Is it tunneling when you don't have ds?
Yeah of course it's tunneling but...is it a point to complain? When you don't have ds but then you decide to confront the killer about tunneling isn't the own vault? When you hate tunneling then you should run ds for that case. Of course it's something else when you don't even have ds in the first chase.
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DS is a perk from a licensed survivor so you have to pay extra for it or get it while it was in the shrine.
So no you can’t just say use DS
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I would agree. I hate tunneling, and now refuse to do it as a killer, even if it is the smartest move. My own personal choice.
But, as such I run DS as a survivor.
Either way, ggs from me. But, I come prepared to at least buy myself another few seconds.
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Whether it is or isn't considered tunneling is irrelevant because the killer isn't breaking any rules for doing it.
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Your views confuse me looking at all your threads. Lol.
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The problem is survivors think that everything is tunneling these days. While i agree that you should have ds to combat the killer focusing you off hook, you should also rely on teammates to help you out in those situations first and foremost. There are many perks that help you to not be focused down and ds isn't the only one that does it. If people started running Borrowed time more instead of taking a lot of selfish perks that don't help the team and only themselves it wouldn't be such a problem.
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Some Players, like Clevite earlier in this thread, actively apply additional rules to themselves in regards to this. Most do not, and it isn't (in my opinion) appropriate to try and grief or shame them for playing the game within the rules. Our extra, unofficial, rules are personal and apply only to ourselves.
Most Killers aren't tunneling you. Tunneling takes presence of mind and intent. I submit that most Killers simply take the first target that presents itself, the next best thing. If I return to the hook from whatever I was doing and I see two Survivors I make an instant judgement. These are the things which weigh in on it the most:
- Who is closer to me.
- Who is running directly away in a straight line and who is going at an angle I can cut.
- Are they both injured, i.e. who is Insta-Down?
- Does either of them have a key?
At no point does the question of whether or not one of them was just on the hook even enter my mind. I consider that entirely irrelevant. I don't use that information as a pro or a con. Obviously, I know who I have hooked, the only exception being those crazy squads that all come in looking identical to one another. I just don't consider that information as important as the four things I list above. My PRIMARY concern is who can I catch up to, hit, and down in the most reliable way. That's it. That is all there is to it.
Believe it or not, it is Survivors who decide/cause Tunneling in most situations. They do this by:
- Making unsafe rescues. I could do an essay on HOW to do safe rescues.
- Outright farming.
- Unhooking by purposely putting the hooked between them and an approaching Killer.
- Choosing to not use Borrowed Time (it is an option you know).
- Vanishing like a Ninja right after the unhook and leaving the unhooked holding the bag.
- Insisting on healing the unhooked right at the hook to get those altruism points in immediately.
- Would-be rescuers seem unwilling these days to even take a protection hit.
- Would-be rescuers seem unwilling to be sure THEY are the closest and likely to take the chase.
- Would-be rescuers are absolutely unwilling to take their turn on the hook, i.e. trade when tactical.
- Overall putting the team effort first has lagged. It doesn't take SWF for coordination, as it used to happen in Solo.
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Let's see... would you rather run around the map looking for 1 Survivor and potentially lose 2 more gens in that time or go back to the hook where you can find at least 2 and get more pressure that way... I understand that tunneling isn't fun but seeing gens popping here and there isn't fun either. If you put the tunneled Survivor back on the hook and chase the other one, the third has to get the unhook, often resulting in a good slow down. Instead of complaining I would rather look at the other side. DS exists for a reason. It gives Survivors that little extra time to finish the gens while the one getting tunneled gets a few more seconds out of another chase. Let's say a Survivor with DS gets tunneled. They run the Killer for ~20 seconds and use DS for another ~20 second chase. Then they hang on a hook for up to 60 more seconds. A gen is done in 80 seconds if I'm correct, so that's still 2 potential gens in that time, if the Killer chases another person. If you don't like to get tunneled and don't have/bring DS or if your teammate doesn't bring BT or doesn't pull aggro, it's still no real reason to complain if you ask me.
I for my part don't try to tunnel unless someone begs for it or they get unhooked in front of my face (but in that case I usually still just slug, giving them another chance).
As Survivor I like to bring WGLF and pull aggro/take a hit for 2 easy stacks and try to distract the Killer for as long as possible.
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There are many reasons not to run DS. Laggy internet connection or otherwise can't hit the skillcheck, you don't have Laurie or haven't leveled her up yet.
Yes, it's tunneling. Tunnel if you want but don't say it's not tunneling.
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Tunneling is tunneling, with or without the perk.
Running DS shouldn’t be viewed as a requirement, unless literally all Killers tunnel. Which is simply unrealistic.
This reminds me of a person who farmed me off the hook, in front of the Killer (Without Borrowed Time), until I died.
Then said it was my fault for not running DS.
Again, it shouldn’t be a requirement. No perk should.
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There are many reasons why "tunnelling" may not be tunnelling.
It's entirely possible to re-encounter the same survivor, even though you've gone out of your way to find a different one, purely due to the mistakes of that survivor. What are you supposed to do? Keep ignoring them?
I mean, I typically do in those scenarios, but the killer shouldn't be expected to give that kind of leeway.
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Why is tunneling such a bad thing? It's a tactic that's not punishable by the devs or game, Killers only get punished for it when there's a reason not to tunnel (DS, map pressure in another area, etc.). If you don't want to tunnel that's your own rule, but if the Survivors make the mistake of letting it happen then that's on them.
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After reading Moundshrouds post, I do want to make a point about when I refer to "tunneling "
My meaning is the purposeful attempt to chase and remove a player from the game or at least to the next hook stage.
Not running into a recently unhooked survivor when I am checking gens, nor said survivor running into me in panic out of some jungle gym, etc.
I mean a purposeful attempt.
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Sometimes that's the case. Most? I disagree. I've depipped all morning because of things like:
- Invisible Wraith right next to the hook
- Insidious Bubba
- Billy in the woods, chainsaw revved, ready to dash as soon as someone goes for the unhook. In each case, I'm the one going down immediately off hook. I can't control other people not having BT, but I'm being penalized. In some cases, where there is no terror radius, BT does you no good anyways, as it needs a terror radius to proc. At any rate, that isn't a fun experience for me. Should everyone be expected to swf?
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Yes but, in those scenarios, you are the survivor. You have the control of making safe rescue attempts, and so you do. So obviously in your pool of survivors (myself) and killers (other people) it's going to be the killers who are the majority offending faction.
And I do have to agree with your observations to some degree, and add in the range-camping Nurse, who stands on a hill with a ready charged blink, surveying the entire map and periodically checking the hook.
But, you can't claim its a majority, given the clear case of confirmation bias going on.
For a killer who never intentionally tunnels, it's always going to be the survivors. See how that works?
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With all due respect, you are a Potato. There is no shame in that, but you are relatively new. That means you face mostly new Killers. New Killers camp, and as result of camping, tunnel more. They haven't learned how inefficient it is toward over all Pips, BP, and Emblem advancement. I'm not saying you are exaggerating; you clearly are having exactly those experiences. Those just aren't common across the board. There are also ways your teammates can mitigate the issue and make sure the Killer profits less by it. That is the quickest way to improve.
Moreover, safe rescues are STILL possible even with camping Killers. As I pointed out above, there is Borrowed Time. There is also coordinated rescue where one goes in and gets the chase so the other can pull at the hook. There is trading hooks, i.e. getting that person down and taking the protection hit, and possibly the down yourself for the overall good of the team. All of these things (and more actually) are within YOUR power and that of your teammates as Survivors. I'm going to tell you something, that I sadly don't think you will accept.
You need to stop worrying about what OTHER people are doing and focus on what YOU are doing. You have no power over how others choose to play. You have no say over the game either. I'm going to be blunt here; they aren't going to fix camping or tunneling for you. That is a non-starter. You can decry it and lament it to your hearts content, but those are part of the game. You either learn to deal with them or you don't. The longer you blame YOUR problems on other people (or the game) the longer it is going to take you to get good at this game. That is my dose of tough love for the day. Nobody every accepts this when I first tell them. Privately, down the road (usually a month or two) I get a private message from some telling me they WISH they had listened sooner.
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get BT then which is free
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That's true. If the same survivor is unfortunate enough to run into killer again and again, it's not tunneling to hook them. But It sounds like OP meant tunneling on purpose.
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Tunneling by any other name is just a hole.
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Relatively new? That's a really patronizing thing to say. The idea that because you, as a survivor, can control how you play, therefore if someone else screws you over, it's actually your fault is also not correct. I'm talking about solo queue where you can absolutely get matched up with people that don't know what they're doing and completely sandbag you.
Sure, camping and tunneling aren't against the rules, but they're not fun to play against. It's like MTG against a deck that just counters everything you do. It's a legit strategy but nobody enjoys playing with you when you do that. Going into a match to play in such a way that you know nobody else is going to enjoy is kind of a ######### thing to do. If it's MTG, I can decide to not play against someone who I know uses decks like that is a choice I can make. I have no control over who I get matched against.
To demonstrate, I kind of want to get a swf together, and everyone hides in lockers with head on. Just waiting. Move before you get birds. Kick the killer in the face if they get close. Do you think you'd have fun in a match where you're just getting head oned the entire time? No, you won't. But if you complain about people being toxic, well you just gotta get good, right? The killer isn't going to have fun. And survivors who go into the match with the specific intent of screwing their killer over, then they're kind of being jerks. That kind of attitude is problematic in both roles.
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its still a dick move. the other person behind the screen has emotions too.
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I can, because as a killer at high level/MMR, you must be running 3 of the following 6 perks/perk combos or you will lose:
- Ruin + Undying (Hag + Blight DLC)
- BBQ or Thrilling (Bubba or Ghostface DLS)
- Pop goes the weasel (Clown DLC)
- Corrupt Intervention - only if you aren't running ruin (Plague DLC)
- Sloppy Butcher (basekit)
- Surge (Demo DLC)
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Patronizing or not, it is accurate. I didn't expect you to listen to the advice, nobody ever does at first. I'm just telling you what you need to know to get ahead. You are in your own way until you change your mindset. You are not going to get better as long as you believe that it is other people (or the game) that are screwing you over or causing your issues. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong about it, because there is NOTHING you can do about the nature of the game or how other people play. The only thing you have power over is yourself.
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I'll remember that the next time I let them go, they teabag at the exit gate and say "GG EZ, Noob Killer"
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That's like saying 'you can't complain about pre-nerf DS if you aren't playing Pyramid Head'.
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As a rank 1 survivor, yes you're still tunneling. Have some moral code and quit griefing your games. even high rank killers have a moral code and you need to be aware that even your mom wouldn't tunnel so think of that smh
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Wow you again, please actually understand how this game and perks work before you start commenting.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
i'd say if you intentionally go out of your way to tunnel you are a bit of a dick regardless of perks. Not saying its against the law or anything but its like camping in cod, completely legit strat but your still a dick for doing it
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Not initial DS, but the DS before All-Kill.
It requires being hooked, and PH countered that, because caging didn't count as hooking, so it never enabled DS.
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What? You’re trying to be rude to him when in the end you basically agreed with what he said and somehow argued with yourself.
You clearly just said that he can’t control what somebody else does so there’s no point trying. But you also said to him to that there’s plenty that can be done by his team mates to save from camping. Do you see the contradiction here or would you like me to lay it out in layman’s terms for you?
And you honestly think there isn’t much tunnelling and camping in high ranks? You must be deluded or never play high rank survivor. Did you watch any of the Botb tourney, they’re meant to be the best players in the world and they were constantly camping and tunnelling.
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Pretty sure that about 80% of the value of Torment is that you don't have to deal with hook perks like BT and DS.
I mean, if the primary goal was to save on hook-carry time, why does Cage not simply count as a hook? It is specifically pointed out that it counters hook-based perks.
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No, I'm not being rude to him. I'm pointing out the "mindset" where he still feels he is being screwed over by other people. That is not the way to approach the game.
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DS doesn't do a whole lot to discourage most killers from tunnelling. What are you going to do after stabbing Spirit, Blight, Nurse, Huntress, Bubba, Hag, Freddy, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Doctor, Billy, Charlotte, or even Plague?
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He countered and still counters ds. What are you talking about? His cage disabled borrowed time, decisive and more perks.
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No, it isn't. The argument is about having a counter, and not using it. 'DS is a counter to tunnelling, so if you don't run it, you can't complain about tunnelling' = 'PH is a counter to DS, so if you don't run him, you can't complain about DS'
The fact that PH has other benefits on top of countering these perks just strengthens the argument.
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thats like me complaining about getting trapped and the killer would say "just run better lol" or the equivalent of you getting hit then the killer saying "just run dead hard" both of them are honestly a run around
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And you’re right. I can’t.
It’s the same as a Killer without gen-regression perks: I didn’t bring anything to defend myself with. However, I also don’t think I need DS because not every Killer tunnels. In fact, most I go against don’t.
That, and a Killer who truly tunnels will do so with or without DS.
The perk is not required.
While I do get annoyed if I am being tunneled, what I hate is when a teammate of mine induces it. (In a situation I have no control over), then says it’s my fault for not bringing DS, when they didn’t even have BT.
Bringing DS only to protect myself against griefing teammates is wrong.
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How is he not a viable counter to DS when his power literally voids it? First your argument is that 'he's not designed to counter it' (Which is wrong, considering there was no reason for the cage not to count the same way as a hook, from a game design perspective), now your argument is that he's not a viable counter to it? I mean, DS also sucks against proper tunnelling, because a single stun-and-drop isn't enough to get the killer off your case if he's truly tunnelling you, so does that mean DS is also an 'unviable counter'?
'PH is the counter to gens going too fast', what? He has no map control. Sure, he can break a loop, but he can't make it to the other side of the map as fast as Nurse, Spirit, Freddy, Demogorgon or Blight.
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Okay, how do you think this went during his design/development phase?
"Yeah, we could just copy paste the hook mechanisms onto the cage, but we've decided to create an entirely new gameplay function instead for literally no reason."
The cage not functioning like a hook is by design, not by accident. PH WAS designed to counter hook perks, including DS.
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Ds doesn't stop tunneling. If they really wanted to stop tunneling they would make ds last forever until you do a gen, bones, heal yourself or someone else, jump into a locker, open chests. Just make it last until you can actually do something. Say at that point you get picked up after you get downed straight after a hook then you ds, but then you still have unlimited ds until you can commit to an objective. I have litterally caught a survivor on the last few seconds of ds and forgotten about it, I get Ds'd and then litterally rage and tunnel him down. It doesn't work
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This tired old line
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The problem is :
Against good survivor or swf you need tunneling (sacrifice one as soon as possible ) and camp when you is rushed(because you don't have gen to defend (1-2 gen with 4 people is gg for surv and you need one kill fore balance the game) but is not fun camp and tunneling,in some games forces you to kill if you want to win.
For surv that is being tunneled Is not fun and depip for altruism and gen
I prefer the respawn system of home Sweet home
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If you Chase the same survivor all the time, It is tunneling, with or without DS.
But we must use this mechanic due to gen speed.
If survivors tunnel gens, I tunnel them.
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Not nearly as tiring as people complaining the killer tunneled them.
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