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Decisive Strike change

brokedownpalace
brokedownpalace Member Posts: 8,823
in General Discussions

Decisive Strike

Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.

Once per trial, while in the Killer's grasp, once the wiggle meter has reached 33%, succeed a skill check to escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 3 seconds. You enter a 10/15/20 second bleedout timer.

If the survivor takes any damage during the bleed-out timer or if the bleed-out timer ends, they will be put into the dying state.

After recovering from the stun the killer will will receive Haste for 20 seconds.

With this change:
- no survivor perks will affect being the obsession. This will now be entirely random with each survivor having an equal chance of being the obsession
- the requirement to break free from the killer's grasp has been made uniform for all tiers. No more immediate skill checks. You must plan ahead to get yourself far enough away from a hook to be able to reach 33%
- the stun will be a flat 3 seconds and will no longer be affected by Enduring
- survivors will receive the Borrowed Time effect and can do their best to extend the chase, evade the killer, heal, potentially escape, etc.

Why? The devs said on stream that they thought the perk should come with more risk and be fun for both sides. I think the perk will still be powerful for survivors but the risks will be greater and the killer can actually use that Haste effect for whatever they choose (it will stack with Bloodlust, NOED and other perks affecting speed) and they have more ways of counter playing without the need of perks or dribbling.

I'm sure I missed something/I will probably get slammed but I thought this was a step in the right direction for the perk.

Comments

  • TheEliteTurtle
    TheEliteTurtle Member Posts: 108

    I think this is a pretty neat change. I like how this addresses the issue of DS being a "get out of jail free card". My DS change suggestion would be similar to this one. Nice work.

  • Malakir
    Malakir Member Posts: 799
    Barron said:

    @Judgement said:

    @Barron said:
    With the current balance of the game, D-Strike doesn't need to be changed. The perk isn't overpowered, it's just good. All you need to do is run enduring and the perk is a joke. Also, there are counters like juggling to hook.

    'Being able to restart a chase after being caught is not overpowered'.
    Yeah, okay.

    "With the current balance of the game"? You evidently don't know how badly this game is balanced - against Killers.
    Decisive Strike is undeniably broken. You might have scrubs who get downed the instant they get off the Killer's shoulder because they didn't plan out a route to go after getting off, but if the person who's using it is a god looper, the perk is broken.
    Decisive Strike lets you restart a chase after you've been caught. The worst part of it, is that everyone can use the perk.
    That last point should not be the case - there should only be one Survivor in the trial who can use Decisive Strike to escape; the Obsession. Non-Obsession Decisive Strike users should only cause the stun that BHVR are (or were) looking at. Or they should not have it at all.

    You really need to take a better look at the state of this game, man.

    Sure. Then lets get rid of NOED too. Since everyone can use that perk and it rewards terrible play during the entire game while giving you a huge boost to both speed and one hit at the end of game.

    I don't see how "restarting the chase" as a one time deal is a bad thing. It happens once most games. As I said, just run enduring and it's not even an issue. I don't think a game is fun when you balance the survivors around only being able to run in straight lines. But from your rhetoric, you're an extremist. tons of people like you on these forums.

    I've never seen the game so dead in the last few days. Could it be fatigue from overplay with 2 events in a row? Maybe. Could it be because the game has gone into stare at a progress bar simulator in the name of "balance", maybe? We'll see.

    All i know is that they are probably killing their game because they listen to people like you, who are heavy weigh pseudo-intellectuals.

    Stop comparing noed to DS. You can prevent noed before it activate, like any hex, devour hope for example. Just do 5 totems as a team and you're OK. With these totem spawns isn't even a challebge to find them

    You can't prevent DS,you can play around it dribbling or in some cases just eat it, in either case you ain't disabled the perk like it I or survivors cleansing totems

    Just say, use undressing, its like saying "use deja vu against the 3 gens patrol tactic" 

    Sorry how is the game dead? I Insta find games in both sides, the longest time I had to wait was 1min. Idk maybe you're talking about another game

    -  don't see how "restarting the chase" as a one time deal is a bad thing. It happens once most games. As I said, just run enduring and it's not even an issue. I don't think a game is fun when you balance the survivors around only being able to run in straight lines. But from your rhetoric, you're an extremist. tons of people like you on these forums.-

    You just played yourself. "I don't think its fun if you balance the survivor being able to run just in straight lines' theb say 'you're an extremist" omg are you serious?
  • Avariku
    Avariku Member Posts: 608
    I would much prefer to main killer, since I'm sick of waiting through the lobby and load times just to get face-camped and repeat the process...
    but everytime I open a lobby as killer, I end up walking away to make food or something while I wait for it to fill. 
    (xbox one player, so maybe that's why, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm forced to play survivor if I want to play more than 2 rounds a night after work and most of those end up with lazy campers.)
  • Malakir
    Malakir Member Posts: 799
    Avariku said:
    I would much prefer to main killer, since I'm sick of waiting through the lobby and load times just to get face-camped and repeat the process...
    but everytime I open a lobby as killer, I end up walking away to make food or something while I wait for it to fill. 
    (xbox one player, so maybe that's why, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm forced to play survivor if I want to play more than 2 rounds a night after work and most of those end up with lazy campers.)
    Stealth. That's it, just loop and when you force him to break the pallet just hide
  • Malakir
    Malakir Member Posts: 799
    Dudddd said:
    Can’t go a day without seeing a baby killer demanding DS nerf .
    can't go a day without seeing a baby survivor asking for noed Nerf

    It goes both ways duuudd
  • brokedownpalace
    brokedownpalace Member Posts: 8,823
    Dudddd said:
    Can’t go a day without seeing a baby killer demanding DS nerf .
    Lol I'm a pretty blatant survivor main.
  • KingB
    KingB Member Posts: 747
    The only way to make this perk balanced without reworking it completely is making the survivor affected by the broken status for about 30 seconds or so and making a bleed out timer for whatever the duration of broken is. 
  • Shadoureon
    Shadoureon Member Posts: 493

    Glad we had a stream where they showed less than 50% survival rate on all platforms. This proofs that all the killers crying for nerfs on the forum are just bad killers.

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  • Laakeri
    Laakeri Member Posts: 835

    @Shadoureon said:
    Glad we had a stream where they showed less than 50% survival rate on all platforms. This proofs that all the killers crying for nerfs on the forum are just bad killers.

    If DS was gutted that would mean survivors might actually have to become good instead of relying on crutch so the change would most likely increase the survival rate.

  • Animalheadskull
    Animalheadskull Member Posts: 478
    brokedownpalace said:

    Decisive Strike

    Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.

    Once per trial, while in the Killer's grasp, once the wiggle meter has reached 33%, succeed a skill check to escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 3 seconds. You enter a 10/15/20 second bleedout timer.

    If the survivor takes any damage during the bleed-out timer or if the bleed-out timer ends, they will be put into the dying state.

    After recovering from the stun the killer will will receive Haste for 20 seconds.

    With this change:
    - no survivor perks will affect being the obsession. This will now be entirely random with each survivor having an equal chance of being the obsession
    - the requirement to break free from the killer's grasp has been made uniform for all tiers. No more immediate skill checks. You must plan ahead to get yourself far enough away from a hook to be able to reach 33%
    - the stun will be a flat 3 seconds and will no longer be affected by Enduring
    - survivors will receive the Borrowed Time effect and can do their best to extend the chase, evade the killer, heal, potentially escape, etc.

    Why? The devs said on stream that they thought the perk should come with more risk and be fun for both sides. I think the perk will still be powerful for survivors but the risks will be greater and the killer can actually use that Haste effect for whatever they choose (it will stack with Bloodlust, NOED and other perks affecting speed) and they have more ways of counter playing without the need of perks or dribbling.

    I'm sure I missed something/I will probably get slammed but I thought this was a step in the right direction for the perk.

    This idea would make the perk completely useless, but I guess that's what everyone thinks of about balance 
  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,101

    @Barron said:
    With the current balance of the game, D-Strike doesn't need to be changed. The perk isn't overpowered, it's just good. All you need to do is run enduring and the perk is a joke. Also, there are counters like juggling to hook.

    Incoming killer mains, your mission objective is to survive (I agree with this btw)

  • brokedownpalace
    brokedownpalace Member Posts: 8,823
    Lol @ the perk being useless. First of all, it includes buffs. You are no longer more likely to be the obsession so less likely to be tunneled. The killer will not know if you have DS so you'll have the element of surprise. Enduring can no longer drastically reduce the stun time. Buff for non-obsession users, especially at tiers 1 and 2.

    All this does it make it a much more uniform, situational perk that requires strategy to use effectively while making it less obnoxious for the killer. Would it reduce people using it? Probably. And that's a good thing. But save it for the right time and it's still incredibly powerful.

    I both find the perk terrible as a survivor (other than Adrenaline I think one-time use perks are generally not worth a slot unless you're going for a particular build) and a killer (if you're in a pallet city and you don't use one of the top killers then you can get looped for 2 gens just to down them and they have DS so there goes 1-2 more gens. It's dumb). DS greatly punishes killers that don't use meta/crutch perks like Ruin, NOED, and BBQ and don't use a top tier OP killer like Nurse and Billy. So don't complain when most killers carry some combination of the most popular perks if you're gonna carry DS, a perk that has the power to waste an incredible amount of time and in some cases make a 1-2 minute chase completely null and void.

    The less crutches in this game, the better it will be for everyone. And yeah idc if NOED can be countered by cleansing totems, it's still a perk people rely on when they are not good and it exists because of flaws in the base game design, like objectives being too easy or some killers being terrible in a chase.
  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    Decisive Strike, what a neverending story... I wrote SIX change/rework proposals about it: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30297/decisive-strike-possible-changes-reworks

    Is there anything useful to end this boring war between survivors and killers?

  • iceman2kx
    iceman2kx Member Posts: 462

    @Barron said:
    With the current balance of the game, D-Strike doesn't need to be changed. The perk isn't overpowered, it's just good. All you need to do is run enduring and the perk is a joke. Also, there are counters like juggling to hook.

    Na man, D strike is broke. I don't know why people try to to sit here and come up with excuses with why it's not broken. Second, juggling is not a counter because it doesn't work all the time. If juggling doesn't work all the time, then it's not a counter is it? I'm sure we can all agree with that logic. What if the survivor is no where near a hook? Should I just leave him slugged and say slugging is a counter because that seems to be the logic D-Strike users lean towards? What if a non-obsession has D-strike?

    If it's one thing I've learned in my gaming history, if one ability raises this much controversy, it's usually broken in some way. The problem isn't D-strike directly, it's how fast generators are completed and how much D-strike delays a hook (not ending a chase and not applying pressure). I'm not really gonna go over all of D-strike's flaws because this is already a well-known problem for killer side, but we knew all that already didn't we?

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200
    edited November 2018

    @brokedownpalace said:
    Decisive Strike

    Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.

    Once per trial, while in the Killer's grasp, once the wiggle meter has reached 33%, succeed a skill check to escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 3 seconds. You enter a 10/15/20 second bleedout timer.

    If the survivor takes any damage during the bleed-out timer or if the bleed-out timer ends, they will be put into the dying state.

    After recovering from the stun the killer will will receive Haste for 20 seconds.

    With this change:

    • no survivor perks will affect being the obsession. This will now be entirely random with each survivor having an equal chance of being the obsession

    • the requirement to break free from the killer's grasp has been made uniform for all tiers. No more immediate skill checks. You must plan ahead to get yourself far enough away from a hook to be able to reach 33%

    • the stun will be a flat 3 seconds and will no longer be affected by Enduring

    • survivors will receive the Borrowed Time effect and can do their best to extend the chase, evade the killer, heal, potentially escape, etc.

    Why? The devs said on stream that they thought the perk should come with more risk and be fun for both sides. I think the perk will still be powerful for survivors but the risks will be greater and the killer can actually use that Haste effect for whatever they choose (it will stack with Bloodlust, NOED and other perks affecting speed) and they have more ways of counter playing without the need of perks or dribbling.

    I'm sure I missed something/I will probably get slammed but I thought this was a step in the right direction for the perk.

    So 4 DS in a team means 4*23=92 seconds delay. One survivor needs 80 sec at a gen, mhm......

    I missed the stream so im not sure about all the details, but what about activation of DS?
    Almsot sounds like the slug meta is coming back :lol:

  • Unicorn
    Unicorn Member Posts: 2,340

    Why can't we all just suggest things to each other without ripping the other a new a**hole  :(

  • Keene_Kills
    Keene_Kills Member Posts: 649
    Enduring doesn't help against DS nearly as much as folks like to pretend, as the stun itself is short compared to the actual animation, which is the majority of the downtime. It really doesn't help at all.

    Not that it matters right now; they stated they dunno ######### to do with it and there's no changes in the near future, so juggle on or grit your teeth and take it.
  • brokedownpalace
    brokedownpalace Member Posts: 8,823
    Keene_Kills said:
    Enduring doesn't help against DS nearly as much as folks like to pretend, as the stun itself is short compared to the actual animation, which is the majority of the downtime. It really doesn't help at all.

    Not that it matters right now; they stated they dunno ######### to do with it and there's no changes in the near future, so juggle on or grit your teeth and take it.
    It doesn't help at all? Come on. The survivor can't move during the drop animation, either. Let's not be ridiculous.
  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,101

    @Entità said:
    Decisive Strike, what a neverending story... I wrote SIX change/rework proposals about it: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30297/decisive-strike-possible-changes-reworks

    Is there anything useful to end this boring war between survivors and killers?

    uhh, not caring about the perk because sometimes you cannot land it and on some maps you can force survivors to get cornered when using it

  • Keene_Kills
    Keene_Kills Member Posts: 649
    edited November 2018
    Never said it doesn't help at all... said it doesn't help enough to justify mentioning it as any type of counter. We know this, yet we still have folks who think otherwise and bring it up every time DS is posted about on here, so about 10x daily.

    Edit: I totally said it didn't help at all at the end there LoL But you get the point beyond nitpicking... it's not a counter.
  • KingSavageGaming
    KingSavageGaming Member Posts: 148
    What people fail to realize is that problem with the perk is survivor getting off the killers shoulder the killers don't have time to waste chasing a survivor that should've been on a hook. 
  • Carpemortum
    Carpemortum Member Posts: 4,506
    KingSavageGaming said:
    What people fail to realize is that problem with the perk is survivor getting off the killers shoulder the killers don't have time to waste chasing a survivor that should've been on a hook. 
    Well if you look at first chase time it may not be so bad. If you catch someone and down them in 20 seconds its nbd. If you wasted 3 mins chasing and they DS you, well you shouldnt have chased that long imo. Especially the obsession. Unless you run dying light.