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Tunneling is not part of the game?
I was in a lengthy discussion in the chat with a bunch of survivors who kept telling me that tunneling is not part of the game and that I shouldn't do it. I heard a lot in my time playing DbD about tunneling, but never that it outright isn't part of the game.
I got disconnected from the server before I got a conclusive answer, so my curiosity remains piqued: is there a convincing argument of why tunneling is not part of the game, when it, as far as I'm concerned, clearly is.
Keep in mind that the question is "is not part, because...", not "shouldn't be part, because..."
Comments
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Tunneling isn't strictly "fair" for the survivor on the receiving end, but it is very much part of the game.
You're not obligated to play fair, that's your call.
6 -
Tunneling is a part of the game and sometimes the best strategy available to you. I know I will 100% do it if I have to. Survivors also will call you out for tunneling when you haven't even tunneled the entire game. Often times it's mainly survivors who get incredibly upset at mechanics or strategies that are allowed in the game. I know I for sure do not care what they say to me after the end game chat either. Tunneling and camping is apart of the game. Maybe one day more survivors will play killer at a high level to finally see that the strategies sometimes are needed in order to win. Anybody who tries to tell you otherwise is living in a fantasy land.
9 -
You can never tell, on these forums.
And I've had people in game claim they will get me banned for 'abusing exploits' like: tunneling, camping, and certain 'glitches' with powers. (Note: The 'glitches' were just using said powers at all.)
10 -
Tunneling is a slang term which historically means picking out a single Survivor and chasing them until they are dead to the exclusion of doing anything else. Many people insist on using the term incorrectly, applying it to going after the same Survivor you just hooked. Who you go after and why is entirely up to you. Even if you were to accept the Survivor's Rulebook for Killer's definition of the term, you are not beholden to following any standards they want you to accept. You have Player agency, and can decide to do whatever you want within the rules. All you have to abide by to be a good sport is:
- Don't cheat, either by hack or lag spike.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Going back to Tunneling, by either definition, it is part of the game and a tactic. Sometimes it will pay the Killer dividends, and sometimes it will cause the Killer to crash and burn. When and how to use it only comes with practice. You must be prepared to be accused of Tunneling (whether you do it or not) all the time. My advice there is to just ignore them.
6 -
Oh it sure is part of the game. But i do believe its not how the game is intended.
as it is asymetrical, it is balanced around the killer having an advantage over the survivors in a 1v1 situation, but he has to spread the damage (or hooks) (like hooking one guy, go into chase with the next, hook him, start a new chase, while the remaining 2 survivors (the one not hooked and not in a chase) have to spread their attention between unhooking and doing gens.
However, tunneling employs the 1v1 advantage the killer has to gain an advantage by reducing the number of survivors.
Its like a father playing with 4 kids. All together, they might overpower him in a rough´n´tumble, but if the father decide to change the rules and the kids have to go against him 1v1, the outcome is clear. But one is a fun game for the whole family, the other is an unsportsmanlike abuse.
The thing is that this game has no decent matchmaking, and a killer outskilled by the survivors has very few options to do anything at all.
Its a thing people would never do in a real life game, because soon they would have noone left to play with.
3 -
Survivors do everything in their power to complete their objective. If you're not doing the same then you're only sabotaging yourself, its a kill or be killed kind of game.
10 -
And I believe it is exactly as the game intended, i.e. an option (a choice). Spreading the damage out across multiple Survivors is the job of SURVIVORS. That is accomplished by Killer stuns, safe rescues, stealing chases, taking protection hits, and so on, etc. It is not the Killer's responsibility to do the Survivors' job for them. In most cases, the same person being hooked twice in a row is a situation the Survivors COULD have influenced or changed, but simply didn't try or didn't try hard enough. :) Some Killers are determined to take out one person; that is a fact. But in most cases, Killers simply go for the next closest target, whatever seems like the best option. Survivors can use that if they want to do it. More often than not, they unhook someone and vanish like Ninja leaving their already wounded peer to be the only viable target when the Killer arrives back at the hook.
7 -
Sadly as much as it can suck when it happens to you, it will always be the smartest way to slow down the gens if you get someone out of the match as early as possible.
If the devs did something about the speed at which the survivors objective can be done then it would happen a lot less. Of course you will still get the select few that do it just to troll and not as a strategy but that will happen no matter what.
2 -
had me fooled 🤣
@ OP - tunnel all you want, it’s a strategy. obviously it’s an annoying strategy for the survivor, but it’s annoying because it works. anything that is annoying to survivors in this game is annoying because it works (tunneling, slugging, camping).
2 -
People have come to misuse the term tunneling to be something its not. Tunneling is only focusing on 1 survivor through the whole course of the match, making no attempts to hit or down anyone else. Tunneling is not going after a survivor that's been unhooked recently. There are only 4 survivors in a match so if any of the other 3 don't take the killers attention away from their "weakened" teammate then they're fair game to be put back onto the hook/possibly out of the game.
4 -
I posted this in another thread. Tunneling is part of the game because it is, frankly, part of the game. The game lets you do it. People who complain about it, or complain about fairness, are "scrubs" in the technical sense:
Excerpt from the book:
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
0 -
I don't know why you didn't just say "ez" and leave.
1 -
As a solo survivor I can say I hate it when I see Bubba's camp and then tunnel. It makes for a miserable game experience esp if you get back to back games like that. I had a Wraith the other night tunnel me alone after running them around for half the game and then literally stand within 3 inches of me on the hook at the end game. I play solo survivor and fortunately for me had a great team who risked everything to get me off the hook and in a rare instance we all got out. So, in this case it didn't for him/her. But, most of the time it does work for killer mains so that is why they use it and until the devs discourage camping/tunneling it will never end. Most will use the tired argument that it is a tactic which I believe is lazy because a 6 year old can run after the same survivor like a dog with a bone and stand right next tot he hook until the game ends lol.
1 -
It's a part of the game, it's just not fun, especially hardcore tunnelling.
4 -
Doesn’t matter though does it? The wild matchmaking will bring you all sorts of experiences as a killer. From a full rank 1 SWF immediately into a brown rank lobby.
It’s not the players fault for assuming every game is going to be full sweats who are genrushing, because in many cases it’s actually true. But if you don’t come out of the gate swinging you automatically lose if you can’t identify what sort of lobby you have got.
Crossplay makes it worse. You might only know it’s a SWF far too late.
The survivor rule book is balanced around solo Q when nobody mentions how SWF is the ultimate easy mode of DBD assuming the players are not garbage. I have way too many games where 3 gens are done in 2-3 minutes.
And you are expected as a killer to ~not~ camp, tunnel, and slug, in some imaginary dream world where you have 20 minutes to go on 12 individual chases through a map like haddonfield?
I have been tunneled violently out of games on countless occasions and I never complain about it. That’s why I have a good laugh when people do.
3 -
Because I'm not that kinda guy, I don't mind sticking around and discussing something in the chat as long as it's reasonably civil.
Fun is subjective. I don't find it fun when I feel like the control of the game flow is slipping from my fingers, which it shouldn't as the so-called "power role".
2 -
Thank you guys for the well-made replies here, they're very much appreciated.
It's interesting to see the various POVs still come to the same conclusion.
1 -
I always have that problem too.
0 -
Fun may be subjective, but I've yet to see a single person that enjoyed the killer singling them out at the start of the trial and doing nothing but trying to kill them.
Tunneling is a part of the game. And it sucks. Hardcore tunneling is a part of the game. And it's stupid, loses killers the trial, and double sucks.
1 -
True, but some things can't be made in a way that is fun for both sides, especially not when it's one side pitched against the other.
As for the tunneling statement, that's a sweeping one I have to disagree with. Hardcore tunneling can lose the trial, but it can also win it, it all depends on the situation at hand. The argument that killers shouldn't tunnel, because it'll lose them the game is one made in bad faith and shouldn't be used.
2 -
Tunneling I have rules that you touch a gen instantly after unhook and/or in front me your getting tunneled. Same as I have had survivors body block for some reason whilst being injured after coming off hook.
0 -
If you're going against babies or solo's, then yes, being a nasty old hardcore tunneller wins trials. But you were going against babies and/or solo's, so...
1 -
You have no way of knowing how I played in that specific trial nor have you any way of knowing what survivors I went up against.
I don't have the patience for bad faith arguments, which this one is just as much as your sweeping statement about hardcore tunneling. You can take your one-trick pony elsewhere, I'm done discussing this any further with you.
1 -
A bodyblock after unhook usually means they have endurance protecting them from a hit.
0 -
That's the funny thing they dont always for some reason. There have been nettles but still go for protection hits when healed.
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It's a good mindgame to pull sometimes. I've done it myself. Also if you have Unbreakable, thanks to perma obsession marks they're very likely to leave you slugged.
0 -
Good for you. I happen to have a lot of experience in this game and know what works against what players
0 -
Just playing killer is a banable offense.
1 -
This is a blatant lie
0 -
Tunneling is part of the game. It is literally undenieable. If it wasn't part of the game then why are things that stop it their own perks instead of exclusively basekit things.
2 -
Tunnel to your heart's content.
This will catch up with you eventually as you move through the ranks!
0 -
I have over 3,000 hours, I think I know my way around this game, I don't need your bad faith input.
0 -
Same reply to you: I don't care for bad faith arguments or sweeping statements.
I play in red ranks both as survivor and as killer and am doing just fine the way I play.
0 -
I just got reported for tunneling lol
0 -
Yeah, that probably won't be a one-time thing.
0 -
It's part of game however doesn't make it right or fair it's basically not giving a person option to make a move unless they run ds all the time just like killers complain about dead hard or old ds as much will survivors complain about tunelling and camping both sides complains are part of game however it doesn't mean tunelling is fine or getting a distance u didn't deserve is fine
0 -
No it's totally right and fair.
this is a SURVIVAL ELIMINATION style game.
Playing these kinds of games there is always a possibility you will be taken out within a minute.
3 -
It can absolutely be circumvented though by not being the first one that gets caught and singled out. If your teammates are worth anything, since its a team game, then you have 3 chances before you're out and I think that's plenty fair. Either you leave the trial by dying to the killer or escaping through the exit gates, what does it matter aside from a few points how it happens. Just queue up for the next match and try to do better.
1 -
Just a reminder.
When you get hooked or put into dying state if no one is around to help you and you cannot help yourself then you're dead.
This is a team game so it's up to your team to decide to help you or not.
0 -
Most bad killers don't do anything BUT tunnel, so it's definitely part of the game but it's a crappy way to play and you'll never convince me it's not. I played eight games yesterday and no joke, seven killers camped and tunneled and wouldn't do anything else. I play entirely as a solo survivor and after waiting AT BEST at least five minutes to get a game, I could be done playing entirely depending on what other people choose to do. I can't dc, and killing myself on hook takes even longer now. You can play how you want but you can't exactly be surprised people aren't happy about you doing it.
1 -
Yes there is but it doesn't mean it's right thing to do this game isn't really that complicated as some of u make it seem like to the point where you need to play like ######### sorry but it's true I play both sides I main Plague and Pig two average killers and I still didn't found myself in situation where I need to hardcore tunell (minus endgame because no rules apply in endgame) I'm sorry we might disagree in opinions but neither side is victims both will complain both will discuss and both will ask for nerfs or buffs as someone who plays both sides I really have no reason to stand up for only one side if u wanna tunell do so it's your decision after all doesn't mean others has to agree with your playstyle
1 -
Survivors don't deserve special treatment it's bad enough they are boosted with their 5th free perk (comms)
Why would I go for the healthy person that hasn't been hooked the whole game when the injured person on death hook IS RIGHT THERE
1 -
That's the same logic I use, so I think you're right on this one.
0 -
Because, according to Survivors, actually killing people as the Killer is 'unfun' and it's 'unfair' if they don't get all 3 hooks (camping), plus the ability to heal between health states (Tunneling), or you don't promptly pick them up for a flashlight or pallet save from their nearby friend (slugging).
But ALSO according to survivors: Gen speeds are fine, NoED is broken, and 4 people running 4 meta perks each, plus voice comms, is 'just part of the game'. But camping, slugging, and tunneling to create pressure? OH HEEEEEL NAW! 😂
1 -
Here you go!
0 -
I can tell you're 100% killer main right away anyhow agree to disagree no intention in further discussion with someone who sees only one side of story y'all wanna make urselves victims while the truth is kill rate is much higher than survive rate and that's fine it's how it's supposed to be but y'all wouldn't be happy even if they make survivors die on first hook idk what to tell you man play and practice it's only way to learn I do just fine with killer without playing scummy if I get 2k it's a win for me because that was always a balance If I get 4k great good job but 2k was only balance and if u can't get 6 hooks during whole trial on 2 survivors you're doing something wrong
0 -
Tunneling is part of the Game and is legit, because both sides do It.
Survivors tunnel gens, Killers tunnel survivors, the Life cicle.
5 -
I've thought about this a bit and the only way that I see tunneling going away is if trying to go after just one survivor and ignoring the rest was a guaranteed way to lose.
The way I could see it working is to rework how generators work. If I was a balancing dev this is what I would do. (This is a bulk suggestion meaning that it would all have to go in, you can't cherry pick the parts you want or don't want)
- Decrease the amount of time it takes to complete a generator by 10 seconds.
- Remove all generator regression perks
- Make corrupt intervention base kit
- Make Thanatophobia base kit, increase Survivors' Repairing speed penalty to 10 percent for each person injured.(and remove effects on other actions, such as cleansing /sabo)
- Kicking a generator causes an automatic 5 percent regression on that generator
---
What's the reasoning behind these changes. Basically this, with these changes. If you camp or tunnel the generators will get done so quickly that'll it'll be a guaranteed loss. It becomes much more important to spread damage as 3 healthy survivors will blow away generators so quickly that tunneling/ camping will cost you the game. Inversely if you do spread damage than you'll have more time to get generators done and as killer you can run chase perks instead of generator regression perks. Make the game more chase focused and less focused on tunneling/camping.
0 -
You already lose and get punish by decent survivors if you camp. If you get tunnel maybe you should bring ds or hope any other decent survivor got BT ( a meta perk and must have in solo play imo) you can also body block the killer and take a hit when you unhook someone. Survivors got tons of ways to counter tunnel yet they still complain.
if you get camped it means people get free time to gen rush.
you don't need to rework the whole gen speed thing for that.
1
