DS change in my opinion is good and healthy, but has one major failure, if not even a bug
Selfcare or healing yourself with a medkit should definitely NOT disable DS. This is a huge thing that totally counters its intended anti tunneling purpose. I would like to hear an official statement if that is actually intended and if yes, why. Probably add that being fully healed deactivates it instead.
Some sidenote I would like to hear opinions on: as it is really just helping in the case of tunneling, would it be an option to increase the timer? I don't think it can be abused, as you are basically useless to the team if you try to keep up your timer.
Another possible change in my opinion (but not combineable with the above change) would be to allow DS activation and usage after every unhook. If you get hit once, you know as killer you can be hit another time. Would like to hear if someone really got struck by DS after the change while thinking to be not tunneling.
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If you have time to heal, you are NOT being tunneled.
Should I say anything else? Or is it clear enough?
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If you can heal, you are not being tunneled. That's honestly pretty straight forward.
What you are asking/talking about isn't just a buff to DS so much as you want tunnelling itself to be nerfed, in which case I get it I understand it can be frustrating and almost all of us want that to not be a thing.
However two things you need to understand are that A- The developers think it's fine, even if you don't like it, they do. Also B- That the game because of that, is literally balanced around those facts.
So say they made DS just, always work every time you are tunneled with no downside, even reuse it if they keep trying to tunnel you more.....okay well suddenly to balance that killers only need to hook you twice to kill you or something because survivors escape rate like doubles.
(an extreme exaggeration but it's to make my point as clear as possible)
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If you have time to touch yourself for a second to deactivate DS and then the killer returns after hitting that guy away from the gen, then yeah, I would call it tunneling
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Yeah, I know devs said that. My thought is, they say it because they have no idea to address it properly. They brought in DS and BT and -% on emblems for camping, so they kinda admitted that it is not the best playstyle, and they agreed on stream that it is ######### for that one guy. But basically I asked for your opinion, not for the devs opinion.
I don't think escape rates would double. But this is a long discussion that will definitely lead to biased argumentation, so I'm not even starting it
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They want people to have the choice of using perks to mitigate it if it bothers them, which means they are balanced around that.
Also, I didn't necessarily say escape rates would double I said that was basically an exaggeration just to make it clear that if you make a large scale nerf to killer essentially, you have to give as well. Most people ignore that part and just say "Remove everything I don't like" and it doesn't work that way.
If you just don't want to discuss or listen though, then fine, I am okay with just calling it here then.
also; you literally just described something that is not tunneling.
Don't just start trying to heal right next to the killer because he walks off just a few meters to hit someone get away. That's not tunneling that's a bad survivor play and it's consequences. If I hit someone, injure them and they blast away, and see you still in the dead middle of nowhere trying to heal right where I just stepped from why on earth would I not down you again?
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Scenario:
you are hooked by a wraith. He goes bing bong.
You are unhooked. You run from the hook and find somewhere out of sight to start healing. You begin to med kit.
The second you begin your heal, he uncloaks nearby and heads right over to you. You are still injured and now you have no DS.
That is 100% tunnelling. You can replace the wraith with a blight who rushes over or pretty much anything really.
Beginning to self heal is not advancing objectives. It does not alter the state of play for the killer in any way until you are actually healed. The only reason I can think of that you are against changing DS to only deactivate after fully/50%/75% healing yourself is that you do, in fact, want to tunnel somebody.
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Why are you healing so close to the hook and then complaining about not having DS?
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well, I guess we need to call oxford then on the definition of tunneling. turning your back on a survivor for a second doesnt cancel the tunneling attempt in my opinion. this is just a "wait a second, I'll come for you in a moment" for me
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Now THIS is an actual argument I can understand.
I honestly agree with this, that is an instance of actually tunneling someone. Something the new DS doesn't quite address and I think it's a problem.
Doing something dumb in front of a killer and getting hit for it is not though lol.
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If you get healed by a "We'll make it" under the hook and the killer is close enough to interrupt and kill you, ignoring the unhooker, you wouldn't consider it tunneling as you got touched?
Besides that, how did you get to the "close to the hook"? I was talking about being chased near a gen
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I assumed you were talking about the killer actually tunneling you, not you getting cocky and running to the killer
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For some, a killer that breaks of a chase and ignore all other survivors to go for an injured survivor trying to hide and heal himself might very well be tunneling. But since your definition seems to be different, can you give me yours?
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There is a solution for this. It may not be easy or convenient, though I don't think everything in the game should be, when hooked, you can run to a loop and have a teammate heal you. If the Killer follows you there, you have DS still up since your teammate did the healing, not you, and you have the loop to help waste more of the killers time.
Survivors should always have some risk and should never feel 100 percent safe.
Also, does Inner Strength cancel out DS? If not, that is an option.
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You know, apart from when you run a healing build and heal mid-chase/tunnel. Which isn't uncommon whatsoever.
Not to mention that DS doesn't last long enough for good players to actually get use out of it the majority of the time, which means they're being punished with an empty perk slot, essentially, if they run it in case they get countered, but being able to heal in the middle of chase without it deactivating would balance it out.
The current DS is dumb design, and everyone sensible that plays both roles knows it. It should simply have been a double rate of the timer in certain instances (NOT healing) and either paused or half rate of decay in chase/in proximity of killer/slugged after being unhooked.
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I agree with the effect being to weak at the moment. I read someone saying that it should activate twice (for each hook state) and maybe an increased stun time to make it a bigger punishment for tunneling.
But I don't agree that DS shouldn't deactivate even when healing yourself because you obviously aren't getting tunneled if you have the time to heal.
Regarding Wraith following you cloaked and waiting for you to touch that heal button to be able to tunnel you. I'd say that is partly the Survivors fault as well for not being aware of the Killers presence. Never heal in an unsafe position regardless of being unhooked previously or not. Always get to a pallet first, watch out for possible danger and then start healing which will deactivate DS. If the Killer is there, at least now you are quite safe with a pallet or window setup making it a bit harder for the Killer to get you.
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You could use a syringe mid chase tbf
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Seems you didn't play survivor, like ever. You can bring a medkit and heal a tiny bit after every pallet/loop. You trade distance for a tiny bit of heal progress.
Any other opinions you want to share with us? Can I make this any more clear for you?
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You know that healing yourself removes ds.
So i'm not sure why you would bring ds and a build to heal yourself mid chase and then complain they don't work together.
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The rework is still pretty inconsistent on this aspect.
If you have time to get healed you're not getting tunneled either. Except you still get to keep DS. But if you simply tap self-care it's gone.
You can also use Inner Strength or Second Wind and still keep DS, which doesn't make much more sense either.
I'd much prefer that the perk deactivated once healed to healthy state and it would be more reasonable from a gameplay point of view. Even 99'ing wouldn't be abusable in that case, because you can't still do anything else.
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It's important to know when healing by the hook is worth the risk. If you know the killer is far away and in chase, you can heal quite safely. Other than that, don't stay there and expect them not to return. Find a safe place and then heal.
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Did you even read the topic? It is about how DS shouldn't deactivate when you heal yourself. I'm not sure why you commented at all when clearly the point of the topic when over your head.
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Because there's nothing wrong with ds deactivating when you heal yourself. People just need to be smarter before they start to heal themselves.
DS is no longer an immunity perk and people need to learn to behave around the fact it no longer offers complete immunity.
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"If you can heal, you're not being tunneled" -People who've never played Survivor
You can either start healing, or move away a bit and start healing and not yet know that the killer is already gunning for you. Walking takes a few seconds. You won't know right away. Stealth killers also exist.
Now, if you can FULLY heal, then yes, you're not being tunneled. But if I've just started healing and now I see the killer coming straight back to me, yes I'm most certainly being tunnelled.
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Then dont instantly heal and play more tacticfull.
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Shout out to every survivor that immediately left the hook area for a safer area, started healing, and then found out that the killer has Nurse's Calling and knows exactly where they are. But they're definitely playing bad and not getting tunneled, right? Can't believe they didn't know they weren't safe smhhh
There's also killers like Spirit who can just show up out of nowhere and clap you 💀 and you're right about stealth killers, especially on indoor maps (or indoor maps with most aura reading perks/add ons)
A lot of people run DS as the insurance that they won't get immediately tossed back on hook if a teammate makes a bad play, or to make sure there is an obsession in solo queue, etc., so it's not like they're wanting to walk around for the entire 60s doing nothing before they heal up. Plenty of people look around, check to see if they're good to go, and then go and heal so they can get back in the game. But now they're screwed if any of the situations I or other people in this thread mentioned come up- and they're all reasonable situations that aren't out of the ordinary. I just don't understand how healing yourself should deactivate the perk. Healing others, sure- the killer can come back and instead of two injured people, there is one healed guy and the injured guy has DS and isn't worth picking up. But healing yourself? 🤨
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Who is talking about instantly healing? So by any argumentation so far, running around the map for a minute before doing anything and then running into the killer because I wasnt sure if I can heal or not, then I get tunneled because I had no time to heal? I think some of you try to make this more simple than it is
healing takes 16 seconds which is enough time for the killer to find you again. do you guys really expect to make sure the killer is 60m away before you start healing, to be sure you dont get interrupted? if the first guy dies on third hook of the match, then he most likely got tunneled, no matter what happened between the hooks. there are just very rare scenarios where you can say that it was just unlucky to find the same survivor again and again
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thanks for the summary. I just expect there will be headless rough scenarios to counterargument :/
most of all, I don't see how such a change like "just after finishing healing" would be abusable. no one who criticises here gives some idea about this, just the regular "you are not tunneled, per my definition, so deactivate DS"
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Totally agree. MOST tunneling happens this way. They get the hit in a new chase and immediately go to find the other survivor. In SOLO Q you're left trying to figure out is he coming back? You are forced to either wait out your DS i.e. do nothing (which makes the perk killer sided). Or try to heal only before realising after your 2 second of healing that oh crap, he's come back to tunnel me!
It's a totally useless perk and I don't know why anyone would run it anymore. You'd be better just accepting you're going to get tunneled regardless this game then move on.
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I don't think that even fully healing yourself should deactivate DS. Healing a teammate, yeah I can see the argument for why it should be deactivated on that. But yourself...? DS is more than likely going to be gone by the time you go down after a full heal, and if not, it's not like anything changed in the match- the unhooked guy with DS active still spent at least 16 seconds healing himself. The only thing I can think of being an issue is a self-healed, recently unhooked guy taking a body block for another teammate, taking the chase, and then still somehow having DS when he goes down and gets picked up but like... that's so far fetched and requires a lot of coordination and lucky timing, along with poor decision making on the killer's side.
Staying completely on topic, at the very least, it shouldn't deactivate upon a single heal tap upon yourself.
But yeah. Many killers I run into on DBD say they weren't tunneling when they get called out for it in post game chat by other players- even when it is the most blatant and defined type of tunneling, so I wouldn't expect too many people here to be very tolerant of any definition of tunneling that includes examples outside of the most absolute and rigid definition of tunneling.
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Second Wind deactivates DS. Not sure about Inner Strength though.
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you can heal during chases if the killer starts mindgaming himself. seriously it always happens
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Oh it does. My friend always uses second wind and as soon as he healed, it deactivated.
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New BT is 1000 times better
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