SBMM will SAVE DBD (Real Discussion)
The devs are planning to implement a system that will match players based on skill, not rank. There's been debates as to why it's good or bad, but I'll explain, in detail, why I think it will not only be GOOD for the health of the game, but also why it will prove many things. I'll try to be brief.
1. Power Role
It's been a heated debate every time viability is discussed at the highest ranks among killers. There's a severe power gap between Trapper, and Nurse obviously right? I'm here to argue... Survivors are the true power role. They control the game. They dictate the pace of the game. They have full control over how the game will go. Does that sound like a power role to you? It does to me. This is imbalanced because the Killer should have these powers. I won't get into SWF, because comms shouldn't be in the game, but again... Drop Squad proved they're without a shadow of a doubt the power role. The balance of power should always be in the Killers favor, not to the point of 4K every single match without effort, but to where THEY SHOULDN'T DEPEND ON SURVIVORS MISTAKES. Is it any coincidence the 2 most hated Killers are the 2 killers that dictate the chase? (Nurse & Spirit). This will prove killers just aren't absurd killing machines.
2. Killer nerfs
When addressing the highest level of play, only 2 killers are viable despite the game having over 10+ different killers. Freddy is on the chopping block despite getting blasted in tournaments & by high hour survivors routinely. SBMM will prove he's not as strong as he's been lead to believe. We also know survivors inflate kill rates by hook suicide. That needs to be addressed somehow. Freddy wouldn't be on the chopping block if he were up against survivors of equal skill.
3. Killer Buffs
SBMM will prove just how strong survivors really are and maybe systems will be implemented to buff killers to a level of viability at the top. Nurse (as rare as she is now) & Spirit are the queens of red ranks because of their viability. I'm by no means a pro player, but I enjoy playing Doctor. It's definitely more frustrating to play as Doctor vs Nurse because I feel helpless against a god tier survivor. With SBMM, I'll never probably run into god survivors because my skill isn't that high with Doctor anyways.
In closing, SBMM will, at MINIMUM address key issues like when should a killer be nerfed, buffed, and shifting of power balance as the ranks rise accordingly. This is good for the game in the long run.
Comments
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The problem is that if waiting times get to high for swf i think the devs will relax the mmr and shove lower tier killers against them like they do now.
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Why do the devs have to cater to swf? Like how much of the population is swf? And when I say swf, I'm talking 3-4 man groups because those are more than likely the ones that will be paired with the top tier killers
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The issue I found in SBMM were generator speeds. Unless you're Blight, Nurse, or Spirit, you do not have the potential to traverse a large map and down someone fast at the same time if they are competent. It does not take long for 3 generators to go by if all of the survivors are split up.
I tried playing wholesome builds in SBMM like not using any slowdown perks on Freddy. Games ended in order 8 minutes. I was forced to use ruin undying pop to have a chance against the survivors who were all running meta perk builds
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What is SBMM
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If they don't relax the matchmaking those players leave and suddenly the top tier killers don't get matches. We saw this with the MMR tests, Q times for both sides were absurd, like a top tier Twins main had to manually create a game by contacting good survivors to 'stream snipe' them after they waited an hour for a match.
Having the top end players of your game get punished by not being allowed to play it is a really bad strategy for game longevity.
Furthermore, 4 man SWF is pretty common. Around 1 in 4 matches at red ranks as killer I play are 4 man SWF. Even 2 man SWF is a huge advantage as two players together are able to guarantee a win pretty much every game, and 2 2 man SWFs are about as strong as 1 4 man.
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Agreed, I have mentioned this before.
A proper SBM or MMR will probably be very good for DBD. It will be a rough start since things come slowly, but it would definitely be worth it. I believe that this game can be very balanced, maybe not perfect balance, but very good balance nonetheless. It would encourage BHVR to start redesigning the game somewhat (killer reworks, killer buffs, perk changes, MAP REWORKS, and so on).
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Money.
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SNMM test made for the most miserable time for me. I don't want to have to play slugging Nurse every game to have a chance at 2k. I dont want to face exclusively Nurse and Spirit. I don't want absurdly long q times.
Yes MM needs work but they way BHVR is going wont fix it. I don't play DBD as a competitive game, I play it to have fun. SBMM might mean me leaving the game depending on how it is. During the test I was at what I would consider to be a high MMR based of of my Q times and the people I was going up against. It made for an unpleasant experience on both sides.
I don't want easy games but I don't want games where I have to run the best killers and best perks item addons offerings ect.
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Skill Based MatchMaking
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you don't get 800 kills with that killer because you are godly. you get 800 kills with that killer because there is no MMR and you get... spuds.
Don't get me wrong, he is good and knows his stuff, but as the "tournament" team showed he should not have won that much against anyone that can hold m1.
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This is data the devs need to balance the game. All they have now is muddy data that doesn't tell them anything.
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Skill Based MatchMaking
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Ok so first off you never answered my question about the size of the population of swf. But your reply alludes to the idea that you believe its the majority ( I disagree but whatever). The counter to your argument is by relaxing the matchmaking for those players you now pit the sweaty seal team against casual lvl 12 killer who in turn is going to get gen rushed, baited into locker stun chases, flashlight sniped and teabagged at the exit gates. Don't you think that will ruin the experience for those people and than they will stop playing and ultimately create extremely long queue times because the only peeps having fun are the swf's???...Which, btw, are most likely the minority of the community
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The real solution is a competitive mode. Two queues, two types of gamers. Like every other games do.
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The SBMM won't be there for long. Killers and Survivors will complain because they don't win matches anymore and then BHVR will turn SBMM off. I'm pretty sure this will happen.
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I could get on board with this. You're still going to get those swf's popping the casual games to troll but probably less then what the matchmaking is giving us now
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Exactly. Killers will be very mad since all they get are op swf squads and survivors will be very mad since all they get are nurses and spirits.
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Yeah people that keep defending MMR are really not understanding Behavior whatsoever. Everyone always says "at the highest level they'll finally see that the game is survivor sided and then fix things when they have the data!"
No they won't. That would indicate they have a desire to balance for the top 1%, which they don't, and never have. They will see that "oh yes, at the highest MMR Clown is in fact getting destroyed. Oh well, we knew that already" and they will do nothing.
They have no desire to balance for the top 1% and I don't know why people think they're suddenly going to change their entire philosophy on the game.
Side point: They already know the game is survivor sided at the highest level. They've known this for years. They just don't care because its not indicative of the general experiences that the vast majority will have.
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There are trolls everywhere, and I prefer going against trolls that can make mistakes because they try to flashlight save so badly and they getting hit, rather than a very strong team that I cant beat at all.
Edit : sorry wrong quote at first comment.
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To go further with your proposition, it doesn't mess with nerfing or buffing anything. Which is great because it won't throw off the balance and end up getting everyone angry. Don't get me wrong there are some needed tweaks here and there but buffing solo's and then buffing killers, as some have suggested, would be not be a simple fix and end up screwing everything up
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I think a competitive mode will balance the game. In this competitive mode killers can play S tier characters and every strong builds they want. But in the normal mode, fun builds would be seen more often and survivors wont rush gens.
The thing is my killer mains are the weakest ones, and they do well against random teams but I cant beat swf with 2000+ hours. And I dont want to beat them, I just want them to go in this competitve mode against real killer mains rather than me, a casual killer player (I mostly play survivor).
In contrary I want to go in the competitive mode as a survivor with my friends because its too easy for us to play against some killers.
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Even if SBM really showed them how broken this game is, it won’t change a thing.
Buffing all killers except for 2 is too much work, and i can assure you these devs don’t want to do that. Just for record they took years to implement the current DS nerf.
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Skill Based Matchmaking
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Gen speed is biggest indicator of stronger survivor teams, so it is no surprise. Freddy can't compete vs good teams, he is only strong when he uses regression/gen perks, too bad devs are smoking weed and will still gut Freddy. I do not think that you will get balance changes from SBMM. I think you will only get objectively better matchmaking for survivor. Killers will lose more because they're facing survivors of their skill-level more often. Killers can stop bragging about how good they are at killing bad survivors from bad matchmaking.
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1 in 4 is not 'the majority' so I don't get how you think I implied that it is.
1 in 4 is still a huge portion of the base though at red ranks, and them suddenly not finding matches, and vice versa, would be bad.
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They DO balance around the highest level of play... When nerfs for killers are decided. That's the problem with the current system. SBMM will solve that because potatoes will not be constantly running into this high hour Freddy. The current system enables low rank survivors to get survivors buffed, which in turn further grants power to survivors that understand the game.
I'll say it... Ruin/Undying SHOULD NOT have been NERFED because again, elite survivors won against elite killers despite the add-on combo. Potatoes & low ranks refused to do totems and got the combo NERFED. SBMM will fix this in my opinion.
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You're right, 1 in 4 is not the majority. But you're whole argument is based on that 25% which seems, to me, like you're putting more value into them than the other 75%. And since you completely ignored my point about the lvl 12 killer vs swf (which was my whole entire rebuttal), my original point of you putting more value in the minority of the community stands.
The majority of the player base is casual and only plays for fun and possibly for the bp grind. Do you really think matching with players that are leagues better than you and getting curb stomped is fun? Spoiler alert: It's not. Most of these times its humbling at best and humiliating at its worst. Add in the toxicity, if you have the privilege of reading their post game messages. If the majority of this games community repeatedly receives this kind of experience then they will stop playing. Which will result in the same dilemma you're complaining about of long queue times but worse. The game will then eventually die off. The idea here is to try and keep the community enjoying the game and encouraging new players to play to keep up the longevity of this games shelf life...Make sense?
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I agree yet at the same time disagree.
It is pretty well known that at the highest MMR, only nurse and spirit are viable. The problem here is, you are assuming that the devs don't actually already know this fact. Like, with as "data focused" as they are, do you honestly think they don't already know? If they already know, why haven't they done anything about it for the literally years it has been a problem now?
On the flip side, i think they won't do anything early on, but what is going to happen is a cascading problem.
- High MMR survivors will only ever go against nurse and spirit.
- Eventually those survivors get bored, and quit playing.
- Those high level killers now have longer queues, but matchmaking starts expanding and matching them with lower skill survivors.
- These survivors aren't ready for High MMR, let alone a high MMR nurse and they get stomped.
- Those survivors get tired of playing against only nurse and spirit (noone else for the high MMR killers to play against) and they quit playing.
- Repeat until matchmaking no longer matches those nurses and spirits in a reasonable amount of time, so they eventually quit.
BHVR is smart enough to notice there is a problem around step 2 and address it imo.
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So, new players will only face Trapper and Trickster?
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Generally that is probably the case now. Matchmaking is usually smart enough to match new players with new players, so they are likely to face one of the free killers. Trapper is the most likely since he's the most iconic looking and he is the first choice, and in the trailer.
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because swf is a large part of the player base, and conversely what about those top tier killers having to wait 30 minutes to an hour for a game as well since they have to wait for 4 man who knows what they're doing to queue as well, which lets be honest most swfs don't.
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Here ya go.
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Agreed, problem is that people here don't see the bigger picture. If SBMM comes in and kill rates remain above 60% in relation to the majority of the playerbase (closer to 70% in red ranks) it won't be those 1% elite SWF's who get nerfed. The devs had said time and time again they consider 2 kills, 2 escapes to be balanced and the kill rates will ideally reflect that. I genuinely think a lot of people are going to be rather unpleasantly surprised when balance decisions are made based off MMR.
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SBMM will kill the fun of this game. Rank 1 is already a sweatfest half the time and if you're solo a complete coinflip. If they want to do SBMM then fine, whatever. But include a casual mode for people so they won't quit after getting stuck at high MMR and hating the game.
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Thank you for this. I, personally, don't consider 2 mans as a true swf with the exception of the extremely rare 2x2 man groups. And the reason is I still believe the tilt goes to the killer in these scenarios ( if he/she is decent) because there's still 2 people without coms that with the right pressure and chaos you can dictate the pace of the match. So, imo, thats 70-85% of the player base that isn't swf. So the devs shouldn't cater to, according to this graph, approximately 15% of the community.
People need to remember that everyone starts out new and casual. You want to keep gaining new players and keep the community with positive experiences...Within reason. Casuals matching with swf's will deter people from playing killer or stop playing altogether. Which will result in those dreadful long queues or worse. Kill the whole community.
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You're gonna see less killer players if this MMR works out the way it should, because nobody wants to be forced to play Nurse and Spirit all the time to have a chance against the best of the best. The MMR will take away the variety of playing different killers, and with someone like Wraith who just got a well deserved buff he still will struggle massively because he's not like Nurse. Both sides won't be happy with what's to come
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No, because it will then prove KILLERS NEED TO BE BUFFED to be viable. At the rate we are going, NERFING every Killer that can actually threaten survivors will also kill the game. Freddy is going to be unjustly destroyed just like Billy was... Why? Because there are too many potatoes at ranks they shouldn't be. These survivors shouldn't be at these ranks. It inflates the kill rates and will yet again shorten the pool of killers at said ranks because the top tier survivors will always be top tier. They've been playing too long to fear any killer not named Nurse.
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There's a simple solution to this that would be beneficial for everyone.
Have the existing matchmaking and SBMM as two different options.
Done.
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Nope. You are completely wrong.
Freddy destroys 99% of the playerbase. He destroys solo q, which is a high high percentage of the people playing. Once again, like Scott said, the devs already know that Freddy and all killers get destroyed at the highest 1% of the game.
But they aren't going to cater to the game to the highest killers playing swf. Nor should they. Most killers will face solo q survivors anyway. They need to cater to the largest player base they can. Freddy needs to be nerfed. But that doesn't mean that they don't need to address the core problem of killers not competing against high quality survivors. But that's a separate issue
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Exactly! The question should be: how can we fix this issue without ruining the game for the majority?
There's two separate issues. High rank killers can't compete against high rank survivors. But in all other situations, another issue is that Freddy is OP 😂. Freddy being op affects the other half of the player base.
There's got to be a way to help killers in the first situation and hurt Freddy in the others
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So of we nerf spirit & Nurse how people want them nerfed... Like Billy, what killer can actually threaten top tier survivors? Spirit & Nurse are the only 2 left that control the chase. Without them, what killers win a tournament? What killers stop even a 2 man ELITE SWF? Come on. We need potatoes out of these ranks.
Freddy doesn't destroy 99% of nothing. The kill rates are inflated to Mars because potatoes & hook suicide. If he was so powerful, he'd be viable comp level. He's not for good reason!
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And Freddy is gutted. I told you guys. SBMM would've prevented this, but this current system won't stop until No killer can truly stop SWF.
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