DS nerf needs addressing
Imo the nerf isn’t completely awful as I definitely still popped it on a few killers here and there but let me ask you this why even slot it? In higher rank survivor gameplay most good survivors off a hook will try to pop a gen/make a good play before a heal but DS deactivating upon healing self/others, totems, gens entices you to be an inefficient teammate. I can see the argument “the perk did need re-work” but the better option is to say perks like resilience might be an even easier slot than before knowing that if your not on a gen/healing after a hook your pretty much dead anyways lol. I got my DS off maybe 2-3 times in some well needed non BT saves but beyond that seemed lackluster what do you guys think.
Comments
-
I think it still does its job of punishing the killer for tunneling which is what it's always meant to do.
If you can work on a gen then you aren't getting tunneled so you can continue to progress the game. It's meant to be a shield against tunnelers. I dont expect it to be used if killer is playing fair.
46 -
If you're the kind of survivor that likes to jump on gens the moment you're off a hook then don't take it. Use iron will, DH, off the record, resilience etc instead.
For survivors that like to play safer its there to stop the killer from easily and quickly being able to tunnel someone out of the game.
16 -
New ds takes thought and planning to be effective. Old ds essentially let you make bad decisions without a care because it protected you. Where before you may have just hopped on a heal or gen, you now have to actually weigh your options, which I feel is more appropriate for a survival game.
22 -
It still does its job
9 -
DS is an anti-tunnel perk. If you have time to heal, repair a gen, or whatever else, you arent being tunneled.
26 -
People mistake tapping a gen to stop regression the same as repairing a gen.
Make it so you have to work on the gen for a few(and i mean a few) seconds before DS gets deactivated. It should also start the cooldown after another survivor is hooked.
0 -
you are still repair a gen then
9 -
Nah, kicking the gen takes like 2.5 seconds and you want someone to be able to tap one while invincible to remove the little payoff the killer gets by doing so. Should stay the way it currently is
11 -
If it was designed the way it is now when it first came out no one would be bitching.
10 -
The perk got nerfed for precisely the reason you are complaining: people abused it and forced it. You aren't ever supposed to be able to use it unless you're getting tunneled.
If you're reaching for a perk to replace it, everyone's been going with Adrenaline, because it rewards genrushing and kicks killers when they're down. Hard.
12 -
yep
4 -
It's 100% balanced now. Been playing this game for 3yrs and I said when I used the perk the first time that it was broken af. I play both sides and for killer it's beyond annoying and as survivor it just makes the game easy mode. It's a legit anti-tunnel perk now... If the killer really wants you then you have every right to use it on them but if you're injured run and hop on a gen in my face it 100% should go away. All I gotta say is live with the changes... Go try out a different build for once and stop relying on a busted perk.
8 -
The only thing I wish wouldn't deactivate DS is healing yourself because technically it's not a game objective it's a survival tactic so you don't go down in one hit off hook.
The only way I've been able to get it off lately is by jumping in a locker to force a grab otherwise killers just leave you slugged and wait out the DS timer after they down you which is just so dumbbb.
But otherwise I think DS is fine now. It has to be like this since old version let you get away with murder as the survivor LOL
1 -
Lmao that guy xD. I also seem to mistake rescue survivors while repairing a gen :x
3 -
Kinda like if you can do a gen or fully heal, you aren't being tunneled
6 -
the perk still saved me many times when the killer jsut went after me, and still is the best EGC perk.
1 -
working on a gen, yes, healing, no. It is quite simple to be tunneled and still heal, like on paletts, or if you try to juke the killer. You can use that while he tunnels you. Also, if you get away and try to heal, and the killer comes back to the hook or follows you where you did go, he is still tunneling, even if you are not in a chase then. Yes, you had time to heal yourself for 2 seconds, but still.
I believe healing oneself should only deactivate ds once you are fully healed again.
Edit: also i saw DS used several time yesterday, and in 2 cases it let the user escape through the exit gate after being unhooked. Its not useless.
1 -
If you get tunneled a lot, run DS. 100% of it's anti tunnel functionality is still intact. If you don't want to run it now all of a sudden because it only acts as anti tunnel, one has to question your real reason for running it in the first place.
8 -
How about healing when it's appropriate to do so? It's the same concept behind not unhooking survivors directly in front of the killer.
If you find that your self healing is getting interrupted, then find a teammate to heal you instead. That way they get some altruism, you retain DS until fully healed, and they can tank a hit for you if needed.
7 -
The thing is that ds was boosting swfs and good solos more than they are boosted. A high caliber team(2 pc swf and 2console swf for example)with ds and all the meta perks will make you sweat from the beginning and multiple gens will fly in no time. When the gens are done and the gates are 99’d and you down some of them,the guy that has been hooked before the last one will try to unhook because of ds. That play has no counter play and you will either have 1 kill or 0 kills,and trust me its a miserable match for the killer. Survivors have too many second chance perks but ds was more than that,it was an unfair perk
5 -
Make it so you have to work on a gen for a few seconds before gen regression actually stops, while we're at it.
8 -
I was gonna try to explain this to him but he seemed like a green rank killer running his mouth up these red ranks lmao. Killers still go right to a heal/gen thats been touched for fraction of a second and think DS should deactivate lol. This is why you guys get T-bagged and flashed at gates.
0 -
If you were ever in an swf/solo and you ever unhooked me and ran across the map to keep your DS up instead of healing/gen rushing I would drop you from group so fast I swear these comments are green ranks. This is what im talking about guys, you seem to be to focused on the perk itself as oppose to thinking how it will have use which it doesnt now. You guys are making way to specific situations that dont happen in high rank gameplay.People out here saying “just dont do gens or heal or anything except hide in a locker it works perfect” lmao yall are green ranks.
1 -
You said accidentally. I did not. Tapping a gen is NOT "Working on a gen". Its tapping it. Working on it requires it to progress. Its been a thing since day 1 release to tap the gen to stop it from regressing. This is a strat, like tunneling, camping and slugging. All 3 have specific perks(albeit mostly useless). You wanna stop Gen tapping, use Ruin.
DS has a specific niche, because its the ONLY Anti tunneling perk. I don't even use it but seriously, tapping a gen shouldn't deactivate it. That's as bad as punishing the killer for camping. Which is a legit strat even tho i cant flippin stand it.
0 -
Do you think 3/4 survs escape more than killers get 1/0k? This is not miserable?
0 -
Why run it? You run it if you don't like being tunneled after being unhooked
2 -
Tapping a gen is putting progress into said gen. If it wasnt then gen tapping when old ruin was a thing wouldnt have worked. If its just a tap whats to say that tapping it over and over again until completion isnt you working on a gen?
4 -
First off, I'm an experienced rank 1 killer and survivor. Don't assume that anyone with an opposing view has less hours/skill in this game than you.
Secondly, any competent survivor wouldn't make any playstyle decisions based on keeping their DS up. I was responding to someone who was giving excuses as to why DS shouldn't deactivate in certain situations, because it seems like his playstyle revolves around it entirely.
Thirdly, DS still quite clearly does have a use. A single use mind you. To give you a one-time chance against a killer who tries to you straight off the hook, That's it. It's one, single, intended use. It's up to you to find a use for it within your build.
You seem to want it to allow you to achieve other objectives, unmolested.
Sometimes it's better to keep quiet and have people think your stupid rather than open your mouth and prove them right.
2 -
Why would anyone carry a perk that has no purpose lol
0 -
Survivors: "DS isn't worth bringing if I can't use it for everything"
Also Survivors: "Everyone's tunneling because we all feel like DS isn't worth bringing!"
6 -
Perk works perfectly for me, but I also never did the "unbreakable/ds do a gen in your face" thing-
1 -
Almost nothing has changed with the perk. They still run at you with DS or body block, which doesn't deactivate the perk. They can also just hang around a gen or another person and act like they were healing or doing a gen, only for you to down them and get DS'd because you couldn't have seen that they were faking you out. Also, locker DS is still in tact. You're either gonna tunnel vision that person or let them get away/get on a gen for free.
0 -
So, you advocate to play swf instead of solo. Because in solo, you cant even rely on people healing you, and tanking a hit for you while still unhooked and you are injured and on death hook is still a rare thing (if enough gens are done at least). I play only solo, and i experienced that time and again.
But i run ds next to never anyway, even before the change (only if i have a daily or challange with a survivor with no "better" perks), so it really does not affect myself. But still this things do happen.
0 -
Nice strawman argument there. In no way did I advocate for anyone to play SWF.
It's easy enough to find other survivors in the game. There are even some perks you can equip to help.
Unless you are playing at low ranks, it's pretty rare for other survivors not to heal you. Everyone is usually greedy for BP's and altruism.
If you rarely run DS, then why are you bothered by the nerf?
1 -
i feel you can still be targeted/tunnelled even if you hop on a gen after getting unhook, they should have made it so if someone gets hooked while your ds is active then it cancels.
0 -
If you have time to hop on a gen, then how could you possibly be getting tunnelled?
2 -
as you said on my forum, we all have different answers to things, i think tunnelling is when the killer either only goes for you after you get unhooked or if the killer cant catch someone else when they go for you, you could think different but i dont see how ds needed that major of a debuff??
0 -
DS needed a nerf for several reasons. The fact the if all 4 survivors ran it, the as I a killer you would have to deal with some incredibly unfair situations. Potentially four instances of 5 second stuns. Four full minutes of invulnerability for the survivors. Loss of pressure for the killer.
When you add perks like unbreakable and soulguard to this, you are basically denying the killer the opportunity to down, hook and kill survivors.
2 -
maybe they should limit the stun and time, now that you've said that i understand a little more but i still dont really agree that ds needed that big of a nerf, if they made stun time lower, ds timer lower and cancelled it when another surv is hooked, it would still be a good perk to run but killers wouldnt be unfairly dsed 24/7
0 -
The problem is that if they nerfed the stun time, then it would most definitely be useless for survivors.
Depending on the map, it can already be hard enough to make it to a pallet with the 5 second stun.
1 -
old DS was a crutch perk
0 -
Gen tapping shouldnt even exist. Instead make it so that survivor needs to work on it for the same time as long is kicking gen animation to start progress on it again. Proem solved
2 -
Sorry an action that takes 1 frame on on side and 2 to 2,5 seconds is not a strat but poor programming/balancing. Especially with the fact that an anti gen tap perk aka overcharge is portable with a tap during a chase. They should make it so that killer can also m1 a gen while passing by to make it fair.
And stopping regress is passively making progress. If the untapped gen regresses for a minute that's 15 seconds to catch back up.
1 -
Or make it so that killer can start regress with a m1 tap while passing it during a chase so they are equal?
0 -
The thing is even in the event the last hooked survivor gets unhooked and they unhook another survivor hooked prior to them with bt then both survivor are safe from rehooking just like old bt gave both survivor protection. A lose/lose scenario made even worse when the last unhooked has bt PLUS ds and both can Bodyblock to kingdom come. Only to make it ultimately miserable during egc combined with unbreakable and relative close doors.
Edit: I sometime hate autocorrect on mobile.
0 -
Neither address just DS, as giving that kind of mechanic would be detrimental to the game. Allow me to explain.
The ability for the killer to "tap" the Gen would be abused harder than when BHVR actually tried to punish campers. Delete Brutal Strength? Hm ok..
They'd have to nerf Surge and Thrilling Tremors alone, because those together would completely break the game and you two wouldn't have anybody to play against because people will straight up uninstall lol
From my experience in KYF, using Repressed Alliance doesn't hinder Surge regressing a gen. There is way too much to change to ask to introduce that type of mechanic(someone correct me if this was fixed bc it sure isnt in any patch notes ive read). Problem solved, but more problems created. The Devs even said, 2k2e is what they want. So don't expect a 4k and I won't expect to survive every game? Now if you breathe wrong, DS is deactivated. No point in using it now, and killers know it. There is almost no fear of DS anymore.
To stop it regressing, especially if you have Pop. Why are you tunneling someone? Especially if they were immediately unhooked in your face, since that kind of behavior is typically what solo players do when they're farming somebody. If this was during EGC, there would be no gen to tap, thus making the argument null. Honestly, unless youre nurse during an actual chase and a survivor stops to tap the gen, kick it again and keep chasing? The tap didn't do anything but stop it from regressing, kicking it again furthers regression and starts it regressing again. The survivor tapping the gen actually did you a favor, but you aren't thinking logically when it comes to time management as a killer.
0 -
First, i usually play in red rank, mostly rank 2/3, and it becomes much more common, because a lot of solo survivors dont care about teamwork anymore and try to genrush each game, thus they are not healing you. If your experience is different, it might be a regional thing, since i have lots of russian players in my games, and they tend to play that way.
The change doesnt bother me as much as you seem to think, i just bring up a point i belive is valid, even if it just effects me secondarily (because survivors that run it start to play different).
0 -
I agree. Lets just remove it.
1 -
Okay can you please elaborate on your last point of the survivor even doing a favor with the gen tap because I seem to overlook something if the killer is not running pop?
I already addressed the point that stopping regress is passively making progress by hindering additional work on the gens. Even a 30 second chase without a tap equals 7,5 seconds of work, 10% of a full gen and more if it takes longer for the survivors to get back to the gen.
0 -
Tunneling has increased 10 fold in every game I played since nerf. Along with everybody using Star Struck. Yeah, we all new the nerf was BS killer sided but you know, boo hoo. All the nerf has done is make tunneling and slugging easier. It did need a change, a good healthy change... this nerf wasnt it.
0
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
