Day 2 of Trickster and...
I'm still doing better in matches either avoiding using his power altogether, or using it only in Niche situations... save for 1 add-on combo.
Overall my impression of him being the weakest killer hasn't changed since the killers Unique power is supposed to give them an advantage, but Tricksters power, even the "Main Event" side of it, are mostly hinderances when compared to just running up and M1/basic attacking the survivors. The "Niche" situations for using said power I've mentioned are few and far between, but when they happen and the power actually does provide an advantage, then it's just barely almost redeeming (I say almost because A Huntress, Deathslinger, or Corrupt Plague have the clear advantages in most situations and make those Niche ones pure deathtraps for survivors that they conquer in far less time). An example of one of these situations is on the Ironworks of Misery map, where right next to the main building you have a single Pallet loop that's low enough for trickster to fire over, and the survivor gets pinned between the wall of the main building, the pallet, and the wall you're throwing knives over. No one thinks to just run away from that for some reason, and tend to just get themselves trapped until you down them with knives.
As for the 1 add-on combo. Honestly I thought that his Ultra Rare Iridescent Photocard was trash at first, but then I realized that it never gives survivors a sprint burst from hitting them with knives in the healthy state, and makes them exposed for 15 seconds. Basically you can spend 7 hits on the survivor and just follow up with an instant down as long as you basic attack in 15 seconds (the time it takes before the lacerations start to decay). Spend 6 or so of those shots just building up the meter, get close, hit them with the 7th, and follow up fast with a basic attack and you're downing them left and right for less blade usage. Pairing this add-on with the Ripper Brace (Rare) add-on, and you extend the time they're exposed to 18 seconds, which is a decent amount of time for you to knock them on their ass. I've also used the Diamond Cufflinks (very Rare) add-on to good effect for mind gaming them while they're exposed, but having that extra 3 seconds of exposed proved to be more ideal for me.
Again though, This Add-on Combo only emphasizes choosing to play as a 110% movement speed Basic attack killer vs. a killer that uses their power to gain advantage, and the fact that it requires an ultra rare add-on to be useful is rather sad. Killers, especially those who are already slower than average, should never feel like their power is a hinderance without some serious reward to make up for it. Trickster has all hinderance, and little to no advantage, much less reward for using his power, but we'll see how I feel after a week of "getting Gud" as him if any of these opinions change (not likely). Also his best perk is Monitor and Abuse for obvious reasons.
TL;DR -
Choosing to play as a 110% movement speed killer using basic attacks only has me doing better than trying to use his power.
The power has some niche situational uses where-in it actually provides an advantage but those are few and far between.
Best add-on combo for him IMO Iridescent Photocard + Ripper Brace, Hit the survivor with 7 knives and they become exposed for 18 seconds, giving you ample time to catch up and down them from the healthy state in most situations, but sadly this does require an Ultra Rare add-on Plus some getting used to. Also his best perk is Monitor and Abuse for obvious reasons.
The killer power should always provide a decent advantage, and if it has anything that hinders the killer, it should provide a greater reward for using it. None of this is the case for Trickster, as using his power is all hinderance, and little to no advantage much less reward. Other ranged killers pull off downing survivors in far less time without as many disadvantages or effort.
Comments
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Sadly I'm expecting him to go the way of Clown or Freddy. 2-3+ year wait before a "rework" is done because only killer mains complain about him being underpowered, and survivor mains don't complain because its "fun" (translation: easy) to play against him. I'm not asking them to make any changes to him, nor am I expecting any. I'm just expressing my overall experience trying to "git gud" with him thus far. I guess it doesn't help that I started in the red ranks (now purple 7 and a half thanx to the many losses), but If after playing him for a week or 2 I manage to hold my own in those ranks playing him, then I'll at least believe he's kinda "decent", otherwise, like the old mori's, I'm just gonna use him to de-rank on purpose if I find myself getting too frustrated in the high ranks and just want to have some fun and casual games again.
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I agree with OP. Dowsey has a video up of him doing well and his primary advice was to use the power less. I’d agree that the other 110s feel much stronger and much more useful. It really hit me watching a Tru3 video yesterday when he said after throwing one blade, then another shortly after: “this is a down with Deathslinger.”
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Here's my day 2 experience :
I've dropped a lot in elo so now I'm facing potatoes that dont seem to understand the concept of dodging, so I'm finally starting to win some games!
I've also (after more than 80 bloodwebs) started to go SOME information perks, so I slapped them all together (at rank 1 because RNG is RNG): Discordance, Tinkerer and BBQ + Pop, I'm constantly on the move and it kinda work (special mention to tinkerer that let you fool a LOT of people when it procs mid loop, they lose sight of you and dont know ######### is going on).
For me the real MVP addons are Fizz-Spin Soda (that somewhat makes his throw usable midchase and in loop) and Trick Baldes (can you believe I haven't seen a SINGLE one of thos for 65 levels to then stumbles upon dozens? RNG is garbage) that let you gain A LOT of hits you wouldn't have got otherwise.
His throw still feel painfully weak and only work on survivors that clearly dont know what's going on and his Main Event is just.... so bad man.
If at the very least it wouldn't activate automatically and you could just keep it for when you really need it rather than having it proc 9/10 when you are already blasting someone that will go down on the next blade...
But it's not just that, the slow is terrible the activation time is just clunky and way too long (it feels like have the time it wont go off when you tell it to and have to wait for the throw you are doing to stop for you to be able to start using it... it's bad, you should just be able to activate it on the fly while you are already throwing and just increase your fire rate rather than have that awkward stop).
Yeah... he is just dragging along way too many handicaps for no good reasons and even when you start mastering him you are just left wondering... why do I have to work so much for so little result?
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8 Knives for one health state is ridiculous. That's all I know.
Maybe I just haven't gotten used to him yet but in every game I've played so far, I felt like the Knives were more of a detriment to me actually downing survivors in an efficient manner -- and that's coming from someone who considers themselves to be a pretty good Huntress player.
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You have every right to ask for and demand a buff. You paid for this, the killer is simply not viable and therefore not playable. We're used to trash killers and weak killers but there are genuine infinites against Trickster. The state he's in now he is absolutely not a playable killer.
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The only time where thos blade should be used is between loops (and only if you know you'll have enough time to do a full 8 hit before the next loop, otherwise you just wasted time), which depending on the map can be totally inexistant.
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Like I said. Asking for them to buff him will fall on deaf ears because:
- Only Killer Players are complaining atm.
- Only survivor players are Ok with how he is now because he's "fun" to play against.
Survivors mains outnumber killer players by a heavy margin, and BHVR have proved time and time again that they will listen more to the requests of the masses than the minority. Take for example - Spirit's Prayer Beads add-on; It used to silence her phasing sound altogether, and within just 3 weeks of her release, that got nerfed. Or Legion, 3 months after release, nerfed to the point of being almost useless. Compare that to how long it's taken them to Rework or Buff Freddy, Clown, Wraith, Trapper, Leatherface, etc... Chances are because this is only Day 2 of them getting feedback from us about Trickster, they aren't even looking at our posts anymore.
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All killers with a speed of 110% have a power that allows you to either easily catch in loops or move quickly. And to compensate for this, killers are given such a low speed, because their power is high, compared to 115% killers. But. The Trickster has nothing. Almost all structures are high, or it is easy to hide behind them (and I will remind you that compared to Slinger or Anna, his height is average, which makes it even more difficult to hit the knives), and if you can hit with a knife, it does nothing, because it needs to be done 8 times. This is an absolute failure. I also noticed that it is easier for them to play m1 than to use power. Because in some loops you just can't do anything. I will not even say what kind of recoil he has from throwing knives, as if you were shooting from a machine gun and how he oscillates from side to side and it is very difficult to hit, especially for me, playing on the console. 0 pressure on the map 0 chase. I do not know what the developers thought, clearly not with their brain
And let's not talk about his The Main Event either, because if you didn't turn it on, you lost it. Imagine if Oni had the same? There are no words
Post edited by VSLl on7 -
Ive been able to get some use out of it, but only when it comes to avoiding Dead Hard.
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He has a very big problem where on some maps he feels okay and all the others he feels useless. Main event feels detrimental to use outside of proxy camping a hook, laceration decay forces him to commit hard to chases, even if they're very bad to continue, and he can't do anything about tight loops with high objects/walls or large buildings you can W in/around.
I think giving him 1 ricochet base kit, laceration decay either removed or only when healed/m1'd, and 4.0 or 4.2 m/s (100%, 105%) move speed during main event wouldn't make him too oppressive.
He's at least pretty fun to play against assuming you don't abuse him around things like trucks with pallets.
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His Irisdecent Photocard is good, but it still requires you to connect an M1 as a 110 killer.. which is painful and extremely difficult at certain loops or structures.
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I've only seen 4 Tricksters total, and I was playing a lot of survivor today and yesterday. I hope I can see more because only 1 of them seemed to have a good sense of the power.
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I tried him out today and yesterday as well, and having him be an M1 killer did yield better results for me too -- but I'm only at rank 15 on killer, so I'm sure it's completely different at red ranks. It was enough to get the Adept achievement at least.
However, I don't think you're actually supposed to down with the knives normally. It's been feeling like the normal knives are to herd survivors where you want them to go when you're not being looped, or punish them for not dodging, so you don't really care if they hit or not. Main Event's the only time the knife throwing is fast enough to pile on laceration quickly, and I think that's the time you're supposed to use knives to down the survivors.
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The thing is, why would you ever want to play a 110% killer like Trickster if your whole playstyle is reduced to m1 attacks? I think his greatest issue is how he has to commit so damn hard to get any value out of his knives while wasting tons of time during it. And even if he manages to lodge 8 knives into someone's back they still get a speedburst from it - why is that even a thing?
He should be a 115% killer at least, his power comes with far too many handicaps. It's beyond me why the devs haven't reacted to the overwhelming negative chapter feedback so far.
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The decay is definitly one of his main problem.
Forcing the killer to commit to a chase is one of the worst thing you could do to a killer, it makes him lose any control over the direction of the game, but it's not just that, the bloody thing decay SO FAST that in any decent loop YOU WILL get some regression midchase.
The thing should either not regress at all, or be treated like a type of mending where the survivor will have to mend for 3 seconds to remove 1 blade.
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I'd argue it's not for that reason alone, but also because of the practicality of the power itself when under that circumstance.
So say you're in a chase with a survivor and you have no way of hitting them with an M1, but you do with your knives. You'd then naturally use the knives to damage them, but if you're in a situation (with Photocard in use) that doesn't allow you to M1 them, then the add-on is effectively useless.
And from the sound of it, most players who use him have a tough time getting M1 hits (which makes sense since you're basically slightly faster than a survivor but not by much). And considering that the power can injure a survivor in this scenario while also stacking more meter ticks after the subsequent damage from the knives, it just makes more sense not to use the add-on at all.
Honestly, using Thumb Drive with Trick Knives is (in my 100% honest opinion) his best add-on set-up. Trick Knives allows you to abuse corners and hit your target from insane angels, while Thumb Drive (or whatever it's called) reduces the required knife hits to injure someone from 9 to around 6 or so.
Sometimes the Iri add-ons are less useful for general play, but that doesn't mean they're worthless either. If the Killer was just slightly faster, then I can see Photocard being annoying. But when you think about it, if you were going to injure them anyways with the knives, they're still a 1 hit down anyways.
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I'd say Thumbdrive and the Soda are equally as good, one reduce the number of hits while the other will let you get way more hits around corners, palets and windows in chase which not only increase the hit count but also help against regression.
The trick knifes are definitely mandatory tho, they will give you an insane amount of free hits even by just spamming randomly.
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Trickster reminds me of a worse version of Tier 2 Myers.
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He's an absolute meme to elite survivors. A survivor on my team ran me for 10 minutes on Coal Tower. The fastest chase I had against them was two minutes on the same map and that involved me bloodlusting for M1s rather than using the knives. This killer is physically incapable of downing anybody good in a reasonable amount of time.
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Anyone else feel like the throwing knives should have been a deck of Playing Cards? I've seen videos of professional Trick card throwers embedding the cards into vegetables from 20ft away, so they can do damage. Sure the damage amounts to little more than paper cuts, but then again, so do these "Knives". Just a thought.
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His knives are a joke. Deathslinger can damage you instantly for being out of posiition and Huntress can do the same from longer distances as liong as you're good at aiming. Trickster requires them to be out of position for multiple seconds on top of having to deal with recoil and separate aim for the left and right blades. Whoever designed Trickster's mechanics really doesn't seem to have any understanding of this game. That's not even mentioning main event which has so many problems it's not even worth using most of the time. Then there's laceration decay, when you think that knives can't get worse but they actually can.
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I feel that the knife throwing should be drastically different. Instead of spamming knives aimlessly, I feel they'd have been better off being more like Shrikurens or spears with a much slower fire rate and only needing 3 or 4 hits to land. 60 knives tells you that it is just knife spamming
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I'm actually starting to get good results with him. In certain loops, the power is great (loops with low height), other than that, just M1.
Having finally ruin+undying on him so I'm not getting rushed at all. I'm using corrupt and iron maiden too. For now, a success day.
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His power in short loops is a safe injure/down. There is almost no counterplay. A power which is most of time not worth it, but in a few circumstances without counterplay is no fun.
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This made me think that it should be a instant down with 8 blades. That way movement speed is justified but he shouldn't move slower when aiming.
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That's exactly it. The slower movement speed when throwing the knives just neuters any threat he could potentially create. They need to make it so he doesn't slow down or do something about his inconsistent trajectory/awful recoil.
Honestly, when I first saw "The Trickster's" gameplay, I was hoping he'd play sort of like Legion with projectiles. I love all the little voice-over touches they made but I find him more frustrating to play than any other killer, at this point.
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