The blatant key abuse NEEDS to stop.
I'm not joking when I'm saying that every second match I've had these past couple of weeks featured a survivor finding a key just to open the hatch with it. These screwed up spawn-rates are literally breaking the game in favor of survivors.
There needs to be a fix immediately along with a proper rework to this broken mechanic. You've done it to moris, now do it with keys.
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Since 8th of december and most likely far longer. Is it so hard to increase number of gens required to spawn hatch to 5 at all times.
They finally did it with mories and now with iri hatches, why are the taking so long with keys when it's so simple.
I just have to post this since it just came out and it relates to the key isses perfectly.
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All they need to do.
Keys need to take 12 seconds to open the hatch Uninterrupted.
Literally same time as a totem or chest search, Good nerf to it and will not make it Op at all
That and keys can only be found in a chest, in general,
Can no longer escape with it to play it next game,
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Keys aren't the issue, it's just the spawn rate bug.
Trust me, I want it fixed ASAP too- I miss being able to run a decent chest build on Survivor...
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Well at least 25% of my games I have a survivor who start with a key and 90% of my games survivor find a key in a chest, sometime 2. Do 4 gen, wait till one survivor dies if the game doesn't go well then find hatch and leave, wow.
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Why should we stop abusing keys when killers refuse to stop abusing tunneling, camping, and NOED. If one side gets to abuse stuff the other side should too
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This doesn't solve the fact that a hatch escape nukes the killer's emblems, or the fact that the killer has to throw the rest of the match to close the hatch, or how keys directly punish the killer for doing well.
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- None of those are an abuse by any stretch of the imagination.
- Killers are weak and those are legitimate ways to secure some semblance of progress, if done correctly.
- NOED exists. So does DS Locker, Borrowed Time, God Loops, etc.
- Survivors aren’t meant to win every single game.
- This has absolutely nothing to do with an instantaneous win for multiple members of the team at once, which is occurring far FAR too often because key spawn rates are bugged and the hatch is heavily unfair on all sides - for Killers and for Survivors.
Post edited by Judgement on9 -
- it is abuse when camping and tunneling are the only strategies used by killers along with the fact that every killer runs NOED
- killers are not nearly as weak as everyone thinks they are it is just swfs that make killer seem weak
- DS, borrowed time, and god loops don’t allow the survivor to escape when they don’t deserve unlike NOED which will give bad killers free kills when they didn’t earn it. Keys do give survivors unearned escapes but if NOED exists in its current form the keys should stay the same too since they are the survivor counterpart of NOED
- killers aren’t meant to win every game either
- NOED gives free undeserved kills to bad killers so keys should do the same for survivors. As I said you don’t give one side something unfair and leave the other side helpless
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Facats
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I'll put it this way: roughly half the time I open a chest there's a key inside and I just leave it or point it out to another survivor. I'd rather have my medkit and try to play the game. I'll use a key from time to time but I prefer to use one that I came in with as opposed to one that I found. The spawn rate is definitely bugged.
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Everyone finds their own way if countering keys the best they can. Some can get away but if they are really bothering you I suggest simply adapting your playstyle to:
Slug Everyone at one time so nobody dies, the minimum gen requirement never lowers and the hatch never spawns.
Pig is good at this and punishes gen progress. (Facemask+Knockout)
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Ever notice, when people talk about key nerfs, some Survivors come screaming in to say 'Well, Killers EXIST on the same map as us, so we should get to abuse keys!'
Ah yes, the buzzwords 'bad Killers' and 'undeserved kills'. What about the Survivor's 'Second Chance (Four Times Each) Meta?' Oh right; it's fine for Survivors to abuse MULTIPLE second-chance perks, which each can be abused by four different people in a single match, plus have keys, and maps, and a free out, but 'tunneling', 'camping' and 'NoED' are 'unfair' and 'crutch'.
Double-standard harder. Rofl.
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ITS TIME TO STOP!
...Complaining about it. Because no matter how hard you do, it won't cause it to change.
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Can you just repeat 3verythung you said with keys?
Survivors are weak and keys are a legitimate way to escape
Killers shouldn't expect to get 4 kills etc
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No, you can't, because saying survivors are weak would just be a massive ######### lie lol.
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Stop with the buts and ifs. It solves nothing. One problem at a time.
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who cares? the fact is that mori's were just nuked, iri head is being nuked, survivors are being BUFFED again and again and again. killers are loosing functionality and survivors are gaining functionality and it is further making things bad. now here is a fun fact when mori's were nuked keys were going the be worked out "in an inspirational way" till then they are going to be used as they are. now 6-7 months later it's getting a minor edit that does nothing to change the status quo. it's as if it's the first time mori's were nuked before and keys were to be reworked... they are hoping people will forget about keys and making this purely a one sided game. fact is if you have 10000 people and the 2000 players that are killers leave the 8000 players that are survivors will never get a game till they go to killer and find out how bad it is for killers and THEY leave too.
The empty promises... the quick nerfs for killers and taking 2 years to make changes to a perk that was broken upon changes... what do you think? people are upset, people are tired of loosing functionality because the other side cries "it's too tough!"
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You can't abuse keys. You not liking something doesn't mean it's being abused.
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Just to clarify your saying that those survivors are abusing keys by doing 5 gens and hatch escaping instead of exit gate right?
Surely your not saying that ita after killing one or more survivors that a survivor is using a key, becuaee that would mean your over powered survivors are dieing to even use the key and such an overpowered character wouldn't have to worry about dieing right?
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It'll probably be fixed Soon™.
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I'm saying that anyone who says survivors are weak is either a complete idiot or is lying to your face.
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keys are supposed to be a rare item yet they are almost as abundant as a brown medkit is if not more so. I've seen TWO purple keys found in a match where no extra chests were added, and the person serching did not have ANYTHING that allowed more chance (pluderer's etc) to find something good OR even a second search. just straight up two searches in two chests got purple keys. there is something that changed since the perk Hoarder was added and then changed that made keys more prevalent. the abuse is not that they are used but there is no counter to them and nothing has been done in 6-7 months since it was announced they would make changes! this is the problem people have and why it is seen as abuse.
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Only find keys in a chest? The opposite, keys should NEVER spawn in chests. It's the most stupid thing, you are making sure the survivors don't do the gens... when they suddenly escape because one of them found a key in a chest and you didn't know. Keys spawning in chests prevent you from knowing they have it and looking for a way to counter it, like bringing Franklín's Demise or making sure the guy with the key stays hooked or downed (which is a really hard thing to if the survivors are playing well and using good perks. Franklin's Demise is the only thing that can consistently counter keys, but the survivors also have means of countering Franklin's Demise and stop you from taking their keys, which is really stupid, since that means you can't really counter it if survivors know what to do).
Honestly, I think they should either completely rework keys so they don't open the hatch at all (but instead serve as a wildcard to instantly open a chest and get a very rare or ultra-rare item), or making changes that allow killers to counter them, like:
Make opening the hatch taking 20 seconds (the same as exit gates), but resetting if they interrupt the action (so they can't work around it by 99'ing it).
Making they make some loud noises while trying to open it, giving the killer a chance to stop them if he walks nearby.
Making the key disappear from the game (taken by the entity) when the survivor who brought it to the trial dies.
And of course, making so the key can't be found in chests, only in the bloodweb.
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- I don't do those things or use NOED so drop the "every" and say "some or most" please
- True... nothing wrong with saying that
- Actually they do along with body-blocking which happens sometimes
- Personally I know that... But others might not fully understand what that means yet
- True... But some survivors put themselves in those situations by not leaving when a door is opened
Camping and Tunneling are killers way to say gens are to easy to do right now (If you really think about it)
All survivors should do is look at what loops lead to others (Still have to learn this myself)
Hatch shouldn't allow a hiding Claudette to either wait for all her "teammates" to die or for enough gens to be done and key out Or even keying out mid chase (Had that happen to me before)... Keys don't counter NOED finding all of the totems and cleansing them are
It's supposed to be a fair match but some thing(s) happen(ed)
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I love having an alternate way to escape, I just wish it was handled differently with stuff to balance it out (like a second objective basically, but the devs aren't gonna do that) instead of being tied to an item or dumb luck
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Right... I'm thinking the same thing
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I never get keys unless I run Plunders. Which is not to say they might not be spawning more than usual, but it could also be people's bias reinforcing their opinions.
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If a key gets found every now and then whatever but the drop rate needs to be fixed. Lately I've lost multiple games at 10 hooks with 2 gens left and 2 dead cuz the last two found a key and left through hatch. Even after I bring a cut coin offering...
The only way you can delude yourself into thinking the killer doesn't deserve the win in that scenario is by clinging onto ignorance and whataboutisms. Right now those keys are pretty much guaranteed, even with 1 chest on the whole map.
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I've seen it happen more often than not. in three chests without plunderers or other extra search or change of chances you should not get 2 purple keys! they are "very rare" 2 out of 3 chests is not very rare.
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Finding keys in a chest is not an abuse. Just like lunging through a pallet and not getting stunned. It's the game not working properly, but not the players' fault.
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I love threads where both sides resort to complete hyperbole.
It's like watching 4th graders debate.
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Excuse me I don't run NOED thank you very much
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And some survivors don't care for keys. They prefer doing all gens
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What, to you, is using a key, if using it to get out is abusing it?
That the spawn rate in chests is too high, i agree with.
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Just wanted to point out that not all killers run NOED. Just like not all survivors use keys and hatch.
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I have an interesting proposal. Now the idea would be that we would need to all agree to compromise.
Many survivor mains myself included want to address camping. Many killer mains want to address keys.
Here's my proposal, first we agree on a solution to both issues.
Then we constantly post about it. (Not spamong the forums but a thread that's constantly being bumped and maybe including a link to it in all other posts)
Thirdnand most important though is we have to agree to accept both solutions. If one of us starts arguing against one solution then someone else will argue against the other and it will devolve into what it already is instead of a united front the devs may actually listen too.
Here's my proposed fix for both issues but it will need to be tweaked I'm sure.
1 camping. The hook timer does not progress if the killer remains withing x feet of the hook unless the killer is in a chase.
2. Keys rather than lower spawn rates in chests (because this wouldn't Address bringing them in with you) I see other posts about treating opening the hatch the same as cleaning a totem with the time required being effected by perks as cleansing possibly as opening the gate.
Thoughts, both on the overall idea and on the two solutions? Remember we have to be prepared to compromise guys
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None of those things are the killer equivalent of keys. Old moris were the killer equivalent of keys. Imagine if keys got nerfed first and as a result every other game you were getting killed off your first hook by an ebony mori. And when you tried to voice complaints people said they’re fine because survivors abuse gen rushing, BNP, BT, DS, etc. That’s basically what you’re doing here
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gen rushing isn't abusing it's just survivors doing their main objective.
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I know I was using it as an example because clearly none of those things are anywhere near on the level of old moris just like noed, camping and tunneling isn’t on the same level as keys
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let's be clear, key are more unfun for survivors who don't play with friends. I lost count how many time I played alone after sopme gens were done cause the 2 or 3 men premade just waited for me to die to get hatch.
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People go into matches and expect to find them and then use them because they KNOW the chances are high they will get them. this is the abuse to intentionally go in to get them and then when they don't find them some will dc and move on. they are intentionally using something to shorten the matches and make killers de-pip and go from there. I've seen people not want to finish and complain because they brought a key and the killer was keeping the gens not completed etc. as if they were supposed to just be LET out. this is abuse when they are intentionally trying to make things not as intended. sure finding a key and using it isn't abuse, but when you expect to find it and dc then that's abuse at least two times over. I'm a 50/50 as I play both side and I'll admit I'd love to find a key and use it to get out, I admit I have keys stored for use at times, but I don't complain if I don't get a key, or if i don't make it out with the key etc. I might be disapointed but after i'm done i just move on, it's a game yes.
SORRY, survivor mains wanted to address moris, killer mains wanted to address KEYS.... devs said they were looking at both and they've ALREADY dealt with moris, now you want to "ADDRESS" camping???? great way to FORGET what happened 6-7 months ago without any preamble. what's next? NOED? TUNNELING? how about no killer at all so you win every game!
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Huh? What about the breakdown exploit or the chest bug? And also it's the killer's job to kill, and you're not even taking in account about the mori nerf and camping and tunnelling is a tactics, instead of complaining about noed do the bone, you lazy main survivor. Maybe you get camped or tunneled if have a key. And if you don't want to be tunneled use ds or have a friend who has bt to save ya.
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Then they would do a last second switch if they wanted to bring a key in..
Keys in bloodwebs shouldn't be a thing at all my guy,
That's why my interaction would be better since it would be still counting towards the achievement for everyone escaping the hatch together
...Plus iff they wait till the last second to bm on EGC and then take the escape. they'd have to wait 12 seconds. giving you enough time to kill them or EGC killing them,
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To be fair, survivors complained about camping and tunneling when i started to play the game 3 years ago.
So, is this an alt-account of yours, since you can answer what he thinks abusing a key is?
As i said, i agree that keys spawn too much at the moment, but i disagree with some other points.
I doubt that survivors want to shorten the match just to make killers depip. For one, Piping and rank means nothing anyway, and most survivors care about winning and/or getting out, not if whatever the killer pips or depips.
The only reason i cant agree on the dcs is that dcs always suck, no matter if they dc because they didnt find a key, they didnt like map or killer, or because the killer tunnels and camps. Thats nothing key-specific.
But yeah, one should not play the game relaying on an item you might or might not find in a chest (while i am fine if players use plunderers, they give up a perk slot for an item they still might not get)
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See my discussion on hatch dwellers, might be similar to your argument.
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I don't think it's possible to "abuse" keys if they're being used as intended, but they are working on a change to make them weaker. Even if the first change will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING because survivors go in packs when they see someone has a key.
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Forget about keys. The devs won´t nerf them any time soon. So just switch to survivor and enjoy matches that are shorter than the survivor queue.
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soon enough there will be only the queue.
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Remove the chest bug that gives out keys too often, then make keys take 25 charges to open (5 charges to start opening and 20 charges to open the hatch)
Eroded Token is basekit on all keys.
BrokenRusted Key: 25 Charges- Dull Key: 35 Charges
- Skeleton Key: 45 Charges
Easy, survivors have to waste 20 seconds to open the hatch. Survivors can use the key to force the killer to stop whatever they are doing or else risk them opening the hatch.
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Right now you absolutely ######### can.
Key spawn rates are bugged to be the same at base as when you're running Plunderers.
If you're searching chests, you will find keys at absurd rates right now.
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