Scott on Billy's Nerf
He brings up a lot of points that Behavior never really answered.
Comments
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Yay, Scott is becoming a Forum Killer.
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His points still make a lot of sense though. I still play billy and enjoy him but his overheat needs some tuning
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i mean he definitely got overnerfed no matter how you approach it whether it was slight or major. The general consensus is he's pretty bad right now and useless compared to the other choices. All he needed was really a addon pass. Every person ive talked to said it was a overnerf including content creators.
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It's obvious they didn't watch the video
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I mean respectfully if you watched the video you'd see his points are all valid.
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He is honestly just repeating what was said when Billy got nerfed. I mean, I could care less, for me, they can remove the Overheat, I dont have any problem with it either way, the onyl time I overheated since the Nerf was, when I got matched against Rank 20s during the very first MMR-Test (which was quite common for Billy, Tofu had the same problem) and just went for long-range Chainsaws with the Steering Add Ons, trying to snipe people from across the Map.
Other than that, as long as you dont try for every Chainsaw, even if they are impossible to land, you wont overheat.
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I don't think so. Billy's nerf was one of the worst balance decisions I've ever seen. The only "OP" thing about Billy was Insta-Saw and even that is debatable.
I definitely don't think Scott is correct 100% of the time, but I agree with him on that one.
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Oh yeah I have no problem with overheat too. I just wish they would make it less punishing for newer Billy’s learning him
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he is right though.
there is absolutely zero reason why they would nerf him like that.
Add On rework? hell yeah! those were absolutely busted and we could all agree on that - but basekit nerfs? absolutely unnecessary.
the only argument that i can get behind with the overheat mechanic is that hillbillies cant stand in front of your hook with their chainsaw 99%ed and facecamp you to death anymore - but that could have easily been addressed by making his overheat work similar to Bubbas where it goes down very quickly once you either stop using the chainsaw or fully charge it.
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Oh, I watched it. But I can really play Bingo with this video.
"Devs said this and that".... Check
"Only Add Ons"....Check
"Hillbilly is still one of the strongest Killers"...Check
and more.
Like, this is a Forum Thread in videoform.
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I mean when all the information that was ever given was in a forum thread from the developers why are you shocked that its all he can do in a video??
You want him to make some numbers up or something I mean I am not really following what you expected
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he Said can someone tell him why they nerfed Billy. I know the reason why, this is not a joke it has nothing to do with devs being bad at the game or stats it was that Billy had everything for free with no downside. Example
Oni needs to collect his power to have map pressure and insta down- Billy has it from the beginning and is faster.
Myers needs to stalk people to get his instadown- Billy has it from the beginning along with getting across the map with mobility which Myers doesn’t have.
Basically the point I’m trying to make is that Billy had all of this from the beginning he didn’t need to build up his power and he had no cooldowns he could just spam his power forever so he was nerfed so other killers can be played so people won’t say why play him when I can play Billy.
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Possible but if we go by that logic why play Plague or Trickster when I could play Huntress who btw didn't get a cooldown and also kept her strongest addons.
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You could spam his power, but nearly every good Billy will tell you that you don't need to spam it to get an easy 4k as the issue wasn't his power, but rather survivors not respecting his pressure
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hes right tho
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The devs knew they ######### up with Billy and they knew if they changed huntress they would be screwed. Btw they didn’t change huntress because she only has 5 hatchets once there used she needs to reload, Billy had no limitations his power never ran out imagine if huntress had infinite ammo? To answer your other question I agree why play those 2 when huntress exists it’s because there tough to balance one buff could make them to strong huntress is balanced cause she has a windup and she’s actually fun to verse while the others are not as fun as Huntress
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Are you kidding? Oni has to collect his power because he's WAY better than Billy in his Blood Fury.
He doesn't bump into walls, he can dash and get you with his flick, he has no cooldown after his dash and he can speed it up with Topknot, has built in insta-saw since you barely have to hold the kanabo to insta down and he can get multiple survivors at once.
Following your logic, i could make the same argument for Bubba. He outclasses Myers and Ghostface by having such an easy to use and powerful insta down always available.
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Hes right but not because hes mr.streamer or famous, its because he plays the game.
I still cant comprenhend how scott, or even myself, have the same vote as that claudette player that only has self-care and does nothing...
Devs should listen to veteran people, but instead, they listen the noobs... which i also understand, they re giving money as well.
Wish the level of the players were higher in this game, and also the people of the forum having more basic knowledge of the game.
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there not comparable because even though Leatherface can down people at anytime he wants ghostface can turn his terror radius and red stain off whenever he wants and becomes the stealthiest killer. I do agree with Myers and Bubba though why would I play them if Bubba exists it’s because they didn’t touch Myers yet and his addons are still out of order he’s the last killer who needs his addons updated
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Nurse/spirit etc have their power from the beginning,and they are stronger killers than billy. If oni had his power immediately he would be busted,something that pre nerf billy WASN’T. Myers is one of the worst killers in this game,thats why no one plays him. The real reason they nerfed billy imo is that people will buy bubba with money,thats why they nerfed billy and buffed bubba at the same patch. They are so greedy,thats the only reason i can think off,they were praising him but butchered him at the same time
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Nurse and spirit have a cooldown the difference is when spirit used her power she had to wait Billy would stop sprinting and he could sprint again spirit had to wait 30 seconds to use her power again and nurse is so strong the cooldown doesn’t hold her back
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Billy has two cool downs not one,and is way weaker than nurse and spirit. They needed to add an overheat on top of his cool down.
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Was the overheat mechanic unneccesary? Clearly. But i think prenerf basekit billy would also struggle right now. The problem with current billy is that curving is not strong enough anymore. Im not an expert curver, but i think the missing addons are the problem and not the added overheat mechanic. They could have nerfed instasaw and crack billy without deleting every useful addon.
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Exactly. They could have add the overheat kept most if not all add-ons but make them not stack or slightly nerf them. Voila.
A basekit killer should be decent or slightly under power and their add-ons should make them good. Oni, Executionner & Blight all fit that. Trickster is bad but his add-ons make his stronger/slightly modify him, same goes for Twins (her power sadly push her and make her a strong slugger but that's an other issue).
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Yeah that's kind of the problem though I loved going for saws even if they seemed impossible sometimes I'd get them sometimes I wouldn't now Ill just go for saws on back revs or the tiles I know I can curve around. One of my favorite things about old Billy is that you never really needed to m1 ever, there were certainly situations were it was better to m1 but that's boring.
He cant even do drift king anymore which was the only time I used add-ons and all I got out of his change were a bunch of stacking annoyances that completely killed my love for him as a killer and I only play him for dailies now, sometimes I'll even skip his challenge.
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This may surprise you but the forums aren't exactly unique almost EVERYONE had those opinions when they changed Billy, it was a universally confusing decision.
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So wraith should get a cooldown and only be able to stay in his stealth for a certain amount of time then, he has his power at the start of the match and for free even. Just because he didn't have a resource bar to watch doesn't mean there weren't downsides to using his power. His downsides were a power that while powerful in its speed and lethality was difficult to hit comparative to most powers and is a lot more punishing to miss then just an m1.
Plus just because he "gets it for free" doesn't mean he was broken in any fashion.
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I think that it's possible that the devs didn't add overheat because they thought that Billy needed it, but instead to standardize the design of killer powers. It's occurred to me that the last killer to not have an overheat-like mechanic of any kind was Pig (or arguably Clown and Slinger), and that includes all the reworked killers.
Trickster charges up Main Event, Blight and Bubba recover Rush tokens, PH has a trail bar, rework Nurse has Blink charges, Slinger has a reload (arguable, I know, but look at the rest of this list), rework Doctor has Blast cooldown, Oni has a blood bar, rework Freddy has projection cooldown, Demo has portal cooldown, Ghost has Shroud recovery, Plague has Corrupt Purge, Legion has Frenzy duration, and Spirit has Haunting duration.
(I suppose you could argue that Wraith is an exception, but he didn't even get a full add-on pass rework. He did get buffs and a new mechanic, but he received very little changes compared to any other killer the devs have changed. He even had to share his slot with Clown, who did receive a lot of changes.)
If it's given that reloading on Slinger or Clown is comparable to a power recharge in a token system, then the last killer to be released or reworked with no charge bar of any kind was Pig. Look deeper at PH, Demo, Trickster, and Nurse. All of them having charge bars is a strange design decision. Demo's only really serves to annoy you if a survivor performs an unhook immediately after you portal away, otherwise the bar has no impact on gameplay. PH's bar doesn't actually do anything to stop him, because he only needs a sliver of charge to PotD. Main Event isn't worth it to use a lot of the time, and it feels like the ult is there to check a box off that says "has an ult/charge bar." Nurse's bar isn't much different than if they just made her fatigue last longer, but they went for a convoluted token system instead. Billy also follows this group of nearly pointless cooldowns.
Looking at this evidence, it makes sense to me that sometime around Pig's release, someone on the team decided that it would be the pinnacle of game design if every killer had either a power cooldown bar or a power spike bar in their kit. As they've made the game, that means shoving in cooldowns and power bars all over the place where they wouldn't otherwise be.
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I usually like his content but Scott is talking out of his ass there.
He only has access to one bit of info that was opened by the devs and tries to use that as a valid counter-argument. Not to say there were ulterior motives to the nerf of Hillbilly, but that video is garbage.
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So him going off the information that was made public and using that information to form an opinion is garbage interesting logic tbh.
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I'm gonna guess you didn't watch it.
Edit: no, I guess you did...sorry.
Carry on.
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No, but him deducing a falsehood with incomplete prior information is a naive fallacy at best or malicious speculation at worst.
In his argument, he says he is in accordance with the nerf of billy addons that made insta saw and crackhead billy viable, but the impact of those addons was never disclosed by Behavior. Furthermore, the statistics of Billy without those addons were never disclosed, just the average pick and kill rates of the killer on all ranks/red ranks. That info alone was not sufficient to isolate Billy's performance as a killer.
Also, I said that there were possibly ulterior motives for his nerf (possibly motivated by corporate decisions IMO). That doesn't make Scott's argument more meritable in any way tho.
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Overheat is a mostly useless mechanic that doesn't affect most good Billies. It's there because they had no other ideas for add-ons, so they created a new mechanic. It's kind of hard to think of good ideas for his add-ons without making them either too powerful or with too much of a downside.
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I didn’t say he was broken also wraiths downside is he can’t attack
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Just like Bubba got overbuffed.
And I disagree, Billy needed a punishment on zoning survivors. His movementspeed reduction was practically non-existant and he didnt need any perks or addons to get consistent 4k's in red ranks. So yes, Billy needed a nerf in his basekit too.
So what did they do wrong? A lack of variable addons. There are 2 addons that are linked to overheating, and the only good one of those 2 is a brown addon that increases the cap by 20%.
So what would I alter?
- Big Buckle instead of reducing the TR by 8 meter while overheating, making Billy undetectable(he already has 2 addons making him undetectable WITH his power, so why not without his power?)
- Black Grease, instead of it's very weird and niche use right now, instead add 5 or 10% movement speed while overheating(which would go nicely with the above Big Buckle AND current Tuned Carburettor)
- A brown addon to actually speed up the normal heat dissipation in exchange of slowing down the dissipation massively while overheating(which would improve his basekit AND gives him more use out of the above Buckle and Grease, but would be severely punishing if used improperly).
Essentially, giving Billy a playstyle that can only work if he Overheats, adding an extra layer onto Billy that he now so desperately needs. Old Billy was kinda boring, as there wasnt much mindgaming to do with him. You either reached a window in time, or you were downed. You either dropped a pallet in time, or you were downed. Right now, giving Billy players to 99 their overheat mechanic and actually give them a beneficial situation(being undetectable AND being 120/125% MS for 15 seconds is enough to hit a survivor before they can drop a pallet and gives you enough speed to close the gap before they can reach the next tile, let alone that STBFL would actually do wonders in this situation).
Essentially, I agree with the reasons of his nerf and also agree with the concept of current Billy. I dont agree with the endresult. They need to fix his cam, and give him more variety in addons to make him fun to play again.
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Man, survivors need a limit on how much they can spam shift+w around the map. There is no downside to spamming it and they get it from the start of the match for free. They also spam M1 and space way to much without any cooldowns. it really needs an overhaul.
So tired of people saying killers spam their power. SURVIVOR MAINS started that narrative with nurse expecting her to walk at 96% around the map or something?
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Pre nerf nobody used billy without the "unfair" addons. This is all you can remember him as looking at your post.
Post nerf billy is the same as pre nerf billy without addons only he can't set things up or do much thanks to the overheat and this is why nobody plays him.
Way to much effort for little payoff and requiring survivors to make massive mistakes. The animation, sound (roar and volume) and fov changes are the icing on the cake to making him miserable to play.
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"Pre nerf nobody used billy without the "unfair" addons. This is all you can remember him as looking at your post."
Wrong, I've faced plenty of Billies. Plenty of Billies who didnt use any addons at all. Some not even using any perks. If they ran perks, it was always BBQ, Bamboozle, Enduring and Spirit Fury to negate his only weaknesses.
"Post nerf billy is the same as pre nerf billy without addons only he can't set things up or do much thanks to the overheat and this is why nobody plays him."
Which is mainly false, he can do most of those things still, he just no longer can traverse the map as quick. The issue is that once he gets close to overheating, there isnt much you can do other than eat through the overheat mechanic, which is boring, or wait for the overheat mechanic to dissipate, giving you very limited choices in either using his chainsaw to gain distance, or using his chainsaw to zone people. THAT is why no one plays him. It forces people to make very hard decisions. Billy was never about setting things up. He was always about covering the map quickly and being able to shorten chases massively by using perks to block windows and spam his ability to delete pallets very quickly. Considering pallets in general have been reduced, this instantly buffs old Billy as he no longer needs to deal with those pallets and only has to care about windows instead.
"The animation, sound (roar and volume) and fov changes are the icing on the cake to making him miserable to play."
The roar is fine. Bubba always had a similar roar and no one complained. Billy had an 0 sound cues to tell survivors the difference between a revving and a running Billy. So yeah, a sound cue was needed, and a roar fits him lore-wise. Perhaps the volume needs to lower a bit on the killer side as killers tend to already increase their volume to hear people breathing and footsteps, which the roar is meant to make more difficult to hear, but it shouldnt deafen the players. The FOV makes him miserable to play. The animations are fine.
"Way to much effort for little payoff and requiring survivors to make massive mistakes."
Which is actually false, as you said, post nerf billy is the same as pre nerf billy. So there is no change in effort. The only change is that the timeframe of using his chainsaw has been massively reduced, with no way to take any advantage if you exceed that timeframe. While Bubba also no longer can infinitely rev, but he has addons that take advantage of him exceeding the timeframe. The only bonus Billy gets is that instead of 30 seconds, it will take 15 seconds to go back to 0 charges. In those 15 seconds of overheating, Billy should gain something he can use other than just being a regular m1 killer instead, at the very least addons that give him something he can actually use.
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If you face plenty of billies without addons then where are they now? Nothing has changed so surely they had no reason to quit playing him right?
You need to set up a survivor at a loop so you can get a curve hit.
The roar is grating to the ears and his sounds in general are just way to loud. why does he require a sound cue? give me a solid reason that survivors must know what a killer is doing at every single moment.
The maps have changed and many can't be played around as billy any more. There is more stuff littering the map to stop chainsaw sprints, the loops curve or have bits of junk that prevent curve chainsaws, leaving you to be a simple m1 killer for most of the match.
I watch someone on twitch who mains billy and he complains about this constantly
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Billy needs to be reviewed again. Very few of his addons feel like they add anything to the match.
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People are assuming the devs had a major thought process they worked through for the nerf. I'd be willing to bet the overheat mechanic was added because it made it easier to rework the add ons around it. It's a very stupid and unfortunate change they made to a beloved killer.
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Okay but I think you're missing something here.
Oni has much more maneuverable dash which further goes into directional lunge that's an instadown, as well as having a separate option to use his instadown much quicker that's easier to land than Billy's chainsaw (no movement loss while charging, charging is less, much more maneuverability during the short period when the lunge begins).
Myers cannot be looped via vaults while in his tier 3 and plays similar to a stealth killer in tier 1 and 2. Point still stands that his instadown is much better than hillbilly while it's active just like oni except now it's even better, with it instadowning as an extended lunge that's very easy to land (so no charge up this time). With little punishment for missing as well.
You see the problem here, you're trying to say he was two killers but better, except he wasn't. Both of the killers you mentioned have much less counterplay than Billy does when their powers are active, their powers are effectively many times superior to Hillbilly. To make up for it, they had to charge up their powers and remain in a weaker state than Billy while they don't have it. You're just wrong when you say he needed to be nerfed because he was just like two killers but better.
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Then Billy's downside is he can barely turn, and if he bumps into something he gets stunned
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Thats probably the reason I just hate it, such a boring design philosophy
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its the only info the devs gave us what else is he supposed to go on, the general community from what I saw was confusion as to why they would make the change and they even seem to contradict themselves with their own reasonings. It felt like 2 completely different people wrote those patch notes and 1 wasnt aware they were making changes to his base kit.
They said h was overperforming when he's only a little higher then most killers and around the same as killers like Myers. So I'd say its pretty fair to say its a pretty baffling decision to change his base kit.
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I mean you could say that Billy can get consistent 4ks without perks or add-ons but I'd argue most people couldn't do that some very good killer players could but they probably also do it with significantly weaker killers, bottom of the line is that if someone has more hours and practice then you they should win all the major content creators for dbd have thousands of hours in the game and as such should win the majority of their games even with handicaps.
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I just wish the overhead did something you now have a chainsaw that is so hot it cant be turned on I vote we can now swing the fire chainsaw for a down >:3
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A good survivor will sidestep,at red ranks billy was average without double engravings or instasaw. Bubba now can zone survivors way better than pre or post berf billy,so to say they nerfed billy due to zoning is an invalid information. You can’t even explain yourself why they nerfed him so we all agree here
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The maps are a HUGE nerf to billy. Try curving on new crotus pen/ironwork of misery/groaning storehouse, ITS IMPOSSIBLE. The new gideon meatplan has unbelievable numbers of pallets so your argument is again invalid
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That's exactly what I bet too
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