Does BT need additional changes?
Personally I think BT should needs a major overhaul in a few ways
1. Survivors at base get BT effect for 3 seconds to discourage tunneling and works without a perk
2. BT current effect is decreased to 10 seconds cap and only active at EGC.
3. Separate new perk that allows 7 extra seconds (so 10 total) prior to EGC.
Right now BT has way to much utility that it being a nearly must have perk indicates it needs changes (similar to how DS was). Having one perk with this much power, active the entire game, and has no killer counterplay (not everything needs a counter but this should have something)
Not sure if this is a thing or not but I'd like a ptb to try out instant downs as canceling BT. Not saying it should go live but I'd like to see how it goes.
Comments
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I think BT is working the way it should.
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At minimum the perk just needs to give the person rescued zero collision for the duration. This means it's even better for anti-tunnel because it can avoid double hits like Bubbas saw, while simultaneously taking out its abusive use of blocking for other people.
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I primarily take issue with it being both active no matter what for how long it is. It hurts stealth killers a lot and makes exit escapes almost a given as well
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It only hurts Stealth Killers if they want to camp. And the change does not really change how it works in Endgame.
And personally, if a Killer has more than 1 Survivor left in Endgame, they already lost. At least I consider it a loss at this point.
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This is a tough one imo. BT already had minimal counter play and now it has none except for the bubba tantrum hitting mentioned above. Now in end game it gives guaranteed escapes(assuming the unhooked player knows to body block for the person who unhooked them). I'm all for discouraging camping/tunneling. Personally idc what the devs say this "strategy" is unsportsmanlike behavior b/c it ruins the game experience for the survivor they target. But it's easy to see how BT will be abused in the end game. I'm not sure what but I do think killers should be given some form of counter play option that isn't exclusive to one killer.
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It hurts all killers. Stealth just means you are staying close to the hook. The very thing BT is trying to mitigate.
Even if it was the way you want it, you still need to play around DS. Which another forum post is trying to do now. Taking away all opportunities will only make survivors not try and leave. This may sound preferable to you but survivors typically throw their life away to save another. Too many times have I seen a 1k turn into 4k because of "no one left behind" mentality.
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I'd like some change that disincentives hook diving the moment the Killer takes about two steps away from the hook. A change that shuts off BT once the Gates are powered would be nice too.
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I think it's fine even after the buff. The only thing that would be nice if they changed is removing collision for survivors affected by BT.
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Honestly the buff could have just been "is not affected by Oblivious or Undetectable" and it would have meant the exact same thing in most scenarios, the only situation i think it could be a problem is if you are just far away enough where you can't hit the person who's unhooking but even then, not that much of a deal
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Yeah I primarily.mean stealth killers further no longer benefit from hiding even it its far away. Stealth killers lack chase potential and have overall been the weakest types of killers (I wouldn't consider spirit stealth imo). 12 seconds of invincibility is a long time and I think is too much for the entire game and across the entire map. I'm all for people having options to discourage camping and such but I think BT should have some limits even if they are minor. I rarely see people try to save honestly. Most games I've played survivors want their team to die (for hatch) or will leave right away anyways. Survivors should be given some last resort options like DS (although I wish the juggle thing was still a thing) but I think killers should also be given similar opportunities for themselves (besides noed)
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Having 0 collision for 12s is way too strong.
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Huntress with a cross map hatchet, Deathslinger with Monitor and abuse
T2 Michael with Monitor and dead rabbit.
Hag, Nurse, Freddy or Demo teleporting in after the unhook is completed
The way they did it just catches some more cases where you may not have been in Terror radius when you unhooked, but the situation changed rapidly
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I don't use either. Nice try guy. I main PH
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Also to participate in the conversation, I think Deep Wounds from BT should either be more dangerous, or should have some additional downside to reduce the aggressive BT bodyblocks. (Same with styptic agent, but I don't want to just add it to Legion or Deathslinger's basekit without some research)
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I'll try to test out the maximum distance covered in 12 seconds to get a better feel for how this new change actually is (with and without exhaustion perks)
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Nope try again. Just because someone has an issue doesn't mean they are a garbage player. Thanks for flippantly dismissing my thoughts.
The freedy change for BT was a must change though. That was too insane.
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Timer could be lowered.
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i think bt is fine as is, although i wouldnt mind if the person with Endurance doesnt have collision to discourage BT body blocking
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also those scenarios, those scenarios are really stupid (the hag one in particular WHO THOUGHT LETTING HAG PLACE TRAPS UNDER HOOKS WAS FAIR)
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The real question with BT is how we keep it strong for preventing face camping/tunneling while simultaneously not encouraging zero thought process just instant yolo'ing in with no skill required or downside for bad plays, as well as using it for purposes other than face camping/tunneling (body blocking other people with it).
That's the tough balancing question with it.
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My issue is you can cover a lot of distance in 12 seconds, especially with exhaustion perks that even if you are not at all close to hook the survivor gets a free escape both during the main game and at end.
Granted I still have to test this but I imagine this scenario playing out.
1. Killer hooks survivor 2 hooks away from open exit gate then killer goes to exit gate
2. Survivor gets unhooked with BT and has sprint burst.
3. Survivor runs towards killer
4. Killer hits in hopes BT no longer active (it is).
5. Survivor gets additional burst from hit and gets out of exit
6. Survivor who unhooked survivor either finds hatch or runs through killer and takes a hit thats meaningless
Now I'm fine with a perk that can allow something like this but to have it not only at the end but the entire match is too much imo. They should be seperate perks but survivors should be given a base minor BT effect to discourage camping. It's just too much packed into a single perk to me
Post edited by IWasLeft2Die on2 -
Yeah true true. I was in the camp that BT was too much before since it's by far the most used perk (although it did need some buffs like the freddy thing). Even if you protect hook you'll get (assuming you don't grab off hook) one hit on approaching survivor, BT survivor body block, BT survivor takes a hit, both escape (with initial hit survivormost likely having DH.
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Nah, BT is fine as it is. Unless you want to revert it back to its original version, which protected both survivors but could only be used once. I can understand such change.
Otherwise, the perk is fine.
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I could be on board with this change
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Why do survivors want BT for free so bad? What perk are you running that is so important you can't replace with BT? Survivors are already invulnerable while they are being unhooked to the point hitting them RIGHT before they can start moving can completly make you lose the game. And you want that for 3 extra seconds?
Surv scum really want those safe hook points super bad don't they?
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Not sure if you are directing this at me? I mostly suggested it as a compromise and I honestly don't like when I play survivor to be utterly screwed by an idiot teammate who hook dives and doesn't have BT. 3 seconds feels reasonable of BT itself got nerfed
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Same. Here, take a look:
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I totally forgot about this. Yeah this id be into. Really ill take just about anything that makes it less of a must have perk
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Sure, let’s nerf DS again too. Why stop there? Let’s nerf all exhaustion perks too, they’re so OP. I want easy wins
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Also give them no clip for objects, so they can run through walls while bt is active 👍
Bt ruins the Idea of the Game. Vote 4 nerf.
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yes that was definitely insane just like other stealth killers who prevented BT.
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It was already fine as it way it was, the buff was unnecessary, it only needed to work against freddy, not disable any counterplay with all stealth killers.
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so you're telling me is should still work with a camping crouched pig/ ghostface... okay
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Honestly I'm fine with stealth killers benefiting since they are overall the weakest type of killer even before the BT buff. This just takes away just about the only thing they were better at than other killers
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Stealth was the counter to BT, BHVR is going to get rid of that because it didn't work against Freddy. Stealth killers are all at best decent, the last thing they needed was a nerf. It also rewards bad play from the survivor POV.
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the only possible change I could see is make it so the killer is within 25-30 meters for BT to go off.
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That would still screw stealth killers though, and it still would reward bad plays from survivors.
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current BT rewards bad plays though
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I know, but that doesn't mean it should reward it even more.
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