When Is That Spirit Nerf Coming?
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There isn't a single killer that truly meats the definition of overpowered. Obnoxious? Maybe. In need of a rework? Maybe.
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Hag gets dunked on if any of the survivors have even a modicum of experience playing as her to know how exploitable her traps are.
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If a killer can be that cracked strong using ######### in the game available to them in comparison to other killers using the same ######### available maybe they're the problem not what they're using.
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Actually, there is. The Nurse is by dictionary definition completely, utterly op to the point where she doesn't play DBD, she plays The Nurse: The Game. However a lot of people (not all, a lot) are more okay with Nurse than other killers due to the rarity of actually good Nurse players and the skill it takes to get there. Comparatively more skill than Spirit will ever take in her life.
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I dont agree, the meta perks and cheap strats skew perception, just because bubba's can basement camp like no other and can get 4k's that way does not mean the killer is OP.
Its just players with no backbone using everything they can to give themselves an edge, which is frankly pathetic but should not reflect on the killer really, more on all that nonsense they use (and alos the "strats" I mentioned work well for most killers, just a bit better for thsoe who are also highly mobile)
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Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. If a killer can use something in the game to become genuinely uncounterable which, when used by other killers, still provides solid ample counterplay, then it's the killer that's the problem, not what they're using.
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Freddy nerf confirmed. Oh look, survivors are already asking for a Spirit nerf. What a surprise.
The list of viable red rank killers gets shorter and shorter. Meanwhile the survivor queues get longer and longer.
I wonder if survivors have enough when they'll wait 45+ minutes for a match, only to get matched against a rank 17 killer.
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Survivors have been asking for Spirit nerfs since her PTB. The only mega broken thing about her was the original Prayer Beads, but given that DbD is an early access game in all facets but label, I'm not surprised that it came out like that.
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I would before all that claim its hte players that are the problem who have so little self respect, but thats just me I guess....
what happened to gamers man...seriously, we used to love challenges, we used to have runs of RE with just the knive etc and look up to players doing that, we used to spend weeks on solving a puzzle in some adventure game.....
and now players ask and google "what is the best X" so they know what to use.....and in this game run the meta and all the add ons etc to help them along as much as possible....saddens me greatly.
heck personally I would LOVE a perkless mode for this game, no nonsense to save you, just you and your wits, strategy and skill
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I mean, some people still enjoy that, I know I'm still trying to work up the balls to do a RE2make knife only run lmao. But in a game vs other people where you don't even have to pretend to be a good person you can just go ham on ruining their experience. Which is why I don't think a perkless mode would work- they're the bandaid fixes for all the problems in the game. Without DS people would get tunneled out of the game hardcore and camped as there's no BT, and Spirit would reign supreme as there's no Iron Will nor Spine Chill. On the flip side gens would fly by so quick as there'd be nothing to snowball from without Infectious, nor slowdown perks available to stay in the game longer.
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tbh the game has gone way too far and probably can never be balanced, the amount of aura reading and one hit downs make the game a miserable experience, spirit is like gasoline being poured onto a forest fire, it's bad but so is everything else
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"What happened to gamers man"
Ok boomer
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Spirit was already nerfed, yes. But the new nerf requests fittingly appar after another nerf was confirmed.
Once Spirit gets nerfed, survivors will move one to the next killer.
Noticed how Billy, the most balanced killer we had before they made some "minor adjustments", isn't listed as viable killer on red ranks anymore?
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Nah, not really. He should be asking for nerfs to overpowered stuff. The reason being that, even IF other killers were buffed, 99% of the time people would still throw themselves onto the easier stuff, because sadly that is human nature. Not for everybody, luckily, but still.. And that is the reason why there are FAR more Spirit players than Nurse players. Because, even though Nurse can be godly, she requires actual SKILL and thinking to use. Spirit does NOT. Which is also why, even if a Nurse demolishes you, it doesn't feel unfair, because you have true proper ways to counter her or waste a lot of her time AND she won't be so reliant on the cheap killer's trump cards, Bloodlust and tunneling.
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Ey don't doubt my boy Scooby-Doo we will get the chapter eventually i believe!
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I mean, I've literally been complaining about her since her 2nd set of buffs. As have many others. People were asking for Spirit nerfs for ages but somehow we've gotten the Billy nerf, Freddy rework, and then his nerf again before she's been nerfed to not be bullshit op.
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Eventually mayhaps
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Onto a serious on topic note. This is a 4v1 game so obviously the 4 will always have the advantage in most situations if they are of equal skill unless the 1 is very strong. This is why theres a threshold at high ranks where all killers but nurse and spirit will drop off they are the only 2 with huge map pressure AND anti loop. Normally other killers have checks and balances. Billy for instance huge map pressure but his anti loop is none. Pyramid head the opposite. So a very good team will yeah eventually if mmr comes out like scott,tru3 and dowsey said "will beat out every killer but nurse and spirit at the highest level of play" is that a bad thing? Kinda because it shows the lack of diversity at the highest level that you should try to avoid. People don't want to see the same old thing at the highest level its what killed owl goats was played match after match. Also streamers bring in a lot of people and we saw what happened to dowsey when mmr was implemented. If there was a major rebalance which buffed solos and buffed a few killers and rebalanced all the killers into a same general power level then maybe this game would finally be interesting. A tournament level swf may be a rare occurrence but it should still be acknowledged. I personally hate spirit but i understand their reluctance.
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"If there was a major rebalance which buffed solos and buffed a few killers and rebalanced all the killers into a same general power level then maybe this game would finally be interesting"
We've been begging for years but the ######### small game change and the community's allergic reaction the reading the words "Survivor" and "buff" near each other despite the word "solo" before it means this will probably never happen
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I know most people dislike a rebalance since theres really no way to balance top level swf. If we say did buff solos a good bit and rebalanced the killers to a same general power level swf would still just be as strong and beat out now every killer. Swf despite my hate to say it majorly breaks a game based around solo play.
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Which is why the game needs to be rebalanced around not solo play. Everything needs to be adjusted. You cannot nerf SWF in any way, shape, or form, nor can you remove it outright.
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Hmmm... Balanced. So to have players travelling across the whole map, with infinite instadowns that are the only way a Billy player is ever going to hit you, without slowdowns while revving the chainsaw, with hitboxes that got you THROUGH walls... Is that your idea of balanced? As much as it wasn't OP, it wasn't balanced either. Everything that can be spammed isn't balanced. If you want to talk about the most balanced killer, you should pick Ghostface. As much as he isn't top tier he is, in fact, balanced.
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The thing is that holding W can only do so much. You are never really going to beat someone who is going to tunnel you to death, because they will get faster and faster and you will end up in dead corners or placs where pallets have already been wasted/are unsafe as a spot where there are no pallets. This "hold W" argument could only apply if Bloodlust was not a thing anymore. And no, Freddy CAN keep up with good survivors. It all comes down to what your definition of "good survivors" is. If it is that of a full premade SWF group, then every killer will eventually struggle because of how coordinated they can be.
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I played all killers, not great at all of them but so far my conclusions facing multiple high ranks:
Trapper: if survivors dont see you place traps, extremely powerful, any visibility guts his ability.
Wraith: post-rework actually harder to get kills with as previously you could walk up close and almost guarantee a hit if you snuck up unnoticed, but that could be just me not being used to windstorm being basekit. Still fine
HillBilly: Feels very clunky to play right now, which makes him frustrating to play which impacts results a bit, with that in mind, can still hold his own
Nurse: I mean, she needs counterplay, I'm quite bad with Nurse but I am good at knowing where I need to pressure people, even with my bad skill in Nurse, the second blink almost always guarantees me a hit. I'd actually say that her flashlight burn needs to be applied 4x quicker and it would be a good change.
Myers: Really depends on the map, addons and perks. Can steamroll a sweat squad one game and be a potato the next. Really needs a basekit improvement.
Hag: needs counterplay, can easily deal with survivors, has by far the best defensive ability, the only reason you'd lose as a hag is if you're much worse than the survivors you're facing.
Doctor: Holds his own on the vast majority of maps, there are a few pallet loops that cause him some issues, but with the right timing in shocks those issues will disappear. Once the shack pallet is gone, there is no loop that is safe enough.
Huntress: easily holds her own. Probably one of the healthiest killers out there.
Cannibal: pretty overbuffed right now, barely need any perks or addons to win games unless you're facing sweatsquads(which isnt equal as high rank btw). Excluding the fact that he is the only killer that can hit someone with BT twice in the same attack even if the survivors made no mistakes.
Freddy: Holds his own just fine, the rework and BT change will make him much healthier as people can no longer rely on spamming traps everywhere.
Pig: Has one of the best basekits in terms of slowing down gens, heavily relies on perks and addons to catch survivors in a chase tho. Needs either later warnings or needs faster crouch speeds.
Clown: One of the quickest chase enders in the game, can hold his own just fine.
Spirit: needs counterplay, I only have 10 hours in spirit, use 0 addons and very low tier perks and can keep up with 99.999% of the games I play. The 0.001% of games being sweatsquads with 4 brand new parts, prove thyself etc, and even then I could just slap on NOED to get an easy 3k. She needs a nerf.
Legion: if you have the perks to compensate for the weaknesses his power brings, he's actually one of the most reliable killers to get kills with.
Plague: Same with Legion, except that she can use her power to down survivors, causing her to be arguably the most destructive killer on this list.
Ghostface: A mix of Piggy and Myers, except he has nice crouch speeds. Has quite a succesful rate if you use his power in your advantage. Hiding the red spot mid-chase is heavily underestimated by players.
Demo: Quite decent, especially now his portals are actually useful.
Oni: holds his own quite easily even without gen regression perks
Deathslinger: His only weakness is gen defence, which he doesnt really need since he can down people so quickly.
PH: Can hold his own, is fine as he is.
Blight: easily holds his own
Twins: also easily holds her own.
Trickster: probably the weakest on the roster right now, but you need a weakest killer. If Trickster isnt the weakest killer, someone else will be.
Out of all of these, the killers that have issues with getting kills against sweatsquads are:
Ghostface, Pig, Trickster, Myers and Trapper(depending on visibility on Trapper). You could even argue Billy, but that's due to Billy being frustrating more than his power being weak.
The rest is either capable of getting at least 2 kills against sweatsquads. Which is by definition "having a chance against high ranks" means. If both sides are equally skilled, you should expect the endresult to be a tie.
But if you mean by "high ranks" being consistent rank 1 players, then you're simply bad at killers in general and the only reason you encounter them is because you only play killers like Spirit and Nurse. Sometimes the balancing issue isnt certain killers being too weak, its simply you not utalizing their abilities in your favor. Nurse and Spirit are killers that can easily dedicate to any chase while ignoring gens, when other killers need to let go of chases in favor of injuring more people. All killers that are not on the above list but are not Freddy, Spirit or Nurse are killers that are not performing well if you only tunnelvision in a chase.
The amount of rank 1 killers I have faced that played Legion or Wraith that ran by a generator that was 70% done and decided to dedicate to the chase rather than gaining free hits from 1-3 survivors and a potentially easy down is too high. Sure, you 'wasted' any chase time between the last time you hit the survivor you were chasing up to the moment you reached the gen. But you would need to move to that gen anyway, you just took a small detour keeping 1 survivor busy and gained a free hit in exchange.
And sure, if you go to the 0.01% of players that actually actively play tournaments, sure, Nurse and Spirit might be the only ones capable of getting 3k's. So what? How often do you face that 0.01% of players? And how big is your ego to declare yourself to be capable of facing those survivors even if you were to play spirit or nurse? This argument never holds any water.
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Again, no. Unless he is running snares, the fake pallet spam he can do now will be enough to catch any survivor. But I guess this won't be enough to change your mind, so whatever. Plus, usually Freddys will be running Ruin and Tinkerer or BBQ, which means he as more than enough map pressure with his teleport.
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But tthat is part of the point. When only a small percentage of high rank survivors are actually good, then it doesnt mean spirit is op. Because actually only a small percentage of spirit players is actually good.
But with the ranking and matchmaking system, we might never know for sure.
Yes, the good spirits most likly win, but so do the good nurses, and even the good hillbillys. The mediocre spirits won´t, if surviviors not just try to loop them.
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Most of the community agreed that Billy was the gold standard on how a killer should be balanced.
But i guess, there is always someone who thinks something is unbalanced.
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I think this game has more pressing matters than nerfing Spirit. At least right now.
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Currently yeah but 4.1.0? Definitely not
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Let me think... 4.1.0 was around the time it went all down. Survivors got long queues because killers suddenly didn´t enjoyed their role anymore.
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No, not really. She ignores loops and has good (but not overwhelmingly good without certain add-ons) mobility. The result, when the best Nurse players play against the best survivor players, the results match up what you'd expect out of a balanced game. She's oppressive in chases when played perfectly and not having 5 blink bugs in a row (thanks BHVR, that legit makes me not to want to play Nurse again after getting Hawkings, Lery's, Hawkings), which is not the same as being overpowered. Overpowered means that amongst parties of equal skill, one side has something that gives a huge advantage in influencing the match results. Nurse has disproportionate say in how chases go and slightly above average influence in how the macro goes through blink mobility. Survivors still disproportionately determine that macro of a match. The result is what a truly balanced experience looks like. A lot of survivor teams win simply because they dominate the macro of DBD and the mincro (chases) is only slightly in the killer's favor, if that.
Also, on the subject of "playing DBD." Aside from that silly perspective that a survivor has to be able to loop a killer to be playing DBD, looping is effectively born from a collision exploit but got normalized and accepted as a game mechanic. Nurse is, technically speaking, what happens when the game is played as the developers originally intended. From a certain point of view, Nurse VS survivors is the most authentic DBD experience.
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For the love of god dont compare nurse to spirit. Nurse is 100 times more fun to play against. As funny as it sounds, but at least nurse has some counterplay: you can block her line of sight, double back, etc.
Against a good spirit with good hearing you can do nothing. I don't know anyone that considers playing against a good spirit fun.She can outplay almost all tiles/loops on all maps with her ability and has crazy mobility.
I would like that spirit gets nerfed so that she has some counterplay: for example make it, that you can see if she phases or hear her footsteps (inside terror radius) , that she leaves a afterimage every 2 seconds at her current position when she phases or something like that.
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Wait for mmr and she won't have horrible Survivors to make her feel easy.
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so basically you're saying you want a 50 minute queue as survivor?
because that's what you're going to get when spirit gets nerfed. SWF is already a problem and spirit has been keeping them fair.
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killers are already weak, ask any SWF
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Well...
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