Survivor / Killer General Changes idea
1. as long as the hooked survivor is within ______ distance & the killer is NOT involved in a chase. There is no hook stage progress. Remaining within this distance while NOT involved in a chase for 20 seconds will break the hook and apply unhooking buffs. (Need legitimate distance ideas)
2. When unhooked the survivor receives Endurance & Doesn't leave scratches, blood pools, aura or grunts of pain for 10 seconds. (This effectively eliminates any need for BT or Off The Record, so new perk ideas would be needed for Bill & Zarina)
3. Survivors can heal fully from dying state. 50% healing speed applies until they reach 95% health. This takes about 31 seconds They then have a choice to either crawl for help or start "On Your Feet" animation. "On Your Feet" takes 10 seconds to complete and cannot be canceled. It can be interrupted by the killer the same as if the killer caught them during any other action.
4. Survivors picked up with "On Your Feet" will have Deep Wounds effect. They can either be healed by another survivor or they can Mend Self at 50% mending speed
5. if survivors involved in a chase stay with ____ meters of hooked survivor, they will be slowed and have exposed status until they leave the area.
6. If a survivor stays unmoving beside a pallet for 10 seconds, they will be slowed for 4 seconds AFTER dropping the pallet.
7. Killers build up immunity to blinding lights. Each successful blind increases immunity by 10% until the killer is fully immune
8. During endgame collapse, if healthy or injured survivors remain within 10m of the gate area or inside it & are NOT performing an action such as healing others. The Collapse Timer will expire 5% faster per survivor inside the gate area. Max 20%. If they remain withing the area for _______ seconds, they will become injured and that gate will be blocked. The other gate remains unaffected as long as it's clear.
2nd update, Thanks to @Firellius and @ilovedbd123 @Ilovedbd for the help and ideas so far.
Comments
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None of these are very good ideas.
I see what you were going for, and I appreciate the effort, but no.
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Care to elaborate? I mean I can see where they would require some reworking of certain perks but other than that, why do you think they're bad?
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The survivor-sided changes are a lot stronger than the killers so I don't agree. A lot of the killer-sided changes are situational, reward the killer for making mistakes (getting blinded repeatedly), punish bad survivors, or punish toxic survivors. Not to mention all killer-sided are counter-able, you can still loop and pallet and camping it is just worst, you're bad for looping a killer around a hooked survivor and half the time they'll be injured already, any survivor that isn't brand new simply won't miss skill checks not to mention they'll also likely be using the endurance to avoid healing so the exposed is useless, survivors can simply wait outside the doors and just be extra wary if it's a stealth killer.
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No.
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For your Survivor ideas:
- There is no reason to punish camping more. It's a legitimate strategy and there are reasons for the Killer to stay near a hooked Survivor.
- There is no reason to punish camping more. It's a legitimate strategy and there are reasons for the Killer to stay near a hooked Survivor.
- This one makes no sense. You are giving the Survivor the ability to have an extra health state for as long as they see fit. That's all the issue of old Mettle of Man without ANY of the downsides.
- This completely negates the point of multiple perks and if you got 4 man slugged, you kind of deserve to lose (unless its a Nurse).
- This is extremely powerful and there is no reason to implement it. Slugging is a strategy and is often required at Red Ranks. I cannot stress how insanely powerful that is.
For your Killer ideas:
- The exposed effect does nothing to a Survivor with Endurance, and it means nothing if you are already injured.
- 10 seconds is much too short of a time. If they drop a pallet and run, they are EASILY being chased for 20 more seconds. Besides, there are legitimate reasons for Survivors to be chased near hooks.
- There is no reason for this. This removes a ton of mindgame potential and totally screws over people playing against mindgamy Killers (spirit).
- Again, no reason for this. Flashlights aren't an issue for decent players. Annoying? Yes. An actual benefit to the Survivors? No.
- This solves nothing, as Survivors will simply wait near the Exit Gates. I see what you were trying to accomplish, but that idea doesn't do anything and opens the way for massive trolling.
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@LazyPayday the getting repeatedly blinded wasn't about the killer making mistakes ( although I see your point there) it was intended to avoid flashlight spamming. I myself have played many matches where I was basically walking around looking straight up or straight down because all 4 survivors had godlike flashlights. In my opinion flashlight should be saved for rescue an ally or a quick get away instead of harassing the killer because you have a good flashlight + add-ons.
As far as looping around a hooked survivor, it happens all the time. Its sad but true, I see it in most matches I play.
As for the endurance buff, it gets lost if any action is performed by that survivor, so by waiting it out they're literally only hurting their team. The point is to get healed by someone else and continue helping.
Overall the idea is to prevent Tunneling, Camping, Slugging from killers and Flashlight spam, pallet camping, and waiting by the exit to try and insult / harass the killer.
Thanks for your thoughts, see what I can possibly come up with to balance it better. Any ideas as to that goal are appreciated as well.
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@Pulsar I appreciate the input but I'm going to have to disagree on several points.
1. camping is barely punished and even that only matters to killers who care about always getting max emblem score..
2. the only legitimate reason for a killer to be close to a hooked survivor is if they are already chasing another survivor and if they are in a chase then they dont get punished so that part is already a moot point.
3. this one was actually supposed to have a 60 second timer for endurance as well so im going to have to edit that in. (My mistake)
4. I know this would require some perk rework that's kind of the point of this, but saying someone deserves to lose just because they went against a skilled troll or toxic killer, just no. The other point is to get more players who stay instead of quit because someone was toxic.
5. The only time I view slugging as legitimate is when survivors are trying to body block killers from the hook. Too many killers run around slugging just to slug. Unbreakable only works once. Not to mention newer players who haven't unlocked all perks yet cant make an anti-slug build or any other really. Too many players have started disregarding rank now as well, so we see killers that should be red rank down in yellow. So do less skilled players deserve to lose because a highly skilled player doesn't want to play in their own skill level? No.
1. The survivor wouldn't have endurance if they missed a skill check seeing as they performed an action, but they very well could be at full hp if someone else healed them
2. This one is entirely situational, if the killer isn't camping or the survivor wasn't chased immediately after killer hooks someone then it literally won't matter. Also it depends on how close the killer is to the survivor they're chasing and if the survivor stays by hook at which point all they're doing is making it harder for someone else to rescue.
3. This one does nothing to mind games. I've yet to see a survivor just crouch or stand beside a pallet for any extended period of time unless they were camping it to get an easy stun. There's always some back and forth.
4. Flashlight aren't a major issue but they can be a problem, ive seen survivors with good Flashlight follow a killer and blind them at every turn. Breaking a pallet while NOT in chase, blind. Damaging a generator nobody was working on, blind. Walking around a corner not knowing they're there, blind. A good flashlight with good add on blinds really fast.
5. The trolling is already there, this simply makes it to where the killer could have a little more time for payback or a last minute hit the survivors trap themselves if they're inside the gate. Notice it doesn't punish those being healed or healing others. Only those who try to hide inside the gate while not helping so they can jump out if the killer gets close. If they aren't going to help, they should leave
Don't get me wrong, I see your points. They just happen to be points that I disagree with. I play both sides and have seen these things constantly debated. The reason that I came up with these ideas is because these are things that can ruin the game for others. Nobody should have to sacrifice their fun on a game they paid for just because someone else wants to label something a "strategy" or "tactic". Taking the fun out of a game is toxic in my opinion. Especially when it's repeatedly happening. And if it's going to be allowed in the name of strategy then they need to remove the punishment for players who DC and the bonus points for those who remain.
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- You lose BP and Rank for camping. Not sure what else you want.
- EGC. What is the Killer supposed to do? Leave them and purposefully throw the match? What if the Killer has BBQ and nobody shows up? Is he supposed to leave, knowing full well that the entire Survivor team is likely close by? Of course not, because camping has it's place in the game.
- 60 seconds of an extra health state for no downside is much too strong.
- Slugging isn't trolling, nor is it toxic. It's a tactic and if you can't counter it, then that's on you. The only exception is Nurse, since a slugging Nurse is not a fun experience.
- Do less skilled players deserve to lose when they play against a player of higher skill? Yes, they do.
Second part.
- If they are at full HP, then they wouldn't have Endurance. Endurance allows you to tank ANY hit, instant down or not.
- Like you said, this one won't matter at all. No reason to add it.
- Spirit can do her stupid stand still mindgame, Survivor sits near a pallet, pallet gets blocked, Spirit gets an easier hit. That's how it's a problem. And for literally every other situation, it doesn't matter.
- If you get blinded coming around a corner, I have no idea what to tell you. All you have to do is look down or up and you get an easy hit. If they are wasting time blinding you, they aren't doing gens.
- Again, this doesn't do much of anything. If the Survivors want to troll, they are just going to t-bag outside the gate and quickly run back through and leave.
Considering everything you've revealed to me, I think you play in Green Ranks. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I would advise you to put a bit more time into the game, so that you can see what I and many others see. Your ideas do not work, but you have the right direction. Many people will just complain, but you are trying to find ways to fix the issue, which is to be encouraged and commended.
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My survivor is at green rank yes, my killer I got to red rank 1 time, then I played some Survivor and started being a "nice" killer because of what I saw being the survivor. And have only recently started playing more seriously and still dont need to camp, tunnel or slug to get 2k-4k. When killers run around doing nothing but slugging, it isn't a fun experience period. sorry that's not a tactic, it IS toxic and that's one you can't convince me otherwise on. As far as the part you say has no reason to add, it's literally for the situation listed which I see almost every single match. As far as the Spirit mindgame with the pallet it's simple. They stop moving, start walking away. They move, run or continue loop. No reason to stand next to the pallet. Especially when you can hear the sound of the spirit phasing. As far as the endurance buff goes, I know what it does but I think you're missing how the idea I had works. They only have it as long as they themselves do NOTHING, another survivor can heal them without taking away the buff. But if they ride the buff until the end, then they aren't helping the team thus it can actually be strong for both sides. Especially if the killer gets more than 1 hooked at a time. If they both ride it out that means only half the team is doing what needs done. A full minute is a long time to be wasting as a survivor. But if they carry on like they should then the only thing it did was prevent tunneling. As far as camping goes, BBQ shows close survivors too. I hooked one in killer shack basement and saw someone was right outside the window up stairs, thats not a wide range, so if they dont show up cause they're closer than that it's literally patrol time cause they're right on top of you which means you would start a chase and the killer wouldn't receive any negative effects but the survivor could if they remain close. Cannot accuse a killer of camping when they're right on top of other survivors, that's a survivor mistake. The suggestion I made only requires starting a chase that's not hard if you know they're there, literally a quick circle around and someone is going to panic & run. Also since the suggestion requires a certain distance that im still currently figuring out, proxy camping is still in, its literally the face camping that's out. In all seriousness, what is fun about standing there doing literally nothing waiting for someone to show up? When a killer is doing that, that killer isn't pressuring the survivors, thus giving them free progress on gens. When I'm on survivor, I try to get anyone I can in voice chat. Why? Because if I get face camped I tell them to leave me. Sure I die but I make sure it takes as long as possible. Last time 4 gens got completed and a door was being opened as I died. Sure the killer didn't get much points, at the same time my match was completely ruined and I got hardly any points cause I got caught early. The only reason 1 gen was done before I got hooked was because the other 3 worked the 1st one together. The point is that camping only really works if all the survivors are solo or over altruistic. If they play smart, 1 dies and the rest get away or they all live. Lastly by camping, tunneling, slugging and calling them legitimate tactics, you're basically asking all survivors to run BT, DS, Unbreakable and possibly Soul Guard so they can counter. Impossibility for newer players and even experienced players still would need all the proper unlocks done.. how is that fun for them? They can't know if others are running it if they're running randoms and they shouldn't be confined to just running SWF. Bottom line is the only real counter to these things is expert looping so as to not get caught, because even the perks can't save you the entire game. BT is situational and if you get downed before fully unhooking them, it's wasted. Unbreakable works 1 time per match, DS works 1 time per match. Getting pummeled into the ground doesn't help you get better either.
As far as the game goes, sure I'm relatively new in comparison to a majority of players. But I've experienced gameplay at every rank as killer and up to green rank as survivor. At higher ranks the games get less and less fun.
On killer side I see Survivors troll and try to bully, then complain when the killer acts just as toxic in return.
On survivor side I did a test, I played only survivor for 3 days. Had 90 consecutive matches where everyone spent at least 50% of the match on the ground. Nurses, Spirits, Oni, Blights and Iri Head Huntresses were who the killers were playing. Then I had 3 matches of game play where that wasn't the case. 2 of which were still losses but they were so much fun even with the loss. Today I had a mix before I swapped to killer. This is why I want to fix the problem I see. The biggest obstacles though will be finding the proper balance and getting people to understand what they call tactics are actually a problem. See dealing with the things you're calling legitimate tactics on killer side specifically, I almost decided to simply uninstall and quit altogether. It's stressful instead of relaxing, aggravating instead of fun, and it makes the game rather predictable and boring cause you already know they're going to do at least 1 or 2 things. Tunnel and Slug is almost guaranteed. Add the hitbox problems and pallet issues and this is even worse. Combined it makes it almost unplayable. That's why there has to be a way to make something like my idea work. While I value the constructive criticism of the idea, whats really needed are improvements, thus I came to the forums
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You seem very set on your ideas, but are unwilling to accept that they may not be the right ideas.
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- I think this idea is a good one, but should be set to a fixed distance, rather than terror radius. Otherwise, this effect gets janky with killers like Myers, Ghostface and Pig who can suppress their terror radius. Additionally, this would add a nasty drawback to perks like Monitor & Abuse, which doesn't need it.
- I think this is too harsh. I think point number one is enough to punish camping.
- I think this is too harsh as well, and too much of an encouragement to bad unhooks. As an anti-tunnelling option, I'd much rather go for a basekit, beefier, shorter-lived version of Off The Record. When you get off the hook, for five seconds, you don't make grunts of pain, you don't leave a blood trail, and you don't leave scratch marks.
- I agree with this, but under VERY stringent conditions. I think survivors should be able to pick themselves up from the dying state ONLY at a generator, and it should require progressing the bar to full and THEN doing a 10-15 second 'on your feet' animation. That way, it can only come into play if the killer truly and thoroughly messed up, or the survivor managed to outplay them while moving at 20% speed.
- Too harsh. Don't see the point.
Killer side:
- If the survivor has gotten away from the killer and is able to work on something long enough to proc a skill check, normal rules should apply, because it's returned to normal gameplay.
- I think that's too abusable.
- Hard no. If they're stealthing around, they shouldn't be punished by the entity just pointing out where they are AND taking away their defenses.
- That I can get into. Making every subsequent blind take 5% longer would be a decent way to punish overly greedy flashers.
- No, but the end-game collapse should expire faster when all remaining survivors are in an exit zone.
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Thanks for your input on these. Honestly I like your endgame collapse better than mine.
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I can accept constructive criticism, but mocking and insulting I don't. So feel free to take it elsewhere.
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100% Perfection!
My favorite easily being the immunity increase to lights as it's a good change that could help newer players, adds a new mechanic that survivors would have to work around so that free saves couldn't happen all game, and it wouldn't nullify the use of Lightborn. As you'd still be able to use the aura aspect of it and get immunity from the start.
The anti tunnel/camp as well as the measures so survivors can't keep a killer around a hooked person too long are great too! No one likes being ejected from the game and this would really help fix that.
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Thanks for the enthusiasm, and I'm glad you like the idea but I know it's not 100% perfection lol. Thank you though.
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Part of what I hate seeing in game is when a killer hooks a survivor and sees another just standing there so they chase and that survivor loops them close by then the killer gets accused of camping. Can't blame a killer for survivors who won't leave the area.
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So you mocked me based on something I didn't even say? I never said they were balanced, I asked if people thought it was balanced or more to one sided. I've also stated that I posted it here for improvements, thanked others for their input since they were actually civil unlike yourself. As far as changing my mind on things. Calling camping, tunneling, slugging strategies is one thing I will not change my mind on, I believe they ruin the game for others. The only thing I said about patrolling,, aka proxy camping, is that it would still be allowed with these changes,, face camping wouldn't. Other than that all I've done is give my reasons for this idea. While we're on the subject, mocking and ridiculing people because you don't like their idea isn't healthy and isn't how forums should be so you even saying that about me is hypocritical at best. As far as wanting an echo chamber, I disagreed with the person who commented that the idea was 100% perfection. Why because I know it's not, it's here for improvements. As for your "point" if you are going to mock me instead of hold a civil conversation, then I don't care what your point is. Now if you want to bring it forth in a civil manner and act like a mature person. Then I might listen but my 1st impression of you makes it doubtful
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Just wanted to touch base a little more since you also have proposed changes.
1. I hadn't considered that, you're 100% correct. Thanks for pointing that out.
2. Fair enough.
3. What would you think of a mix of Borrowed Time & Off The Record? Say 10 seconds duration?
4. What would you think about removing the generator aspect but increasing the " on your feet animation" time? Because killers have to patrol the generators so crawling to one would kind of defeat the purpose I feel.
5. Honestly been kind of considering getting rid of this one cause it really seems too much.
1. Again, Fair Enough
2. Can you give an example on why this is abusable?
3. I understand stealthing around. What this was meant for was purposely camping pallets when not in a chase. But the point of it alerting the killer to the location wasn't originally thought of and pointed out so im looking into changes. Any ideas or simply dislike this altogether?
4. I hadn't figured a % yet on this but 5% does sound fair so thank you for that.
5. As I said before I like your speed up on the collapse timer better than my idea. Do you have an idea of what % speed up and is it per survivor or not?
Thanks again for suggestions and help trying to improve the idea.
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Camping, tunneling, and slugging are 100% an opinion based thing. How I know this is the simple fact that I've seen killers in all ranks play against survivors that would absolutely destroy me and not need to use any of these so called strategies yet they still got a 4k. They are also HIGHLY abused. Also the "Devs said its okay" excuse is played out. Like I said, if these are to be considered legitimate strategies then survivors who d/c because of them shouldn't be punished for leaving. So on this we will just have to agree to disagree.
As far as the rest, the changes you propose are exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. Another person also made suggestions that I feel are good, so I will type out the 2nd draft for you to go over if you want. Then we can go over that one since the 1st is now completely obsolete.
Actually I'll just edit the original so people won't have to scroll to find it
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Honestly I find gen rushing to be dumb. It gets a survivor the bare minimum points possible. It also ruins the game for killers, just like flashlight spamming and camping for a pallet stun when they don't even know you're there.
But the new version is up now so let's go over that
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Here's some things that are problems that I'm running into, I need 1 & 4 to balance out. I also need the distance from hooked survivor to be workable on any map, but at the same time it can't be too small or it's pointless but it can't be too big or small maps can be broken.
3. I was thinking of adding Deep Wounds with a 50% mend self speed after the animation making so that they would need to mend or find help or else they'd be downed again.
4. I was thinking of Slowing the survivor & making them exposed until they leave the set area that way it's more pressure and is either unhook or leave.
5. I like your idea for this, so I'll edit it in later
6. 10% could also allow killer mindgame options, pretend to be nice, get immunity or at least resistance to being blinded and attack
7. I was honestly thinking of making this the gate area and within 10m of the gate and adding injured status after _____ seconds with exit getting blocked.
That has the potential for a good amount of pressure seeing as that exit is blocked, 1 hit down and time expired quicker so even less time to get to the other gate if it's even opened. On top of that, if a survivor has triggered this while a save is being attempted, it puts more pressure on them due to less time and a blocked exit, making them more likely to make a mistake.
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