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DBD has become extremely Pay to Win. We need more ways to earn shards...
Full disclosure: I have been playing since 2016 and own all of the DLC for this game. I only started getting characters with shards once Oni was released. I feel that I have been complacent and unaware, like a frog in pot of water steadily rising in temperature. Only after recently introducing a few of my friends to this game have I realized just how bad it has gotten...
With the upcoming release of the RE chapter, this game will now have EIGHT chapters and/or paragraphs with characters and or perks totally locked behind a pay wall, out of a total of TWENTY or so total chapters, the total cost of which amounts to $129.80. This, on top of the base $30 price tag of the game amounts to almost $160 ($62 of which is all licensed); an outrageous price for a multiplayer-only game, and that doesn't even include cosmetics or battle passes.
Oh, but Wisdom, I hear you say, you can buy many of those characters with shards! Well exactly how many shards do you need to get all of these "free" characters? 198,000!! And about how long do you need to grind to get these shards? According to the wiki, you will earn about 260 shards per hour (if you constantly get games, but good luck with that), so it will take you upwards of 760 HOURS of JUST playtime to unlock all of the unlockable characters in this game. Every time a new chapter drops on this insane pile of DLC, I am less and less inclined to recommend this game today more of my friends. For anyone who gets into this game now, it is unrealistic to expect to have full access to all characters and perks, especially with the rate at which new content is released. New players will never be able to catch up.
Someone else who plays other video games, please, is this the industry standard now? Am I crazy for thinking that this is getting excessive? How do other games compare when it comes to grind like this? I would love to hear about other people's perspectives and experiences with this and other games. Give me your hot takes...
So how do we fix this without making people have to play this game like it's their second job?
1. Have shard sales for certain characters. — I think this one is a no-brainer. We've had auric cell sales for characters whenever they show up I the tome, why can't we have shard sales? If people had better access to these characters, it could also encourage them to buy the battlepass.
2. Create more proactive ways for players to earn shards. — These can come in the form of daily challenges similar to the blood point dailies, or they could be additional rewards for completing archive challenges in addition to BP and Rift fragments.
3. Add shards to the battlepass. — adding shards to both the free and premium tracts is something everyone would appreciate. It helps the free players, and is a great reward for people who invest in the pass!
Tl;Dr; Game is becoming increasingly bloated with DLC, MTX, Battlepasses, and insane grind. People who jump into the game now are at a severe disadvantage against people who have been playing for years. Mount Grind gets taller and taller every day, and shows no signs of slowing down. Newer players are at a severe disadvantage and are suffocating under a mountain of insurmountable dlc and grind. Its time to give them a chance. And, as an older player who bought everything as it came out, I AM OKAY WITH THIS. Give people a chance BHVR...
What's everyone else's hot take on this?
Addendum:
What I'm trying to point out here is that the insane grind is what is making this game PTW. If you don't want to invest 800 hours of your time grinding to get all the unlockable content in DBD, then GIVE US MONEY. They're using the grind to get more money out of you.
Are there sales for this game? Yes, and that's pretty cool, but God forbid people ever try to earn anything in this game if you don't want to pay money.
Thankfully, survivors have most meta perks available on free characters, and strong killers like nurse are free, but if you want the most optimal build for your killers, you will have to buy multiple, often licensed DLCs to stay competitive. Don't want to spend the money? Wait for 6 months for those perks to pop up in the shrine.
The free track for this game is unrealistic, and getting worse all the time.
Comments
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The devs, like any other company, are ######### as hell when we talk about earning things of the Game.
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I would really like some newer player's perspectives on this.
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Two of the three best Killers in the game (Nurse and Huntress) are free, and the third can be accessed with shards (Spirit).
The majority of meta perks on both sides are available on free characters (Meg, Claudette, Jake, Bill, David, Hillbilly, Nurse, etc).
The majority of Chapters don't contain game changing perks or Killers, and are there to provide variety. Licensed Chapters are paid only for legal reasons, there's nothing to be done there.
This game is far from Pay2Win. Sure it costs a lot of money to get every bit of content in the game, but the universally agreed best Killers and Perks are available for free.
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Pretty much everything you can buy is optional for the core gameplay though.
you can very well play the game with only the base characters and perks without any problems.
in fact, the strongest killers and survivor perks are already in the base game: Nurse, Adrenaline, Borrowed Time, Dead Hard, Iron Will just to name a few.
Also Huntress and (the current version of) Wraith are damn powerful as well.
thus game is a pretty good example for NOT being pay2win but offering many great options with DLC.
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Tbh, devs should rework shrine of secrets to make all perks available there at the same time and decrease the cost of perks by like 500-1000 iri shards.
That would mean only characters will remain Pay2Play, but perks would be available for free for everyone.
But obviously BHVR wouldn't do that, because hurr hurr we need to squeeze as much money as possible before game collapses
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Hi, I am newer to the game even though I have enjoyed watching the game since beta. I agree with your statement whole heartedly as I just got my first survivor through iridescent shards. I can understand why they don't make the content easily unlockable and I feel like that is fine because it takes time and money to make the content, however the iridescent shards for a perk compared to killer/survivor is absurd.
The problem with perks compared to survivors and killers is a perk from the shrine of secrets is 2000 shards and a survivor is 9000. To put this into perspective I could get 5 perks from the shrine of secrets for 8000 while if I buy a survivor I only get 3 and at a higher value. I can understand that new survivors are an entirely new character, but I would like to mention, why would I for 3000 shards more, go for a survivor? Killer is somewhat understandable as they have a unique power, but their value is on the higher side too.
I think they should make killers and survivors 6500 shards rather than 9000 so there is a purpose to getting a survivor/killer rather then just buying from the shrine of secrets.
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All of the DLCs are on sale for 50% off a majority of the time and theres also bundles now that you can buy and save even more.
If money is a problem for you, you could also check g2a for either discounted gift cards or DLC codes as well. Just be sure to buy from highly rated sellers like you would on eBay, etc.
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I agree with everything in this post as a veteran who owns every DLC except one thing.
The game isn't P2W.
The strongest character (nurse) is base-game. The second strongest (spirit) can be bought with shards, and her best perk is from nurse. Characters are the ones who shake up the gameplay loop and they are in no way pay to win.
The perks on the other hand, are in a desperate need of a revamp. You get too little shards and the shrine offers too little variety for any real consistent use.
Your proposals wouldn't change anything for me but I'm entirely happy if they come to dbd. New players need every helping hand they can damn well get
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They should make an ultimate edition of this game where it includes all the DLC
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The fact BHVR allows players to obtain DLC content for play time is outside the norm. I'm sure it's justified through selling skins for those characters but I digress. The rate of shards earn seems reasonable to me. As long as you don't spend them on the shrine or shop, a single devotion level will be enough for a DLC.
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yep
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I started playing this game a couple of months ago and I was pretty annoyed that there is a lot of investment (in both time and money) to get perks more so that new characters. That's the bit that really should be addressed IMO.
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What about the rank rewards? Now only did we not get them, but they weren't even going to give us shards along with them either which I think is just a bad decision, morally at least. It will most certainly benefit BHVR financially.
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others already said it, but I'm going to aswell.
this isn't pay to win. you don't need the DLCs to play this game at it's highest levels. and the best characters are free or getable with shards.
that said... the grind is INSANE. and something really should be done to help it.
like, getting 2 perks every bloodweb. every single one.
the bloodpoint effects of WGLF and BBQ are now base.
shards in the free track of the rift. enough for 1 character at least.
shrine of secrets with double the perks. but not random anymore, on rotation.
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Pay to win? No.
Is the grind too much? YES
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This right here ######### the GRIND. I was telling my friends ######### IT, I'd pay for blood points if they'd let me. I don't mind you know 5 dollars for a survivor and a killer. I don't play all the killers. DBD compared to like Valorant where skins is $20+ for one skin. It's not bad. A ######### knife skin can cost 35 dollars
But JESUS I don't want to spend 30+ hours on a killer I don't care about to get one stupid perk. Anyone else talk about how hard it is to earn BP as survivor you earn like half that of killers because you don't survive the whole game.
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This Right here ######### the grind. I don't mind paying 5 dollar for a survivor and a killer. But ######### me I don't want to play 30+ hours on killer just to get one stupid perk. I'd pay for blood points at this time. The game becomes so unenjoyable during the grind for that one build You're trying to make
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What I'm trying to point out here is that the insane grind is what is making this game PTW. If you don't want to invest 800 hours of your time grinding to get all the unlockable content in DBD, then GIVE US MONEY. They're using the grind to get more money out of you.
Are there sales for this game? Yes, and that's pretty cool, but God forbid people ever try to earn anything in this game if you don't want to pay money.
Thankfully, survivors have most meta perks available on free characters, and strong killers like nurse are free, but if you want the most optimal build for your killers, you will have to buy multiple, often licensed DLCs to stay competitive. Don't want to spend the money? Wait for 6 months for those perks to pop up in the shrine.
The free track for this game is unrealistic, and it's getting worse all the time.
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More ways to earn shard = More stuff will be aurelic cells.
How is this better for players? This is pretty much basic economy..
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Remove the licensed characters, would be a start.
Hear me out:
Licenses consistently have to be renewed, and especially konami and now capcom are absolutely vile when it comes to that. so a lot of money now goes into the licenses
Let the license run out and replace the licensed characters with proxies, respectively remove those that already have (better) proxies altogether.
I know lotsa people would hate it, but it'd allow for cheaper cosmetics and general better stuff.
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I am a recent player who started about three weeks ago and already have feng min, and claudette levelled up really high. I honestly dont have the money to simply invest in characters AND the battle pass. I just feel bored of some of the characters I play,obviously wanting to play other characters that cost 500 auric cells and including the cosmetics. Experiencing the game with characters like nancy or laurie would be fun but of course the characters with good perks cost something, which i understand but it gets frustrating as you move up ranks and the perks you have are nothing compared to the builds either the killer/survivors have. Auric cells would be much greatly appreciated in the free passes
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I'm going to take a different approach here, why can I not pay money to get more bloodpoints? I have all the characters unlocked but I want to get all the perks on all of my characters at p3. I am at 600 hours and I still have a long way to go.
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That's the definition of pay to win, I. E. Pay to skip the grind. At least the BP grind is universal to everyone, despite how bad it may be.
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Huntress is a top 3 killer? Hot take!
I agree with you about the survivor meta especially following the DS nerf, but most of the best killer perks are DLC: Pop, Ruin, Undying, BBQ, Thrilling Tremors, STBFL, CI, Infectious Fright, Starstruck, Devour, etc. Most of these can be unlocked with shards eventually after hundreds of hours of grinding of after months or years of waiting on the shrine, but it's still way too hard for new players.
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Hi, I'm a newer player. Just started halfway through last year, although you wouldn't guess that from my performance and understanding of the mechanics. Anymore.
This game is very much pay to win. I'm about level 50 (I only play an hour a day, sometimes less) and I have only gotten enough shards to buy four perks from the shrine if I wanted to. I've bought one thing from with shards, ever. It was Stridor (yes, I know how stupid that is). If I never spent any shards, I would only have enough to buy one character after one-and-half years.
This is an issue for me, since BHVR doesn't actually fix problems, and instead add perks for new characters. That I would have to buy with money. So that I can actually function.
I'm a Pyramid Head main. I bought PH with cells, because I love Silent Hills. Then I found out that I'm All Ears was nearly essential on him, and I couldn't exactly wait for the Shrine, so I had to buy Ghostface. Way after that I found out it's basically necessary to run either Pop or Ruin as killer, and if I wanted to run Ruin, I would need to run Undying too due to the ######### totem spawns, but Pop doesn't synergize well with Pyramid Head since his power is based around not using hooks.
So, if I want to still be in a world of hurt, but slightly less, I could buy Clown. If I want to essentially have one perk slot, but have a decent time, I would need to buy both Hag and Blight. Or I could wait four years for the Shrine to have the exact perks I need and for me to have enough shards to afford them at coincidentally the exact same time.
And that isn't even mentioning the fact that you start the game with exactly two killers that can actually function without an obscene amount of practice, those being Huntress and Wraith, neither of which are particularly powerful. Huntress just barely falls into the "viable" category, and Wraith just recently entered the "average" tier. And yes, I know that with enough practice literally any killer is viable, but lets be realistic here: what kind of sucker is gonna play Trapper for two years just to learn the ropes, getting stomped by potatoes four out of five times?
So, unless I spend an actually absurd amount of time or a slightly less painful amount of money, I'm going to be way, way, way weaker than I should be given my actual skill level. And I'm absolutely certain BHVR wants it to stay that way.
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This game has not become pay to win... Get outta here with that.
I, too, have been playing since 2016. I own every version of DBD, including Switch lol. I own all of the DLC on 2 consoles, and most of the DLC on the others.
I can survive, or 4k a match without any perks. If you've been playing since 2016, you should be able to, as well.
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You can do well with basic perks. Concept of pay 2 win is that you need to pay something to win according to its name, you can grind killers without needing to spend a dime besides buying the game.
Is it grindy though? It is. Perks you are talking about are not necessary to win, they just increase your odds, Pop is grindable.
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Pay to win isn't literally "you have to pay money to be able to win."
What it means is "you have to pay copious sums of money or be at a massive disadvantage."
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explain why BHVR give us free useless perks in the sanctuary to free killers every week? Type lol, I can pump them for free, why would I buy these perks?
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Honestly i agree with what you said, expect the shrine, the only think that they should do for the shrine, it's to not spawn perk from free character there, i think for the rest it's a fine sistem
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"you have to pay copious sums of money or be at a massive disadvantage." = you have to pay to have much more chance to win = "you have to pay money to be able to win more." = massive disadvantage = you will probably lose = lose is opposite of win = pay to not lose = Pay 2 win
Again, I will repeat myself (Which I really hate to do)
I did really well with a grinded killer (Oni) and with his and perks available to everyone (Sloppy, Nemesis, Bitter murmur and whispers) against sweat squads and I am a very casual and chill player.
You do not need to spend a single dime to be good. You need to practice and by the time you get decent you will already have enough to buy better perks because one pgtw means nothing to newbie unless he learns how to use it.
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Didn't mean to quote and I can't delete lol
Anyways this is more Play To Win if anything. You have to play a ton to get everything, which yes the grind is a lot but everyone has had to do it without shortcuts. The grind should change but it's nice that it's an even playing field and people who play more should be given more
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You can still do very well without paying a dime
For example, last night I got a 4k against red ranks and double pipped with Trapper (arguably the worst killer) with insidious, sloppy butcher, pop (you can get with shards quickly), and noed. Stopped them at 2 gens left.. I havent played Trapper in years but still did well with him. I'm not an amazing player by any means either. Everything outside of Pop is free and you can get pop (or clown) free through shards
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I think either double the perks or rotation in the shrine would improve it a lot.
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I understand that.
I've gotten at least 2 4ks against 4man SWFs, quite possibly more. I have two P1 killers and I'm going to prestige a third soon, and I do quite well as all of them.
But the issue is that BHVR pretty much never addresses the actual problems, and the only thing that they do to "fix" the issues is add perks that pretty much have to be bought with money. So clearly they know about the problems, and have an idea of how to fix them most of the time. That sounds a bit too convenient to not be deliberate to me.
I'm not disagreeing with you here, I'm just stating the facts.
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To play devil's advocate here.
The company charging for licensed content is hardly pay to win. Perks being tied to characters is a little pay to win but you aren't just buying perks you are buying game content. Expecting more from a DLC is what we should do, its should have killer + survivor + themed map at minimum.
When its just new killer/survivor with great perks then yes I'd say there is now a bit of a pay to win for good perks scenario going on.
Now the caveats here are that this game is been out for a while so a discounted base game and perhaps some of the older DLC's should be a thing by now and at least in my region it is. Integration of some older DLCs into a base game purchase would also be a good idea given the game's age.
Perhaps its time to start making older DLC perks unlocked from the beginning to lessen the new player grind.
These are improvements I think would go far.
Sadly online gaming models are built on grind, keeping players online is the idea and the way to make that happen is grind, so you're not likely to see grindy elements change much. Its why deep down I really hate this trend of making games multiplayer online dependent.
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Nah alot of the allure that brings new comers into the game is the licensed characters. As someone said it's the smash bros of horror game
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This is a great solution, and I have no idea why the base game isn't permanently on sale for $6. Same with some of the oldest DLCs. You've made your money, and now it's time to lower the base price (and maybe even lower the shard cost for these older characters). They have all of these other sources of income literally printing money for them, at least make more of the base game content more accessible to new people...
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For survivors this game is not pay to win in the slightest, one of the best builds imo: Spine Chill, Resilience, Iron Will, and Dead Hard is 100% free.
For killers yeah, all the good runnable perks are behind paywalls or through grinding. But the grind honestly isn't bad. Consider a new player starting fresh, if they are optimal with their unlocks, they can get a solid general killer build with their first few unlocks.
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Aside from the insane grind, it's pretty unfair that newer players are forced to pay $7 each for certain perks like BBQ, Decisive, Object, Thrilling, I'm all ears, Save the Best for Last, Surge, Surveillance. The shrine argument is not valid because good/fun perks from licensed killers can take anywhere from months to a year to appear on the shrine (look at the archive of previous shrines). A lot of people pick up dbd on steam for $30 to check out the cool killers from popular horror franchises (one of the main attractions of the game), only to learn that they are all locked behind a paywall. I completely understand that the devs need a constant source of revenue to keep up with the content updates, but I feel like that money can be better earned through microtransactions for killer/survivor cosmetics, by re-releasing limited cosmetics from previous tomes as well as selling good cosmetics on high-demand that people actually want to buy (Seriously, I'm not going to pay 500+ auric cells for a korean dwight skin). Also community-created skins such as the mr. puddles skin for the clown is definitely a step in the right direction.
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They just need to put them in the free rift track
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A lot of the perks you listed I would never recommend for a new killer. If you're introducing a new friend to DbD you want to get them a good build asap not perks like I'm All Ears, Surveillance, Object or Thrilling. Since Decisive is nerfed they shouldn't be wasting their money on that perk either.
Survivors have some of the best free perks in the game, they shouldn't be spending a dime if they want to play optimally. They have dead hard, sprint burst, borrowed time, unbreakable, iron will, quick and quiet, bond and spine chill all as free perks.
If they have nothing else and don't want to pay any money, the first killer they should get is Clown which you can get with shards, not paying a dime. Clown is a solid noob friendly killer and Pop is a fantastic meta perk.
Paid Survivors and Killers don't have reliable meta perks really anymore besides BBQ.
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with the difference that Nintendo can absolutely afford these things.
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You are forgetting that Hex: Ruin although free on Xbox is a DLC you have to pay for on PC (Despite buying the game on Xbox and PC). BBQ & Chili another really good perk you have to pay for. Decisive Strike which is literally one of the only perks to counter tunnelling and you have to PAY FOR IT! No it may not be P2W but it's pay to have fun, you throw $20 at the game and your chances of winning do increase without a doubt.
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Hate to break it to you but this game if something increases your chances of winning greatly and you have to pay for it then it's pay to win. Either way though that many Iridescent Shards for a ######### character is actually ridiculous it's a CHARACTER! Now I understand with the licensed killers such as Ghostface and Mike Myers it's different due to the licencing but cmon it's still a joke with characters like Clown and Hag being 9000 Iridescent Shards. Also can someone explain to me why things don't transfer across platforms like DLC? The developers claim they haven't worked a system out for it yet well I think it's so they get more money of players. The developers behind this game are DODGEY period. I mean then again it's pretty clear to me the people that make this game are worse at coding than Yandere Dev considering they can't fix hitboxes, matchmaking, animations, sound effects, pallets, tiles and even the currency is broken so it doesn't surprise me if they can't code something literally every cross platform game developer can do.
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I mean nintendo also has 12 dlc characters that you can only pay for individually or in a bundle. Exactly like DBD. And I hundred percent doubt that this company somehow put themselves in a position where they are losing money by adding a licensed character
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Pay to win is the wrong term, but the grind for in-game rewards is too steep, and seems deliberately designed to push people onto paid alternatives. BHVR needs to make money to sustain the game but, for me, the balance has swung too far in that direction. They're already using a model where some rewards (characters, skins, charms) are locked behind a paywall anyway -- why not let us get the free ones faster?
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No, base perks and killer powers are enough to win, purchasable perks are just something that offer more options and may suit specific playstyles better, but overall nothing that just hands you a win.
also cross Progression with purchases in-Game and DLC is a thing the devs have implemented. It is working for Steam and Stadia, with Switch getting added soon (the next 3 months they are aiming for). The devs are also very likely not at fault that the other platforms don’t join, it’s more likely that Microsoft and Sony don’t want it. But they are still negotiating (at least the devs confirmed they are trying to get cross progress for all platforms except for mobile)
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Yes the game is grindy but its not P2W. Just like any other online game that has been alive for awhile there is always excess content for new players to go through and they don't have to buy it all upfront. Look at any mmo. A new player will always have 100s of hours to catch up to their veteran counterparts.
I like your ideas! It would be nice to have more ways to earn small amount of shards. Maybe bhvr could release a special edition of the game where they give out enough shards for 2 or 3 characters?
Also the chapters all go on sale from time to time so that also helps new players ^^
I would personally like to see a rework to the Shrine. Instead of 2 survivor and 2 killer perks it would be nice if they showcased a character and all their perks would be available and maybe have their cosmetics on sale (could include your number 1 idea). They could alternate between survivors and killers to showcase each week. I think a rework like that would help with unlocking perks quicker and reduce the grind a tad.
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I don't have a problem with DLC prices because they often make discounts, and you're not supposed to buy everything at once anyway, so the cost is really not a real problem. Even paying full prices, with one DLC every 3 months it's a bit more than 2€/month, which is nothing for the amount of hours of entertainment the game offers.
I agree though on having more ways to earn shards. Since their rework on the second annyversary they haven't been touched anymore, the system could use an upgrade.
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