviour... and incentives are better than punishments.
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Sure. They can fix it in 4-5 years, it'll give them enough time to analyze the data, like they did with DS, right? See how survivors not using DS aggressively anymore affects the facecamping.
Seriously, it annoys me to get tunneled/camped when I play survivor, but it's a minority of the games. They don't need to add more crutch mechanics to give survivors even more chances of winning.
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Thing is though.. even with a perk that gave you a speed boost, some people would still camp while using it. I've seen Devour Hope and Make Your Choice campers.. makes no sense to camp using these two perks that require you to be away, but here we are,
EDIT: not saying the speed perk is a bad idea, just saying it won't prevent "real" campers from camping
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People will still tunnel, just like they did when old DS was a thing. I played against a 4man gen assault team, all rank 1 yesterday and was relieved to see they couldn't go around abusing what used to be a busted perk. They kept hook bombing and gen tapping, finally killers are able to punish it.
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Likely it's "camping" as perceived by the survivor then. That is to say the killers only still there because another survivor is looping them round the hook. Killer's not going to be able to get far enough before they're unhooked in that scenario, so may as well take the bait and down them while they can.
Or they're just idiots who don't know how perks work.
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Some of them are idiots, some just want to secure kills even if no one is even around, with 5 generators left.. who knows how they think? But if I get camped on the very first hook of the game with no one in sight to give reasons to the killer to stay, I might just suicide and move on. Though I'll wait a bit to at least go into struggle first, and unless someone's right there, screw that I'm out.
But yeah it's a minority of the games
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This does effect 4/5s of the player base, since it affects every single survivor. I guarantee there isn't a single survivor that is happy about being camped.
***I don't know if there is a major increase in camping, that's something the OP said, not me. However out of the last 5 games I played, I was face camped 2 times. This is circumstantial evidence but there was a nerf to DS and as a Killer, if you don't see an object of obsession, you know you have free reign to camp.
This is removing the incentives to camp. DBD is incentivized for Killers to camp to get kills. This helps change the players incentivized "behaviour" to camp.
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At a certain point everyone has to take responsibility for their own gameplay. Survivors and killers.
I admittedly play more killer than I do survivor, but do you know what I do when I play survivor? I sit my ass on a gen at any point I can. Why? Because it speeds up my ability to win. When the killers terror radius is nearby, do I run to a bush? Nope I sit my ass on a gen until the last second then sprint burst away. When I’m being camped do I immediately try to unhook myself then suicide? Nope because my teammates are then in a 3 v 1 without having time to sit their asses on gens.
when I’m on killer, and gens are flying, do I complain about this? Nope. I’ll slug, I’ll down a survivor that I have recently hooked, depending on the setup I’ll already know which 3 gens I’ll retreat to as a last resort. When I freshly hook someone and immediately hear the unhook I’ll absolutely slug them right back on the ground.
each side is in a battle of time. Survivors want it, killers want it. Each side is in a battle of resources. The longer a match goes the more in favor it goes to the killer and likewise the shorter it goes the more it tends to favor survivor. (It’s a generalization.)
instead of understanding the ebb and flow of games, most folks just want to rely on the devs to make up for lack of skill by limiting choice. Once all choice is taken away, you might as well just play the tutorial over and over again.
*I forgot to add this into the flow so I’ll just add it here* the devs ineptitude when it comes to matchmaking only magnifies the issues. Start holding them accountable for this and a lot of things will be more tolerable.
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Nah. I play survivor too. I rarely get camped. It's not a massive issue.
Literally everything in the game incentivises against camping. Camping gets you less bloodpoints, less emblem progress, it gives away gens to survivors, etc. Killers who camp are simply being lazy. Except for when it is a valid tactic, in which case, you shouldn't punish it.
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Looking at my proposal...
- Make is so hook progression stops while a killer is not in a chase and is within 32 meters of the hook, except for end game collapse. That keeps survivors from abusing it and it forces Killers to leave the hook and gives the hooked survivor a chance.
What exactly is bad about this change? You yourself said that Killers who camp is lazy. And survivors who get camped literally don't get to play the game. No other game I know of lets you literally stop someone else from playing it. However camping does exactly that, it stops someone from playing the game. Do you not think this is a serious design flaw in the game, the fact that one player can stop another player from playing the game? Why should it not be fixed?
***And I'm not saying this is the fix to use, there's could definitely be a better fix.
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The biggest problem I have with that is the 32 meters part. "While the killer is still in the match" while you're at it? No more hooking people in the basement in that corn map with the shack in the middle, cause 32 meters from there is nearly mapwide. Ah well!
(also the fact that it doesn't prevent people from stealthing around while the killer knows they're there, not in a chase, but they saw scratchmark and crows flying so they know someone's around. literally no reason to leave the hook)
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Which is 100% true. Survivors don't want an anti-tunneling perk, they want a perk to abuse. I didn't encounter a single DS yesterday, no survivors are bringing it because they knew tunneling wasn't the appeal.
Now killers know it.
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I mean yes, that's what the killer is supposed to do, is it not?
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3 matches today so far.
Nurse camped me on 1st hook to death, teammates didn't bother trying to save despite me saving them and only having been on their first hook.
Then right after that, Gunslinger did the same thing, first to a Meg early in the game and then to me.
Red ranks btw. Fun fun.
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Just play killers and face rank 1 survivors LMAO
Any killers who play at the red rank know how fast gens are.
Even at the purple or lower.
Now the undying is nerfed, god help us there is literally no time to chase one by one.
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Tunneling and camping will always be in the game theres no way to balance it out without breaking something else. Killers will tunnel if gens are going too fast. You gotta remember most of the killers don't have movement abilities and can't traverse the big maps. Killers have limited regression perks and running a all gen regression build isn't that great. Camping is also hard to fix. Maybe it could work like pyramid head cgaes that disappear is PH is too close but even something as simple as that can break the
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By evidence of this very forum, its the same as always. Just people think their complants carry more water after the DS nerf.
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32 meters is just way, way too large an area. Also, is it horizontal or does it count above and below as well? Say I hook someone 3/4ths down the road at Haddonsfield. Well now there's 3 houses and one exit gate I can't go to without stopping hook progression, even to kick a gen. How is that fair?
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I never said I suicide right away if the killer sticks around for 5 seconds. But if he does for the full first phase, or keeps coming back for no reason at all every 2 seconds, I might as well go play against a better opponent.
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