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If a killer does it, It's garbage / If a survivor does it it's a fair tactic to win.
I play both side of the game, more survivor then killer but I have noticed a pattern. As the topic suggests if a killer and survivor do the same things it's treated very differently.
here are some examples
- killer puts everyone down with no way for them to save one another = slugging and that's a crime
- survivors rush gens and finish the game in a few minutes = get better at finding us
- a killer camps a hook knowing there someone there to rescue the hooked = insults and loss of emblem points
- survivors body block to make hooking someone impossible = It's a tactic to win get over it
- a killer face camps someone = don't worry about it you can unhook from any side; killer can only hook from the front. Oh and grabs don't work properly half the time.
- survivors blind a killer while they're in an animation of breaking a pallet = all good just bring light born.
- The thing won't let me type without the bullets now but whatever. The devs have flat out said that tunneling and camping is a valid tactic; if that's the case answer me this. Why did they change the game to punish killers for being in the proximity of the hooked person? Why did they change the game mechanics so you can unhook someone from any side but the killer can still only hook from the front? If body blocking is a fair tactic for survivors and hooks the killer should be able to do it too. Mind you I don't do these things if I can help it as a killer because I know how annoying they really are.
- I've noticed for a few of the things survivors don't like the team has gone in and changed the game mechanics and scoring system to discourage and protect against it. However anything killers don't like; they throw out perks to counter it. If you don't have access to those perks for whatever reason on a all your killers too bad, but survivors; we'll change how the game plays for you. Yes some perks have been changed and just look at all the topics complaining about it and how unfair people think it is.
- The one game mechanic changed against survivors in all the time I've been playing is no longer getting free chase points from and AFK killer.
Comments
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The red pill is bitter.
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Survivors spend more on cosmetics and are a huge majority of players. Killer players are a minority and don’t spend a lot of money due to the first person look. So less killers due to the problems you listed, means less money for the company, means the company just listens to survivors more cause they spend more. It’s a vicious cycle.
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I've noticed for a few of the things survivors don't like the team has gone in and changed the game mechanics and scoring system to discourage and protect against it. However anything killers don't like; they throw out perks to counter it. If you don't have access to those perks for whatever reason on a all your killers too bad, but survivors; we'll change how the game plays for you. Yes some perks have been changed and just look at all the topics complaining about it and how unfair people think it is.
?
-What about the Endgame collapse removing hatch stand offs and survivors holding the game hostage after all the gens were done?
-The removal of almost all the god windows
-Removal of pallet vacuum
-Insta Flashlights
Etc.
Survivors are also forced to equip certain perks to deal with unfun tactics like camping,tunneling,slugging (Borrowed Time,Decisive Strike,Unbreakable)
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If survivors rush Gens, they don't get many BP's either. In fact that's why AFK killers are so annoying. You miss out an opportunity for an entire category of points. I'll never understand players who's goal is to win as fast as possible so they can get back to the lobby. It's why I never bring BNP's or Toolboxes unless I've got a rift challenge (in which case I bring a brown toolbox and use it up immediately)
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you missed the point of my list, I said there were some examples and it's based on when I started playing. the EGC came in shortly after I started so I didn't think of that. and If I were to list everything it would take forever. I listed the ones I run into the most.
yeah I do the same. the same rule goes for killers too, I don't understand why some of them want to end the game so quickly either they get less points for not hooking enough and not chasing so to rush a game hurts both sides.
It's more the attitude of players then anything. No matter what side you play sometimes you can just tell people are doing things to annoy you,
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It's incomparable to compare killers to survivors, because, in case you didn't notice, this is an asymmetrical game. Comparing survivors blinding killers to facecamping is like comparing apples to moldy oranges (getting blinded is a blessing, most times. As long as you have ears you can hear and trace the survivor, and they just end up losing distance).
Instead, you can make approximations based off of nothing but how powerful the tool is. Tunneling is boring, but it's the most efficient way to play the game. Same thing with keys. Hitting someone on hook is a symbolic gesture of disrespect with no actual consequences. It may actually be to your detriment by giving survivors a chance to save. Same thing with teabagging at the gates; get a NOED deathslinger and watch them wet themselves. Getting blinded in animations is hiding your read stain by moonwalking. The list goes on. There are no perfect analogues.
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Wowee here we go again.
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What's the point of your list then?
It just sounds like a "survivor bad" kind of thread to me.
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I'm pretty sure a lot of killers do it so they can de pip and go against less sweaty survivors.
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In 2200+ hours i came to the conclusion, that everything survivors do is considered fair and totally acceptable. While everything the killer does is considered scummy or toxic. Those things include your list but is not limited to it.
- killer farming with the survivors, because someone disconnected or suicided on the first hook? Reported.
- killer not farming with the survivors, because someone disconnected or suicided on the first hook? Despictable being that deserves all kind of insults + Reported.
- killer letting the last survivor go through the hatch? Horrible person that obviously worked with the survivor = reported,
- killer not letting the last survivor go through the hatch? Despictable being that deserves all kind of insults.
- killer using NOED while survivors have 4x Adrenaline? Noob killer that needs crutches, even when NOED never triggered.
- survivors using 4x Adrenaline? Totally normal phenomenon and a good tactic for SWF.
- survivors completing 3 gens by the first hook? Just apply pressure.
- killer using the original Undying Ruin and applying pressure? Noob killer that needs crutches.
The list goes on and on.
Survivors get mad at the killer when he doesn´t play to madeup rules. But also get mad, when he actually plays by them. There really is no winning in that regard. It´s also normal for survivors to haunt killers profiles and leave messages on a regular basis. I had someone post daily messages about my terrible behavior, for almost a week. Imagine being that mad about a single match.
Oh before i forget, you get rid of the dot by double pressing Enter.
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nerf pig too op
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This premise exists because survivors are the one trying to escape and have to deal with being killed, hit and sacrificed.
Killers on the other hand are there to kill and the worst they deal with is not getting those kills. So from that standpoint, everything the killer does is scummy because the act of murder is beyond being a scumbag.
But this is a game and people can't understand this.
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So you compare THE ONLY things survivors can do to TRY and win the game to stuff the Killer can do that will secure he wins?
- Killers don't get kicked out of the game if they make a mistake
- Killers don't have their team troll them because they don't have a team
- Killers don't have to share anything with anyone so bloodpoint perks will always work
- Killer perks revolve around their actual gameplay
- Killers don't have to spend hours looking for gens
- Killers don't get barely any blood points like Survivors do
The game is extremely biased towards killers and you cry about survivors being mad at unfair mechanics like camping that COMPLETLY SECURE AT LEAST ONE KILL? Meanwhile not a single thing of the stuff you listed for survivors guarantee a win.
The worst part is how you pretend Killer perks are bad when there is stuff like Bitter Murmur that literally reveals all survivors when the gates open, no matter what.
Imagine having 60k bloodpoints after every match with secured kills and ######### mechanics like camping and tunneling that can't be countered (Borrowed time just protects whoever is rescued, not the one doing the rescuing, and Leatherface chainsaw can hit twice so you completly remove borrowed time) at your disposal and still cry because some survivor said you were mean for being so bad you had to camp to get at least one single kill.
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I love how you try to criticise OP for being killer biased and then just come off as a biased survivor main in the process.
Keep doing it bud
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This threads title is probably written somewhere in the survivor's rule book for killers. It would not surprise me.
The guy has 1 post. They're probably an alt account or a complete newb. Either way I wouldn't dignify them with a response.
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It's not bias to tell the truth. Tell me when killers lose the game because killer teammates troll him or he made a mistake so he gets punished by being removed from the match or he has awful skill checks or struggle that makes him break his finger. Game has always been bias towards killers, specially because of how mindless being a killer is.
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Okay.... first of all, you aren't wrong about hypocrisy. But let's not pretend that street doesn't go both ways. I've seen plenty of killer mains tunnel happily saying "it's okay" then in the next breath whine about the gen rush. If you want to call out hypocrisy, I'm all for that and let's do it. But let's not start this "us vs them" mentality as both sides do it.
This is why I play hard and advocate that others should do the same if they are inclined but not ######### if the other side does it. If they can't handle that, they have no business playing PvP games.
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Nice fallacy, imagine being so sad your opinions revolve around a forum post count.
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the funny thing is, it doesn't sound like anything because you can't hear text. second a lot of the things I mentioned happen quite a lot and as the post above me says it's a two way street. You're reading much more into it then is there. I'm not trying to start a debate on which side is better. I'm just pointing out things that I've noticed over my 2 plus years of playing that kind of annoy me. If those same things don't annoy you that's fine but it doesn't make my feelings or stance wrong. The Hypocrisy is huge with this game we all know it.
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Never saw it this way, but makes a hell lot of sense.
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I mean there’s no reason really for killers to buy cosmetics unless it’s just to show off and flex. You don’t see it in match like survivor. You don’t get to enjoy killer like survivor, such as Jane’s thicc thighs as the camera is behind you as you run. So Killers don’t spend enough money on cosmetics, thus their complaints and issues with the game are not a top priority like survivors. Which is why I was really shocked they nerfed DS cause it’s a beloved survivor perk.
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"The one game mechanic changed against survivors in all the time I've been playing is no longer getting free chase points from and AFK killer."
So you're new here. Did you know that from 2016 all the way up to early 2018, the devs almost only nerfed survivors? Now killers are simply being addressed.
Lets step back in time:
Back in the day, it was possible for a survivor to have literal infinites, to force a killer to face camp the hatch while they had the power to finish gens and keep a killer second guessing whether they should leave the hatch allowing the survivor to jump in it or if they should search the survivor who might have gone for the exit gate instead. It was possible for survivors to literally basekit dead-hard if there was a palletm being invincible to hits. It was possible for survivors to remove hooks from the game, permanently. It was possible to insta finish generators. There was no medium vaulting, only slow and fast vaulting, let alone that vaulting as a killer was not a feasible manouvre as it was much slower than killer vaulting is right now. Exhaustion didnt exist as a mechanic, all exhaustion perks that existed up untill the exhaustion mechanic had their own cooldown, which went down even if you were running. Meaning you could run Sprintburst, Adrenaline and Balanced Landing at the same time, in succession, up to a total of 11 seconds of sprinttime, run for 40 seconds and use Sprintburst and Balanced Landing AGAIN. Once Exhaustion was added, you could only use 1 exhaustion perk at a time and like before, it went down while you were running, at best using Sprintburst and Adrenaline in quick succession(which you can still do now), but you could crouch and have a 33% increased reduction on your exhaustion, meaning you could run Urban Evasion to crouch mid-chase and crouch everytime you vaulted a window or a pallet to decrease your exhaustion much quicker.
All this has been NERFED.
What has changed for killers in the same amount of time? Trapper was no longer able to place traps in front of hooks as survivors could unhook from the sides, and Mori had been nerfed to require 1 hook state.
You know what was added in the meantime? Dying Light, which at the time, if you killed the obsession, you would reduce gen speeds by 25% for all remaining survivors. So not only do you cut survivor power down by 1/4th, you reduce individual power by 1/4th aswell, meaning if you just rushed out the obsession first thing in the game, you would effectively remove 1.75 survivors from the game. Add in the fact that old Tinkerer affected charge addons, and you have machine gun huntress and instarev Billy downing the obsession in less than a second, hook them and then mori them out of the game. Thanatophobia also affecting gens, meaning every injured survivor meant an even bigger decrease in speed. And you have a game where you can remove 2.5 survivors from the game with 2 perks, by rushing 1 kill and injuring the rest. This is one of the reasons why Thana no longer affects healing nowadays, because of some killers already giving a debuff on healing.
So yeah, killers have it rough right now, but that's simply because there are a lot of killer mechanics that are simply unfair gameplay. The same reason that survivors had it rough back then, because a lot of survivor mechanics used to be unfair gameplay.
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please, in the next time try to put less misinformation
Everthing that you said in the last lines arent true and the comparations makes no sense at all
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I also don't understand the desire to rush and win quickly (though, by contrast, I don't understand the need to deliberately drag things out past logical gameplay parameters either).
I enjoy this game the most when it's balanced and reasonably competitive, when I as either the killer or survivor are in a cat and mouse match that lasts ten minutes or more. They get a gen, I get a hook. They get an unhook, I get another victim. They get another gen. I go to grab victim three, now the other two victims have been freed but are looking to hide rather than gen rush. Regardless of which side I'm on in this type of scenario, I love it. The only matches I truly hate are the ones that end for me within just a few minutes because I can't find any damn survivors who are just gen rushing like mad, or when I'm a survivor and the killer just happens to come straight for me first and camp me or rehook me within a couple of minutes. In other words I've lost matches in as short as two and a half minutes, and they completely deflate my enthusiasm. Meanwhile I've lost matches that were 15 minutes long and I still had a great time.
As for whether the killers or survivors are better, unfair, imbalanced, etc., I see people arguing both sides a dozen times a day. As far as I'm concerned if it's not deliberately exploiting an unintended gameplay scheme (collusion, body blocking) it's a fair strategy that probably has viable counterplay.
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Some of these I disagree with such as blinding at a pallet and bodyblocking are much different to face camping. I d think you should add in exploits cause a bunch of survivor ones seem to be labeled tech and they are awesome and so skillful to pull off.
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A classic case of Double standards.
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If you play against a good killer it is very often your only option as they will punish you heavily for not doing it. It can be a shotgun in a swordfight when playing against newer killers tho.
Many survivours are bit boosted and go down really fast and give exponental snowball potential to the killer and troughout the years people have started to compensate that more and more by hyperfocusing on the objective.
Your average survivour still gets sacrificed most of the time.
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Here's the problem...
4-man slug: First person to be slugged spends 3-4 minutes not doing anything
Facecamping: Person on the hook spends 2 minutes doing nothing. All other survivors have to play 'Hold M1' simulator, getting significantly fewer points in the process.
Tunnelling: Person being tunnelled gets about a minute of playtime and gets no points.
Genrushing: Killer still gets full playtime in all regards.
The unsavoury killer tactics are generally regarded as more of a problem because they are specifically detrimental to how enjoyable the game is. They tend to eliminate people from gameplay and remove entire gameplay elements. If you facecamp a hook, you might as well be an AFK killer.
Also, I'm not sure what people mean by 'genrushing'. Outside of bringing a combo of Fast Track, Stakeout and Prove Thyself, there's not much survivors can do to actually 'rush' a gen.
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Well, the thing is the killer has every advantage over one survivor. The balance lies in the game being a 4v1. That means 2 things:
Surviors have to take a risk with unhooking, blinding, bodyblocking, because its not rare to get down trying one of those.
Killers that camp and tunnel just use their 1v1 advantage which they clearly have and try to stop the game there for that one person they got, instead of spreading his attention to give a fair game as it was meant to play. And thats why its scummy.
Think of it as any other one on one compatition like boxing, where you intentionaly pair a weak opponent vs someone 4 times better, like an 8 year old boxing beginner vs a heavywight proffessional boxer. Seems fair to you? Because thats what you doing as killer if you just ignore the rest of the players by camping and tunneling.
However, i as a solo survivor, dont agree with the "just pressure gens" argument. When i started the game, the whole pace of the game was slower, and thus a lot more relaxed for killers (part of that was due to old ruin). I liked the game better then. If the game is too fast paced for killers (and a part of that depends on the killer charakter chosen, another on the killer player) there might be an issue.
But by covering that issue up by adepting scummy tactics, they never get adressed, and the circle continues.
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Killers don't get bitched on when they take you to the hatch then drop you and close it in front of ur face Or dropping the survivor near the gates and when they're about to escape u pick them up But honestly both roles are pretty ######### ngl i play both regularly and both of them are #########
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This game has a massive amounts of double standards
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Nobody actually thinks like this, and if someone genuinely has this mindset they're probably 12.
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I've been watching a dev here lately on twitch play killer. That guy camps 85% of the time. lol Fair game I say. Play how you want to play.
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Everyone always talks about killer etiquette but never about survivor etiquette. That's why I simply ignore the rulebook and do my best to get my 4Ks. I don't mind points that much as it's definitely more satisfying getting kills than points.
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This post isn't so much red pill; it's someone who has absolutely every reason to take the red pill and they still take the blue pill.
Both sides say the same sorts of things. There is no double standard. Killers just don't have backup in post-game chat so more of them come to the forum to complain instead.
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well if the minority player base quits (killer) the majority will have no games to play = no money for BHVR
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Yes but the company isn’t thinking that far ahead. Plus there is no competition for this type of game so they believe they will always have enough killers.
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