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I think I was right about BT, also matchmaking
So over this last Friday and the weekend, I played DBD just about all day, and I noticed that survivors were going for the most ridiculous hook rescues. I'm talking literally in my face, no trying to sneak in for it, and just really bad saves that end up more detrimental.
The worst game I had was my first game of the day on Sunday, I was playing Wraith. 3/4 of the survivors had BT and would go for saves in plain sight, about 20-24ish meters from me. I didn't tunnel the person off hook, but it didn't even matter because everyone was just constantly going for bad unhooks.
All I did was cloak, run to the person going for the save in front of me, uncloak, and smack them.
I asked them why they did it in the end game chat and they were actually reasonable people who were nice, I was a little shocked ngl. They said that "I thought that's what the perk was for, you know to guarantee a save on a hook?" and while that is definitely true, they totally threw the game by doing that at every opportunity.
So like I said previously, before BT's buff btw, the buff to the perk would encourage bad saves against stealth killers and just bad saves in general. I think it is teaching survivors that it doesn't matter if they sneak in for a save or not, because the perk will save the person on hook not knowing that this is detrimental in most cases.
Now about matchmaking, all throughout the last 3 days I have mainly been put up against people who are around rank 8 to all the way back to 14 at its worst. I did occasionally get a few rank 18-17's, but I think it was only because of SWF groups. Keep in mind I am at rank 1 So has something changed with how we are put against survivors? Or am I just now experiencing the full brunt of the bad mmr system we have?
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It's gotten to the point that I'm not even surprised when there are two to three red ranks in a match against me.
I've been needing a lot of BP lately because I've been buying new killers, but I can barely even play Wraith anymore with the sheer amount of BT bodyblocking I'm getting. It shouldn't even be possible how bad it is.
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I'm sure you already know there is also a challenge on the current rift to save within the killer's terror radius with BT twice in one game. This is also encouraging bad plays for those who want to get it done. They'll hook trade just to accomplish it. I'm having trouble getting mine done because I try not to farm the other person.
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I agree that it's a little chaotic, but with camping and tunneling increasing exponentially in the last month or two, the change was needed and should not come as any surprise.
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I actually did not know, I haven't gotten to that challenge yet.
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It wasn't really a surprise, I did expect this, but it should at least be addressed.
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You are correct that, initially at least, it encourages unsafe saves. However, I think this is a self-correcting problem. Good Survivors will learn that you still need to attempt a safe rescue in the first place, and the Borrowed Time aspect is something there for when things go wrong, or when you have to try and make a save with a camping Killer (no way to attempt a safe rescue). When I heard about the change, I felt the same way you did, making the assumption that there will be a period of adjustment where everyone attempts to spam it and bombs the hook. Give it a week and people will have learned the error of their ways (I think).
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While that may be true, newbies still did this before the BT buff, so I am pretty unsure on this theory. We might have to wait and see, but I don't think it will sort itself out.
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As mentioned, there's a challenge that requires hook bombing.
For matchmaking, check if you've been playing at the same hours, or if you've changed crossplay settings. For me, I'm normally getting red ranks with thd occasional purple odd one out.
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Idk could be the tome challenge to unhook in the killers terror radius with bt also lol...that and there's one to get like 6 safe unhooks as well so two challenges to get unhooks will cause alot of hook bombing, I'd hold any opinions on new bt till this is a non issue, because it's not a fair representation of normal gameplay. Sorta like how everyone is playing plague, not because suddenly plague is more popular but bc she has tome challenges.
I hook dive bombed to get unhooks just because of that challenge when I normally don't.
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Old BT also had a lot of bad plays I don't see the difference with new BT.
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It just encourages it more against stealth killers.
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lol I didn't even complain in this thread, I only said that I thought I was right about something and questioned the mmr system. And are good players not allowed to complain about dbd? Literally everyone does.
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DS discourages you from chasing a recently hooked survivor and encourages you to chase the unhooked person. by doing so, it makes that killer is prompted to spread hook states on on survivor teams thus discouraging the killer from tunneling a single person out of the game(only hooking that person repetitively).
Suppose 2 people on deathhook, 1 gen remaining, and one person is hook in the basement on 2nd state. you can hook trade in the basement saving the person that was on death-hook so that you preserve 4 survivors alive as opposed to 3 survivors alive. This can be done a total of 4 times in this situation giving you ample time to complete last generator and forcing the killer to either chase a BT person in a favorable survivor loop or go through 4 additional hook states before a single player dies. BT is really good anti-tunneling perk if used correctly, but when used poorly, it gives free hook states to the killer where he progresses the game faster than you progress your objective. Its also one of those perks where its stronger the more stronger your entire team is at the chase as the cost of chasing a survivor with BT is high when survivors complete their objectively quickly while it is very low when the survivor goes down immediately/does objectively slowly.
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BT itself is just unhealthy for the game imo.
its because of exactly that mindset it creates where people feel entitled to get free unhooks with no penalty whatsoever every time they try.
i think the "unsafe hook rescue" penalty needs to be applied whenever the unhooked survivor gets hit right after being unhooked instead of only being applied when said survivor gets downed.
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I'm pretty sure Yords understands the purpose of Borrowed Time (both the current and recent version); I suspect he understands it better than you. What was the point of explaining the basics of trades to him? What he is talking about (and NOT complaining as another poster incorrectly stated) is that bad and inexperienced Survivors are not understanding the purpose of the Perk. They are literally using foolish, suicidal tactics. Myself, I'm an optimist and have faith the idiotic, misuse of the change in the Perk will self correct. He is a bit more cynical about it. He is correct, however, that time will tell.
I'm not trying to gut check you, I just don't see the point of your explaining that when it:
- Doesn't really address the problem he is speaking to...
- He obviously doesn't need a basics lesson.
What point of yours am I missing here? I'm assuming there is something?
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<laughs> Yords is good at DbD. I've played against him and can attest to that from personal experience. And for the record, I'm curious about your frame of reference for those who complain "a lot" since his venting wasn't really a complaint so much as voicing a concern about poor Survivor play. *He only benefits from them continuing to do so, so his motives are clean.
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It's the challenge to save using BT in the killer's terror radius. It's also bugged so it won't go through sometimes unless you change out the challenge/survivor so some survivors will do worse plays trying to have the challenge go through.
I really wish they'd stop putting in these challenges that encourage bad game play.
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This logic is sound, but to some degree coming and posting here about the poor play does help spread the word that perhaps Survivors shouldn't do certain things. I'm pretty direct about my beliefs. I think the new Borrowed Time is great in that it does, indeed, allow Survivors to get the benefit from it even when the Killer is undetectable. I play a lot of Spooky Myers and always felt it was very unfair that I was immune (previously) to having to face Borrowed Time.
That being said, I also have been reaping dividends since the change because of really poor Survivor play. Nothing about the Perk changed in a manner to make hook diving a good idea. Safe rescues, which don't require Borrowed Time, should still be the GOLD STANDARD. I think Yords was being nice in posting and pointing that out. I, likewise, sometimes do little PSA posts when I see something being done over and over again by Survivors which makes things too easy on me. :)
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I agree with this 100%. I hate the Rifts and Dailies that make Players choose bad play for a match.
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The new BT is fine. Helps counter killers that like to snowball off hook rescues.
If survivors are making stupid plays then that's their problem.
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They should make unhooks reward few blood points while actual safe unhooks reward a large amount of blood points. Right now players don't care for safe unhook unless it's a challenge because they get way more BP just unhooking someone even if they are immediately downed.
Also make multiple unsafe unhooks guarantee a bronze emblem in altruism. Be like how you can't get iridescent in survival if you were hooked once even if you escaped. If you're making multiple unsafe unhooks you shouldn't be able to make up for it with some heals.
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😲😲
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I was playing Wraith. 3/4 of the survivors had BT and would go for saves in plain sight, about 20-24ish meters from me
Wraith is 100% invisible outside 20m now, so it's entirely possible that those survivors never knew you were there. Feechima makes a good point about the rift challenge too.
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Yeah, but he isn't the one who introduced this into this thread. Someone went out of their way to go look at his profile to find something to dissect other than the topic this thread is about. I also abhor people seeking to use the Forum for personal attacks. To me, trying to change the subject from the topic to the poster is probably not appropriate, a type of bait. It is also a rhetorical fallacy. A better way to address this would have been for someone to start a post about what they feel are inappropriate Avatars (without naming and shaming as that is also against the rules here) and contacting Steam. Personally, I don't care about your Avatars (any of you) but I do care about the etiquette of debate and this Forum. This isn't a thread about Yord's Avatar, nor does it have anything to do with the topic.
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They already did
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I don't generally report anything. I'm just pointing out the obvious. The Mods generally review all our posts whether we report them or not. :)
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When I was uncloaked*. I did say that I cloaked and uncloaked after seeing them go up for a save.
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he is complaining that the change to borrow time makes survivors become less mindful of safe hook saves(misuse of the perk) and that he's facing rank 5-20 survivors as if it was low MMR. Perks and Killer powers are tools. The tool is only as good as its wielder chooses to use it. BT is good tool and if you use it right, it can help you. Misuse the perk and it will hurt you. Its not BT change, its how people use BT at low-level. Its kinda how hoe people say dead hard is useless perk that makes you exhausted on the floor 99% of the time but its true strength was never dodging hits, rather its dash to get to safety and its use to take risky 50/50s that can be corrected if the killer reads it or how people say sprintburst is perk that makes you walk entire game when its true strength to 99% the sprintburst and use it mid-chase or to have it ready on deadzone generators to avoid early hits. you see my point?
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This thread has been cleaned up and handled, and I will remind everyone to stay on topic in a civil and respectful manner, and avoid attacking others for their opinions, please.
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I mean I guess. I don't exactly like the new buff to BT, but it is fine and I can put up with it.
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I see what you are getting at here, but I'm not sure we are on the same page about whether or not he is actually complaining. A complaint normally infers one is the wounded party. He isn't doing that. He is venting about an unintended consequence of a misunderstanding of a rules change. If your argument is that new Borrowed Time is only as good as the person who chooses it, and that it will self correct, we agree. However, I don't think your responses talking about how to use said things really supports the point you were intending to make. That is why I had to ask what your point was in fact. Clarification is a beautiful thing. If I understand you correctly this time you are basically just saying:
"Some people suck, and we can't base how we build the Perks on the lowest common denominator."
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If you weren't cloaked, BT would work the same way now as it did before, though, so the change to the perk would do absolutely nothing to encourage that save. I don't see how this is evidence that the change is encouraging bad gameplay.
Also, if you weren't patrolling near the hook (think like a NOED + hook near gate situation) or chasing someone near the hook, you certainly would have cloaked. The fact that you were uncloaked says to me that you could have been either camping the hook or chasing someone nearby. In both cases going for a save with BT could make sense. If people are just diving the hook immediately after you walk away before you even have a chance to cloak, though, I'd expect that's because of the rift challenge. Wraith often has no TR so you have to take advantage when you can. In neither of these situations is the BT change relevant, though.
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Remember that there's a challenge to unhook a survivor twice in the same match within the killers TR so that might be an explanation too.
Also, I really think hook bombing is a much better alternative to campy stealth killers. As before, just go for the unhooker, you're even close to them since they're literally hook bombing. At the same time, being a stealth killer won't advantage campy/tunneling playstyles
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People are talking about BT buffs. I havent played thr game in one and a half years, im lost on how its encouraging bad plays cause old BT (which just gave the unhooked person endurance if they were unhooked... Maybe only in killers terror radius) and that caused some pretty cringe hook trades as is. But what were the buffs.
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The first BT was the worst offender, it worked only once, but it allowed both the rescuer and the person being unhooked have the endurance status effect. You couldn't even insta down them.
The newest version of BT (buff) lasts only 12 seconds down from 15, but it works every unhook, meaning stealth is no longer a counter.
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While there are cases where BT is necessary it also unfortunately as you experienced, encourages bad/no skill/abusive plays.
It's a thin line trying to balance between the two. Currently what we have is just completely balancing on the necessary side and completely ignoring the other as a camping/tunneling killer is deemed the larger issue of the two.
Wish we could find a more balanced medium.
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