NOED is not Problem

So its as simple as "just do bones". Yet when that is said people say that it isn't easy and what not when maps, small game, detectives hunch all exist. Truth is if you can't do well against a killer with only 3 perks until the endgame then the problem isn't noed or the killer.

The issue isn't there are no counters to what the killer can throw at you. It's that survivors don't feel like doing it.

"NOED OP!" "Why didn't you cleanse da bones?" "Aint nobody got time for that"

"BBQ is broken!" "Why didn't you jump in a locker?" "I dont wanna get off my gen" "Well why not run distortion?" "I dont wanna take off my meta perks"

I think NOED becomes an issue when you have all gens done, everyone is alive, then the killer finds one person and face camps with NOED to try to secure one kill, which happens a good bit in lower- and mid-ranked games. In these situations, there's no chance of a rescue, and if the person is on their 2nd hook, you have less than 1 minute to find the totem and make the rescue.

There should be a 2nd counter to NOED other than "cleanse everything" like a limit to the number of exposed hits or swings by the killer to have more of a meet-in-the-middle solution. Like for every hooked survivor, the killer gains a token up to a max of X, and the killer gets X many exposed m1 swings in the endgame.

It's still powerful, and it makes it more worth it to go for a hooked survivor while NOED is active.

Noed isn't a problem imo, its just highly annoying. Realistically, bones will only be done if there is undying, maybe a hex totem already, or somebody is doing a challenge. If i see it I either power through it and help other people, or if it is worthless Ieave. Nothing more than that

If the killer face camps with noed the simple solution is to find and cleanse the totem, its not impossible. If you let it get to that point then you need to understand that you must cleanse totems throughout the match or that person will die and you cant save them.

Sometimes is actually faster to just selfcare than search a totem. Especially if other people run Inner Strength too. Also, there are not enough maps for every game, so you can't rely on items.

I have just 2 problems with NOED

1. Survivors don't have a totem counter. It's easier to cleanse them in soloq if you know how many there are left.
2. It artificially inflates kill rates. If survivors are killed on their first hooks during EGC, the killer didn't perform well but kill rates suggest otherwise.

Other than that, I don't mind Noed.

NOED is not an "OP" perk. It is a perk that you can only use during endgame which means during all the match you reserve one of your perk for endgame which maybe you are not gonna be needed. Yes it is frustrating to lose a game because of NOED but on the other hand the killer did not use one of his power during whole game and because of that reason I can say that NOED is a situational perk and not "OP" perk. Being a good survivor means trying to understand the killer's perks and assume the possibilities. Like killer carry people faster so he uses Agitation, the killer came to us when we working with gens as group that means he has discordance, killer came silently during the end of the gen that means he has Tinkerer, after he hooked somebody he managed to find me so he has BBQ and so forth.... As a survivor you should try to understand his perks and depends of that situation be preapared for suprise perks like Devour or NOED. Whenever I am playing survivor I always cleanse totems due to chance of NOED and plus it gives me points which is fair.

Overall if you lose a match because of NOED well you lose it. It's simple as that. You can loop the killer,let him chase you for 5 mins, being great at saves,repairs and etc... but you can lose because of not cleansing totems. When it comes to killer I saw people are commenting like "Killer did mistake so killer loses","He chased me for 4-5 min and that is why he lose","He was not pressuring gens so he lost the match". The Noed is the answer of "You did not cleanse totem and now you lose the match". It is that pure and simple. You did mistake and lose the match by not cleansing totems. Does it harsh? Yes it is harsh but it is a game where element of suprise can affect the whole game.

Note: I play both sides. I dont rely on NOED and I dont see many killer uses NOED especially at high ranks.

It takes one person to find all 5 and 3 solo teammates who don't know all 5 are gone, leading to a wild goose chase for 3 people and one person only on gens, which will lose the game, correct. Or there are two people on totems- you don't know where the other has been, where they are, how many they've done.

Solos shouldn't have to use perks or items for information SWF players get for free and if you think this is good game design you're part of the problem.

"Just do bones" is so flawed it makes skyscrapers jealous.

Anyone should use perks to make up for parts of their gameplay that are lacking because that's the point of perks. SWF isn't the standard and shouldn't be looked at as such, telling people not to run perks that will help them prevent a certain situation is bad thinking. Great to know that im part of the problem tho....

Survivors are massively disadvantaged outside of meta-tryhard swiffers, and you want to turn matches into 3v1s where one person is not contributing a lick to gens?

That's assuming you can actually find all five, since some maps are horrible for totem hunting, and there are some spawns that are very difficult to find, even with Small Game. And that's another issue with NOED: If you cleanse 4 out of 5, you royally screw yourself over, because NOED is going to the one totem you -can't- find. So unless it is absolutely perfectly executed (Good luck coordinating that one, even in a swiffer), it is actually hugely detrimental to 'do bones'. Because if you don't do bones, NOED might pop into a totem you've already spotted.

Also, it's not 'maps showing you where they are', plural. It's ONLY the rainbow map. The regular map is an even worse version of Visionary, one of the worst perks in the game.

I don't think the issue is that it's OP; you are correct, it is not. Powerful, but not insane. The problem is, it is unhealthy, bad killers rely on it and never improve because of it. As you say, you rarely see it at higher ranks because most killers there don't need it, but when you come across a Killer at red rank that DOES have it, it becomes quickly clear by their play style that it has carried them there. They don't know how to pressure gens, they under perform in chases and will chase a single survivor indefinitely knowing they don't need to worry because NOED will help them catch up when they inevitably fail to prevent the gens being repaired.

I have never, ever played against a skilled high rank player who ended up having NOED, outside of meme builds. I do, however, hear the words "S/he isn't very good, they probably have NOED". So I can understand peoples frustration when they have out performed for 90% of the game and then suddenly the killer is getting gifted kills based on a single perk that requires nothing other than a lack of coordination/hastiness on survivor side.

The counter arguments are pretty flawed too. Maps are pretty rare on the bloodweb, and the green one doesn't even track totems by default. Small game and detectives hunch are decent, but Small game doesn't help you keep track of how many totems have been destroyed, and both are dependent on you not being hooked/chased.

Even with them, you can miss totems if they are at the other side of map etc and you have a team with no comms, it is a nightmare.

Yeah some are blindingly obvious: these are the ones my regular hex perks will nearly always spawn on because RNG hates me.

With Noed you have to get all of them though, including the ones that are absurd; had one on sanctum of wrath once that was behind a load of reeds in the corner of a low wall. When I say behind them, I mean COMPLETELY covered by them; even with detectives it took me awhile to find (as aura had faded by time I got there).

You get one totem like that remaining, and its the other side of the map to you when last gen pops with detectives, you're going to think all totems done, and then NOED strikes and nobody is finding it, before somebody is sacrificed.

Learning every single possible totem spawn on every variation of every map, no doubt some players will have done so. But its a big ask of every single survivor in order to counter a single perk that requires literally nothing on the killers part to activate other than for them to be losing.

Correct, and at that point Detective's would be useful there but you're missing my point entirely.

So allow me to, once again, re-iterate it, this time slightly larger.

SOLO SURVIVORS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO USE PERKS OR ITEMS TO GET INFORMATION THAT SWF GET FOR FREE

In the scenario you proposed there still would have been missing information because you don't know if someone has, or hasn't, cleansed a single totem. The fact of the matter is that solo survivor desperately needs buffs to bring it in line with SWF, or much closer to it, and then killers and totems can be buffed accordingly. NOED itself isn't unhealthy, but the disparity between information is and NOED best exacerbates this problem. "Just do bones" doesn't work because of this problem.

Solos need information buffs because right now they're easily the weakest role in DBD.

And once more, for the people in the back:

SOLO SURVIVORS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO USE PERKS OR ITEMS TO GET INFORMATION THAT SWF GET FOR FREE