I'm Convinced That All-Kill Was A Mis-Timed April Fools' Prank
It's my only way of coping with how this disaster of a chapter was handled. No map, no updated map, and the worst killer in the entire game by a long shot.
Quotes from Almo saying that our feedback basically means nothing on the PTB and we're stuck with a terrible killer for at least 2 months.
I don't even think EA holds this much contempt for their playerbase, at least they have the common sense to understand what their players want. BHVR... I just can't anymore...
Merry Happy April Fools'... whatever...
Comments
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B..b...b... but the data says..
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2 months? Big sad for the twinkster.
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Yikes...
They need to know that when something is so obviously bad, they need to fix it immediately.
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THE. DATA. SAYS. >:(
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I don't understand why they love and refer to "the data" so religiously. The data says nurse is the worst killer and pig and myers are top tier. That alone should be enough to disregard 90 percent of it...
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How are they expected to fix something in a week? Give them six months to sort this out. They’ve never disappointed us before, you just haven’t given them the two years they needed to find the solution. I promise you by the end of the 5th year waiting, he will probably have built in ricochet and can keep laceration damage without decay.
Then you’ll see how silly you were for starting this topic.
Happy April Fo- (dies inside)
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sorry i forgot they just haven't had enough time
darn those ptbs for being so short
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Why not look from the start and gradually keep track? Why wait more than a month to take a look at the data?
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Diablo Immortal would like a word with you.
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STATS
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Oh my god.
You don't need data to see that he's bad! Literally just play the damn game! Or watch the experts like otz who spend all day everyday playing dbd.
Why does bhvr hate its players so much?
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I really don’t understand why we’ve stopped getting maps. Sure map reworks are nice. But like new maps are a lot more fun, and half the rework maps are just 90% breakable wall that no one uses.
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Unanimous feedback from the PTB and fog whisperers that Trickster is bad? Clear indications that can be found outside of statistic sheets? Nah, data only.
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In fairness, each day the Tricksters I've been facing have been getting more and more accurate. On the first day they were lucky if they got one kill. Yesterday, I saw it fluctuate a lot and averaged around two kills. Today, 3+ kills have not been uncommon. And bear in mind this isn't me playing the Trickster, but rather playing against them. People seem to be getting much more accurate with the blades, mixing and matching more Perks, and getting a better mix of blade to M1 attacks.
I think it is way too early (I generally wait one month to make my call) but the improvement in just a couple of days is palpable. He may well still get the title "weakest killer" but I'm not sure that means he isn't playable. I played him, successfully, very differently than what I'm running into. The fact of the matter is the DEV are going to wait an month or two to study their "big data" so we might as well strap in and test the heck out of the guy. Screaming and venting here early isn't going to get that big a reaction from them.
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Well considering that technically it has been a month if you include ptb time something is wrong
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It is. You really thought you were getting a decent killer eh?
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I don’t know there statement about stats is so inconsistent they say that this killer is high on stats so he doesn’t need a buff but if they were to use stats technically Nurse is the worst killer and should be buffed but they refuse to do it
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Imagine a firefighter saying we need to wait for the data to put the fire out in your house.
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Imagine someone who compares luxury items like video games to life threatening situations like fires that destroy homes and end lives.
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I wouldn't say it is. Honestly if it wasn't for him being too weak, Trickster would be an absolute fantastic addition to the game. Starstruck, No Way Out, and Hex: Crowd Control all look like interesting and potentially useful perks. The Survivor perks also look to be a mix of useful to at least interesting.
I don't even blame the Devs for undershooting his power level. Balancing a brand new character for all levels of skill is not an easy task. However, they should have buffed Trickster more coming off the PTB.
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Imagine to chill but here is a rated G version just for ya, imagine you bought a steak and asked for it to be medium-rare but they prepared it well done. You ask them to bring you a new one but told you "We need to wait for a consensus from all of the other customers that it was prepared well done before you get you a new one." But you also learn that this restaurant received feedback weeks before it served you that steak that it was preparing them well done when people wanted their steaks medium-rare.
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Why would they ever listen to players? That's so silly. Don't you know stats know everything and we don't.
But seriously, the only reason we haven't seen any buffs is because they've decided to lose touch with their community and do their own thing. Which I'm pretty sure is on the list of things that kill games. I love dbd and don't want to see it die so I'd love it if the devs started listening instead of holding onto only stats.
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You analogy is incorrect because you didn't buy a "medium-rare" steak. The Trickster (and Survivor) were released with no surprises. Everyone was told exactly how things worked PRIOR to purchase. They stated exactly what had changed (and what had not) from the play test. Thus, if you chose to buy him with all the information provided, you made the choice after seeing the menu and knowing they only do steaks well-done at this restaurant. It doesn't matter if a lot of customers are requesting medium-rare steaks, when the menu clearly tells you what they are serving. If you are unhappy, find another restaurant. So that is strike two; do you care to try again?
Video games are luxury items. They are not important, nor are they necessary for anyone's health or well-being. We CHOOSE to buy something or we pass on it. That is the long and the short of it; vote with your wallet. I do take issue with the hyperbole and/or people comparing video game companies with first responders. Do I really need to get into why that is an insulting, bad analogy? If the DEV had done a bait and switch, i.e. told us it was going to work one way, and then released it doing something else, that would be worthy of all the hot air and passion. That didn't happen. A bunch of people gave their opinion, but the company went another way. They told us how things were, and left it to us to decide if we want to buy it or not. That seems pretty straightforward and ethical.
So, if all you outraged folks want to continue to treat the release of the Trickster with the kind of passion that SHOULD be reserved for real world issues of injustice, discrimination, and crime feel free to do so. I'm going to poke fun at it though.
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Again just chill, we all want Trickster to get a buff and not accept a dev saying "We need to wait a month and a half for data" for them to even start the conversation that this killer needs to be looked at.
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Maybe Pig and Myers are top tier because the people playing them are one trick ponies.
For example, a couple of weeks ago in LOL Singed had a 51% win ratio which is a decent one... But the champion in itself is completely useless.
The thing is that the data showed this just because that champ is usually one that is played OTPs, so they are a really small part of the communitY that just plays that character, and obviously they get good results by doing weird strats.
Same happens in DbD.
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A conversation is started in a constructive, polite way. That isn't what has been going on, and the approach most have applied is just going to turn the DEV off from listening to us completely. There are real people on the other side of those screens, people just like you and I. They work hard and do take pride in what they do. Some things work and some things don't, but nobody likes being attacked and pelted with feces 24/7. It is my opinion, that we should be treating others on the internet with the same good manners we do in the real world. I cannot imagine that most of the posters here treat friends, family, co-workers, or even the businesses they interact with the way they do here.
As I have stated before, the DEV are far more vested in their game doing well than you and I. To us, it is just a game (one of thousands). To them, it is their job. It pays the bills. I trust they are going to do what they can with what they have. Their view of things, however, and ours is different. I accept that; you should too for the sake of your own blood pressure. In the end, if you don't like the Trickster, don't buy him. Your problem is solved. Wait for a Killer release that you do like. Do you see where I'm going with this? You (and many others) act as if you are required to buy this Killer you don't like. It makes me laugh.
So no, I'm not going to "chill" when you make fools of yourselves. Give your feedback any way you want, but if you state silly things or do it in an obnoxious way, I'm going to chime in too. A Forum is an exchange of ideas, and sometimes people are going to disagree and take YOU to task over the things you say. That is how this process works. If you don't want to hear from me, don't give me all these poorly thought out analogies and hyperbole to make fun of with my own long, obnoxious posts. Give your feedback in a polite, constructive way and you won't hear a peep out of me. Best of all, they might pay attention to you rather than just ignoring you.
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That's just ignorance, to be honest. You don't need data to balance a game, it's definitely not unimportant, but you are able to tell whether something needs changes without it, especially in such an obvious case.
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Chill and I'll leave it at that.
Also, did BHVR say April Fools yet for this chapter?
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Everything about Trickster's gameplay sucks. You need 8 knives to injure someone, main event is a garbage Meyers Tier 3/Oni Bloodfury equivalent, the laceration disapates, he's 110%, the recoil is unreasonable and makes him unplayable. You're forced to M1 because you're never gonna down anybody with your ability without falling prey to the fallacy of sunk costs.
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It doesn’t matter if the analogy is technically wrong, the spirit (lol) of it is correct. The PTB is meant to test things and gather feedback for improvements on release. They have proven that they can do such things before. If they fail to do so after a vast majority of people say the same thing, then they deserve the criticism they receive, especially if the most crucial thing in the PTB is still awful on release.
We asked for buffs to Trickster and we got basically a nerf. The devs deserve the criticism they’re getting.
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You make the assumption that is what they mean to gather from the PTB. I disagree. Their primary purpose of the PTB is a larger test for bugs and see what we can (and will abuse). You are being unrealistic (as many people are) about the PTB. Do they suggest we give feedback? Sure. That doesn't mean any of it will have any weight whatsoever. They have been coding and doing their internal testing for months. They aren't going to, in the short period from PTB to release, make ANY major changes. By the time they do the PTB they are pretty happy (so far) with what the have. This is what they are doing in this order:
- Test for bugs.
- Test for abusive exploits they missed.
- Looking for Map interface issues.
- Gauging general feedback on cosmetic look (remember cosmetics are very important to them financially).
- Engaging in some minor PR where they make us FEEL like we are involved in the decisions.
Notice that I put our feedback as at the bottom and really only as part of a PR stunt. I want to stress again, that they have already made all their major choices and any changes they make they had already considered beforehand. The only exception are minor changes that require no real coding effort. I submit they already have a change they intend to do, already coded, for after the test. They just hold it off for after the test so it appears the test had a purpose beyond numbers 1-4 above. :)
Does this sound cynical? That is because it is cynical; that doesn't make it any less true. It is my opinion that the PR stunt is an outdated thing that video game companies do, but should discontinue. The level of entitlement people have on the internet these days makes it counterproductive to give them any inclination that they get a say. All that happens (as we have proven here at DbD) is they get angry if every single thing they suggested isn't adopted. Since nobody really agrees on anything, you are assured that you are going to piss off a percentage of them anyway. Had they NOT done the PTB and just released him, and asked for feedback, we would have given it with less "slighted" outrage and they would have said, we are going to take your suggestions into our future hotfixes and reworks. The outcome would have been the same but with less whining on our part. There is ZERO PR value in playtests today. That is the reality.
They would have been far better off just teasing all the cosmetics and dropped him. The same people would have said what they don't like, and they would have said, "we are on it" and all of us would have accepted that it would come about in the future updates. Again, far better approach. The only thing they would lose is numbers 1-3 above, and that can be satisfied with broader internal testing, perhaps by asking certain players to take part by private invite. There are lots of ways to achieve their goals without the PTB that just triggers every entitled yahoo who comes to this Forum.
Let's address your final point, i.e. that people asked for buffs and got nerfs. You go on to say they deserve criticism. I don't disagree with you. I think that by doing the PTB and PRETENDING to ask for suggestions, they are setting themselves up for criticisms when they don't take our advice. I gave a critique too. The difference between mine and that of many others is that I was more constructive about it. I also don't feel entitled to anything. I don't think they are beholden to use my suggestions. They asked; I gave. They went another way. Does that mean I have the right to critique them? Sure. Does that mean I have justification to be angry? No. Does that mean I should be rude or obnoxious? No. Was I wronged in anyway? No. That is the crux of the problem. Many of you act like you were WRONGED somehow, because they didn't take your suggestions. I am pointing out that you were not wronged; you can simply choose not to play the Trickster.
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The point of the PTB since inception as been to gauge player feedback on major additions and changes. This has been the case since 2016. No one is being “unrealistic,” this is what they have said multiple time is used to gather feedback and implement improvements before release.
but sure ya cosmetics amirite
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The name alone should clue you in
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Has it been? Has it REALLY? If you go back through the PTB for the last 2+ years you will find that the changes based on Player feedback are almost a zero sum game. While I agree with you that they were, at the start, a bit more inclusive of the feedback they received, that has not been the case for a LONG time. I submit that everything I said before is accurate and has been accurate for two going on three years. The PTB's purpose is NOT what you think. That is what you ASSUME. The proof is in the pudding and, sadly, it supports my cynical supposition, not your optimistic view.
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It took all of like a half hour for Trickster to just plain annoy me. "Oh, a smug human femboi who throws knives. Very cool. Infinite projectile spam is also lots of fun".
Honestly if they (hypothetically) put it to a vote, I'd click "Yes, please delete this character immediately". I enjoyed the game more when his irritating presence wasn't in it.
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