Does BHVR respect it's players?
I am at a point where I feel the developers of this game have no respect for the players. I feel like the developers don't prioritise certain things such as fixing bugs, fixing matchmaking and making the game fair they prioritise making new cosmetics and new characters. Am I the only one that feels this way?
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The biggest problem right now is the lack of communication, I'm of the belief something internal has led them to stop communication with the community as much. It still happens but not as much as it used to. Their priorities are seemingly around new content rather than fixing what's already there at times but credit where credit is due - they responded to the complaints about Trickster moderately quickly in BHVR time.
It didn't take as long as it did for Blight's POV to finally be what it should've been on release.
Also their recent tendancy of giving a tacit 'okay' to people using exploits still baffles me a bit.
Post edited by Brokenbones on19 -
Well, considering that they get ######### on most of the time, I can understand why they stop communicating (and as far as I know, they communicate in their freetime). Communication is a privilige, not a right.
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Well, considering that they unceremoniously booted out Dowsey AFTER requesting a twitch stream from him... I'd bet that, at least some of them, stopped caring a while ago...
McLean seems to be really invested in the players, as so do Almo (again, his thoughts in the balancing of the game shows that he doesn't understand DBD very well, but he seems to be concerned with players experience)...
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Oh I'm not saying we're entitled to it.
I just think that's one of the big issues at the moment and why people feel like things like there's no care about issues like the pallet/breakdown bugs. (Especially when, for some reason people are given a silent thumbs up about them)
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Still though they only responded to the Trickster issue because it was all people were talking about, every other issue gets swept under the rug as a "one off". Buffing a killer and listening to the community every once in a blue moon does not deserve respect and I don't think they should not be given credit for it because most other games manage to listen to their community why can't BHVR? Also I don't think something "internal" has happened that stops them it doesn't take much effort to read through the forums, read some tweets or watch some YouTube videos.
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Once again I feel like these are all excuses. If most big games with a decent amount of staff can communicate well with their community why can't BHVR? I mean if your telling me that you have never once doubted the intentions of the creators of this game then your honestly pulling my leg. I remember it took 4 months for the developers to fix the bug where survivors were still grunting after they died on hook.
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(IMO) They only responded to Trickster as quickly as they did because of two reasons:
- One of the developers said on a livestream it would 'take a while' before changes were made to him despite PTB and even Live feedback. This was like pouring gasoline on a flame, bad idea.
- Trickster's reception was lukewarm and they needed to draw more people into it
PTB's seem pointless at this point though, because they're previews of content rather than tests. Sometimes things are changed on PTB, sure but it's not the norm that this happens. Trickster was weak on PTB and somehow even worse on live according to some.
And when I say 'something internal' what I mean is I imagine they've had some kind of shake-up to prevent miscommunication or to stop them making promises they can't keep.
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I mean either way I feel like they don't give a ######### to some degree considering every bug I report seems to get passed as "one off" when it's happened again and again. I mean how long have they been saying they would fix matchmaking? How long did it take to "fix" hitboxes? (even though they are still broken). Like I said I think BHVR would rather have us pay more money for cosmetics and characters than fix their game. I mean I could list issues with DBD endlessly because of how ignorant BHVR are. They clearly don't care about the player base they would put more effort in if they did.
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Yeah well a couple developers listening to the community isn't really good enough for a company with 600+ people is it. Look like the other guy said we aren't entitled to communication but when nobody is communicating or even trying it looks really bad on the company.
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Yeah, that's what I think... They just topped caring and since DBD is the ONLY strong game at its genre they won't start caring again so soon...
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I actually think the hitboxes are fine as they are, it's either latency, 'aim dressing' (auto-aim) or sometimes hit validation that messes it up. The Matchmaking thing they have recently talked about, since MMR is likely coming very soon...To the fear of many, like myself.
I don't think BHVR is necessarily intentionally ignorant, but I'd levy the blame on the fact they refuse to budge on their sticking to a chapter release schedule and refusing to dedicate a chapter to actually improving the health of the game. They do midchapters here and there even though they introduce more problems - like the pallet bug and even the de-sync issue.
AND even with their content schedules, we haven't had a new map since Pyramid Head. The last year's anniversary killer. Kinda shocking. We've had map reworks sure, but it's not 'new' content it's old content remade.
All of the current remodelling/rework stuff they are doing is likely because of next-gen consoles.
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Doesn't anyone find it funny that the second I criticise the moderators on this forum they instantly remove it or edit it? It's honestly pathetic don't silence me come prove me wrong, show me that the moderators can come up with a decent excuse for the developers or admit there are issues. I can tell you that it was in no way irrelevant, I was asking no moderators to comment on this thread because I don't wanna hear their excuses but if your so quick to shut me up come defend yourselves.
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I mean hitboxes when it comes to windows and pallets. Getting hit from the other side of a wall, although amusing sometimes is not funny when your playing to win.
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They need competition because without it they just don't put in effort and they need to put in effort because that's how a game stays fun.
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Given their recent focus on accessibility, I'd have to say that they do care, imho.
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What about bug fixes? What about stuff converting from console to PC? What about matchmaking? Just because they show a little bit of attention does not mean they care.
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Id stop communiticating with this toxic community too if I was them. However the devs aren't entirely innocent. They do good work here and there..........but then there are times when I have to ask "######### were they thinking?"
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I fully agree but they shouldn't just stop listening to the community because of some bad apples.
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I agree, but I must add a bit of a stipulation about this
They only started communicating with us about progress on that feature after a developer spoke out of turn about it and controversy was started.
The features are greatly appreciated though, I'm not colourblind but I'm glad people that are have those options.
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I'm sure an attempt will be made at bug fixes on Tuesday.
They never, ever promised universal cross-progression, though they did unify all players via crossplay.
Matchmaking changes are coming, though, admittedly, the amount of time it's taking for MMR to be implemented since it's announcement is borderline ridiculous.
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Your posts, though, are rather juvenile, and I honestly do not blame anyone, dev/mod/user, that opts not to interact with you.
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I think that like any decent company BHVR respects many of its players but also has to deal with constant streams of undue hatred and relentless complaints about virtually everything that they do, or don't do. I spoke at great length about this in another thread last night ("What if a different company made this game"). BHVR, like all game companies, are for-profit. They're not charities. Their goal is to make money while providing a product that people enjoy and want to buy. They seem to have been very successful at this. They could have left it at that, but in the interest of making more money and providing more products that their audience likes, they continue to work on the game even five years later.
Do they listen to the fans? Apparently not always, or at least don't always agree with them, but they do seem to hear many of the complaints. But this game is a very complicated machine and there are a lot of forces behind the scenes. There's concept design, graphic art, texture making and modeling, marketing, promotion, all kinds of elements that effect all kinds of various aspects of the game. It's never as simple as saying "I want this" and having the developer say "you got it!" and then getting precisely what you want the next day - especially when this game has millions of players, many of whom can't even agree on whether a map is fairly balanced or not.
I do believe that there should be a liaison between the players and the developers, someone who can be trusted to hear the fans out, put up with the verbal abuse, and filter the constructive criticism from the entitled demands, and who can then report back to the developers and help them to understand where players are being caused the most frustration. Yes, I do agree with that. But the idea that they're incompetent, that they don't care, that they don't bug test the game, that they don't care about the players, etc., you guys have to realize that these same things are said in pretty much every forum for every popular game that exists. It's hyperbolic and largely untrue, and the more it's repeated the less likely the developers ARE to respect the fanbase.
The people who made this game aren't laughing at you with their feet on gilded tables made of marble and cocaine. They're human beings trying to weigh what they think is best for the overall longevity of the game and what the more reasonable fans would like to have.
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Better 4 years late than never, but somethings stuff like that has to happen before the ball gets rolling, unfortunately.
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Sometimes it seems that ghosts are running this company. It amazes me how things happen so slowly and if they happen.
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That's the best thing I have heard all day.
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Yeah, I agree on that one. I am also disappointed in some things which got changed, most prominent feature would be the HUD (especially if you look up that the UI Lead has years of experience..).
However, I remember that Almo was the one who talked a lot on the forums and everytime he got ######### on by people, sometimes completely unrelated to the topic he was responding to. And I can fully understand that at some point he is fed up with it.
Communicating =/= listening.
They do listen to the community, however, listening does not mean that they have to react ASAP. Sometimes they are fast in reacting (e.g. when people complained about the Rat Liver Changes), sometimes it takes a while.
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Moderating a game forum has nothing to do with providing answers about the game or its development. Even IF they are privy to such information, it's not their job to share it. In fact, doing so would likely cost them those jobs and potentially earn them a lawsuit.
As for cross-progression, they DID say that it's coming, and that they're working on it. This was as recently as March when I looked into the issue at the time that I was debating getting an additional copy of the game for my Switch Lite. I don't know if they ever used the word "promise" (and I would doubt that they did) but in all fairness they made it clear that it's something that we can expect at some point. It's probably a very difficult thing to implement though.
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They will respect you as long as:
You buy every skin they release.
Be a survivor main.
Waking up and ask yourself every morning: whats a killer experience?
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Yes BHVR respects its players.
In all honesty, BHVR have addressed a lot of the things that I've seen people complaining aboutd. Match making? They've tested a new matchmaker twice and I'm sure they're still working on it. Mori's? They were maybe heavy handed with it but they were problematic and they did get nerfed. Keys? They've indicated they're working on those. Decisive Strike? Changed to actually be an anti tunnel perk instead of an immunity perk. Object of Obsession? That thing's rework is on the PTB. Wraith? Significantly better now than he was. Trickster? I don't think they went far enough but they have buffed him. Various assorted perks that are/were too weak have gotten buffed. Rat Liver? They walked that back to be only a smidge worse with it and better without.
Do they still have more they need to address? Well yeah. Are they necessarily the fastest Devs in the world? Well, maybe not... but at least things do get fixed. There's another community I used to be part of where the developers royally broke something 4 years ago and they still haven't fixed it and have zero indication that they're going to.
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Do the players respect the devs would be another interesting question.
the devs are listening and it’s obvious that the game is better than people want to give it credit for. There are reasons why all the wanna-be asymmetrical horror games failed but this one succeeded.
they may be slow on many things, but they don’t really get that much appreciation when they do something great. Just as an example: colorblind mode. This was something the community was requesting heavily. They already stated last year they want to look into it but it’s not the highest priority right at that moment. Now that it was announced/brought to the game people find ways to talk it down massively. As if they implemented it within 4 weeks because of that ‚incident‘ (another example how SOME players disrespect the devs heavily).
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Yeah it's fair to criticise what the devs say and do. The 'stop asking about colourblind' fiasco is a big example as to why I think the devs are being way more tight lipped than they have been in the past. It's easier to not mention an upcoming feature rather than mention it and have people seeking out answers, in their mind I suppose.
I think people who personally seek out the devs on their platforms and harrass them are just bad or simply entitled people. I don't really agree with how some of the developers have conducted themselves (Hell, I strongly disagree with their current stance on exploits at the moment) but there's nothing personal about it
Another thing that bothers me is the consistancy of the answers we do get. When Trickster was released, everyone said he was weak and one of the responses we go was "well we won't really know for a while, it'll take a month and a half for me to look at the data" only for Trickster to get changed anyway.
One of the more frustrating examples was when Object of Obsession was labelled as not a problem because of 'statistics' which completely missed the point of why people hated it to begin with (Even Mr. Cote pointed this out).
Maybe addressing SWF is a touchy subject for the balance team, it's not my place to say but thankfully it was rectified anyway despite this response
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Oh yeah I fully agree that criticism is needed and in these cases especially necessary. The communication is something they definitely have to improve upon (and they showed they are willing to do so with the recent OoO approach).
but you can easily give constructive criticism and point out stuff that went wrong or is still going wrong without getting personal, which many in the community just don’t do.
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