Why do people think 4 escapes or 4 kills is normal?
An average round in this game is 2 kills and 2 escapes so why do people think they are entitled to a 4K or 4 escapes?
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It's normal to think that a game with two opposing teams have a winner and a loser, and it's easier to say who won and lost when it's 4 escapes or 4 kills, but less so when it's in between.
If half of all games are lost and half of all games are won with this 4 kill/escape disparity, then it still comes out to the 2 kill/escape ratio, so it wouldn't really contradict the thinking of 4 being normal
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What do you mean 'entitled'? The only time I hear people claim Killers are being 'entitled' is when I point out that I've killed 3 people & the hatch let the 4th get away.
At that point; the Survivors failed to do gens. I out played them. I should win because I've won, and it's not 'entitlement' to think that a random item giving Survivors a random escape because they failed to do their objective is kind of whack.
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Because if you have 4 rank 20 survivors and 1 rank 20 killer 90% of those matches will be a 4K. Swf players will get used to 3-4 man escapes and killers will get used to 3-4 kills per game. Then they start playing against good survs/killers and get upset about it.
Even though the game is balanced for 2-3 kills a game if the skill level is closely matched.
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I would not say that 2K is the most common result. If you look at all the games played, the result should be around a 2K/2E.
However, I think either 4Ks or 4 Escapes are the most common games, it is all about snowballing. Either the Killer cannot apply pressure, so the result will most likely be a 4 man escape. OR the Killer is able to apply pressure, which results in an Survivor being dead too early, which results in a 4K (you cannot really come back from an early Kill as Survivor, if there is not a huge skill gap between the Killer and Survivors).
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The hatch exists in the game and has since launch. Survivors' main objective is not to do gens; it's to escape. Doing gens is a means to an end. Escaping through the hatch is every bit as valid, and a survivor that escapes in this way is not cheating the killer out of a kill. They just completed their objective.
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How is wanting to win entitled?
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At a minimum you still need to survive the whole game until it spawns, then either find it before the killer, or bring a key a find it while it's closed. That doesn't take zero skill. Even if you're literally just sitting in a locker all game and playing for hatch, which almost no one does, you won't have been exploring the map. The killer always has the advantage over a single survivor in finding the hatch.
It's pretty ironic to call survivor mains entitled for wanting "free escapes" when they use a mechanic that has always been a part of the game to escape, but you don't seem to think it's not entitled to say that killers deserved to kill most people who escape through the hatch.
You don't need to like the hatch, but your comment is pretty much exactly what OP is talking about.
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70% of community acts like that if they don't get 4k they go to forums and rant about survivors being op if survs don't get 4 escapes (aka swf not solo) they go to whatever page is full of survivor mains to rant and ask for killers nerf it's endless circle of bs in this game everyone has equal chances to win neither side is underpowered or overpowered and neither side are the victims it's only victim's when u make urself one at the end of day this is just a game it's not nuclear science its okay to lose it's okay to win balance was always 2:2 but ppl still act like they're entitled to get 4:4 each game
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Because BHVR has never made it clear what a "win" condition is, so people make up their own.
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4k and especially everyone escaping is akin to flawless victories in fighting games. It should be relativelly rare.
It is kinda a problem that people see this as the victory condition. It just creates a very skewed idea of balance.
I wouldn't be surprised if over half the people that think this game is frustrating have this mindset. They are really doing it to themself.
Lower the expectation of what a victory is and this game becomes a lot more enjoyable. If you only see the most extreme as a victory then you can't say anything about balance cause you're not playing the same game at that point
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What you're saying is complete nonsense dude, hatch has to be in game stop pretending it's all about skills no it's not if there's no hatch I could say pattroling gates takes zero skill too because door distance is small and u can easily patroll them so what you're saying is nonsense you want that small chance last survivor has gone while speaking of skills well guess what patrolling gens takes no skills you know it's just small holding w to run from doors to doors
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I have 1200 hours in this game lmao. Every situation in your post is rare at best. Most players try, the hatch almost never spawns under slugs, and survivors almost never DC to give their teammate a chance at finding hatch. Both sides require skill to complete their objectives.
If you try hard and kill three survivors but don't stop the fourth survivor from taking the hatch, you are only entitled to the three kills you secured. You can always slug for the 4k.
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Because it's a matter of skill difference and perhaps ego. Do you think someone who just installed the game should 2k as killer vs really good survivors or that brand new survivors getting 2 escapes vs a god killer is balanced?
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Because that's not satisfying results for either side. Killers should be able to kill more than half the survivors unless they're crazy good. Survivors want to get as many teammates out as possible, and when they lose 2 of them to camping and NOED, it doesn't seem like they could have done anything about it.
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I get a nice unpredictable assortment when playing as a survivor: Sometimes they get a 4K, sometimes one person escapes, sometimes that one escapee is me, sometimes it's a balance of 2 v 2, sometimes only one person gets killed, and sometimes everyone gets away.
As far as I'm concerned 2 kills and 2 escapes is an even game. The fact that I see this and every other permutation on a regular basis tells me that the game is largely balanced and that it's fun to play regardless of the numerical outcome.
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Patrolling gates* typo sorry for that
Anyway that's delusional thinking big time just because my random survivors sucked ass doesn't mean I don't deserve a chance to escape just like because u killed 3 ppl give u right for 4th free kill everyone needs equal chances both killer and survivors has same chance of finding hatch (killer slightly more because of faster moving and priority of closing hatch) hatch is necessary keys aren't if killer found it first good job u deserved 4th kill if not too bad u got 3k and that's a win for you right there
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The killer moves faster than the survivor and can down them if they find them. They will therefore always have a better chance of finding the hatch first. You can't stop them from finding the hatch 100% of the time unless you slug for the 4k before the hatch spawns, but slugging for the 4k always works. If you're not far enough ahead to slug for the 4k and the survivor finds the hatch first, you didn't deserve a 4k.
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Yeah this post needs rework on the meaning of the word entitled...
Nobody is entitled to anything.
Everybody plays to win. That's the whole point of the game.
Survivors have to survive
And killers have to kill. Those are the objectives.
And if both sides do a good job of their objectives expect either side to win.
Also depends on what you consider entitled?
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This is an odd thing to say because in all my hours playing this game I've never run across anyone saying they are "entitled" to either. You have to earn four kills or four escapes. The DEV hope that the statistics for the totally average Player will fall around two kills or two escapes, but it is always a fluid target with a margin of error. But an average round, based on statistics and the Bell Curve, is moot when it comes to individual matches. Good Players (of both roles) regularly earn up to four kills or escapes.
As this is a PvP game the outcomes are also affected by the matchup. A average Killer pulling subpar Survivors might get that 4K. Average Survivors pulling that newbie Killer might get those four escapes. Until we actually have accurate matchmaking the statistics used to judge Dead by Daylight are really just an overall snapshot and largely useless for application beyond big picture events.
I digress. Who is it exactly that is telling you they are "entitled" to anything? As I started this response, I've never heard anyone say that and it seems an odd, disjointed thing for anyone to say. Direct quotes would be nice, none of this "people are saying" nonsense. If they are saying it, you should be able to quote them word for word and tell us who is saying this. Please clarify your original statement.
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Dude he has a point on the last 2 survivors though. Many games have I done the gens to find a claudette or a meg walking around, and sod me there they are standing on top of what looks like a hatch. So he does have a valid point on the hatch
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Nobody said anyone is entitled to anything it's a who finds it first endgame both have same chances but I see there's not point of discussion with you since ur so one sided I play both equally and I know both sides struggles very well anyhow good luck with that hatch is staying because it's necessary if not it would be removed in 5 years by now, also there's couple of things that grants you kill with no effort but let's not get there since we won't end this till morning I doubt it you will agree that that there's powerful things on both sides, survivors big bad wolfs I know sucks
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You are not entitled to the last kill because you didn't kill the last survivor. They completed their objective. You did not.
Wanting something you didn't earn because you feel you tried hard enough to deserve it is classic entitlement. That's what this post is about.
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Oh I do agree about hatch campers but we can't remove necessary game mechanic because of rank 20 Meghead can we?
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As I said delusional as hell gates pattroling literally takes no skill and survivor needs time to open gate and if u fail in that you're most likely bad killer I don't remember last time survivor escaped through doors in my killer games wait... never happened!
Also you have bigger chances of finding hatch than survivor sweetie
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In point of fact a "flawless victory" would require achieving the maximum kills/escapes, maximum Blood Points, and to earn double Pips. This is rare; I only manage it myself every now and then, particularly since the quality of my opponents has gotten better and better. Merely getting four kills or four escapes is pretty easy by comparison. BEhavior has never stated the win conditions of Dead by Daylight, so Players can only know for certain if/when they earn that flawless victory.
All that being said, the community loosely views the following as wins:
Killer Win = 3+ Kills, Killer Draw = 2 Kills, Killer Lost = 0-1 Kills.
Survivor Win = 3+ Escapes, Survivor Draw = 2 Escapes, Survivor Loss = 0-1 Escapes.
*All the other stuff, Blood Points and Pips is simply icing on the cake one way or another. If you happen to be working on a Rift or a Daily and complete that in a match, that is another way to rate a personal win. Survivors have one more way to judge a personal win, because individual Survivors can get out alive even if their team was destroyed. By community standards the Killer still won those matches, but the one that got out gets an consolation prize.
All that being said, do I agree with you that four kills or four escapes should be rare? No, not under current matchmaking. The current system all but ensures that there will be lots of them, both ways. They will average out against one another. I do, however, agree it would be a wonderful thing if matchmaking got good enough that the Utopian ideal was common in the individual match, rather than only by averaging all matches. That would result in every match being very hard fought, however, and eliminate the notion of a casual game entirely. If you are always facing your own quality, there are no half measures.
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Idk. I don't have to get a 4K to see it as a win...if everyone gets a good chunk of bp at the end of the trial the time put in is worth it even with a 1K.
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Play both sides and you'll see why I have no interest in discussing with till infinity...
Neither you're entitled to get 4th kill period you will call me entitled I will call you entitled and blah blah blah endless circle of bs
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Nope. I don't define wins in that way and most multiplayer games are influenced by luck one way or another. Look around in DBD. Hooks and map tiles spawn randomly. Maps in general are chosen randomly. Perks builds could be super strong or super weak depending on the opponent or map. There is an actual luck mechanic in the game. Bear traps are still RNG based even after the change to make them more consistent. Chest item drops are random. Many maps have random exit gate spawns. Survivor spawns are random and generator spawns are mostly random. Etc. If you are opposed to luck having any influence on the outcome of a match DBD is not and will probably never be that game.
The survivor that escaped probably tried just as hard as you did. Both sides only deserve what they earn themselves. If the last survivor escapes through the hatch, yes, they deserved the hatch escape. If the killer kills them instead, the killer also deserved that kill.
I would recommend playing survivor more. It will help you see both sides.
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Sorry can't help you there practice more maybe instead fuming on forums about survivors being big evil wolfs who makes killers life a hell I almost feel bad for playing survivor sometimes because I'm playing such a opreessive disgusting side
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i hate that people talk about "winning" and "losing" in this game, like playing esports dbd huh?
a 4kill/4escape should be rare and only happen because of extremly good gameplay on killer/survivor side. like the emblems. iridescent is the best performance, which should not be easy to get in my opinion. started playing back in 2016 i kinda miss the old pip system with the points, bc it felt more relaxing, you play good, you get a lot of points, you pip - not all that talk about winning, losing and so on....🤷
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Due to how much of an affect snowballing has in this game, i'd say that 4k and 4e are actually far more common than 2k/2e games. However, the idea is, if you take all of those games and add them all up and calculate the average. It should even out to around 2k/2e, in theory anyway if they do their job balancing.
Post edited by Reinami on1 -
I thought a flawless victory was 4k 0 gens merciless killer? That just me?
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Reading this thread you can see exactly what OP is talking about. All these comments about "winning" makes no sense. A comment was made about BHVR not ever saying what is a win and what is a loss, that comment makes a lot of sense.
Why is a 4k/4e considered a win? The player base decided that not BHVR. As a survivor main I don't like the concept of hatch but understand why it exist in the game. You have killers like Billy and others who are already faster than survivors with abilities to move even faster. What is a survivor suppose to do in that situation?
On the survivor side you get a 4e by hatch using a key, where's the fun in that? The objectives weren't even completed.
When I play killer I'm fine with a 2k because both sides had fun and it's a 50/50 situation with "winners" on both sides. At least that's how I look at it.
The 4k/4e ideology is an entitled one, it just is. Anyone trying to defend it is going to have a hard time doing so.
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Because 2-2 is in statistic. The balance is a illusion because it cover a turth , 4 survivors who play in a voice chat channel will get highest chance to escape all. And the same time , single survivor player get the highest chance to die in game. That is the 2-2 come from. So for team players they think 4 escape is normal and when killer face 4 single survivor without voice chat , they feel 4 kills normal and ez. The devs always buff killer because they get the feedback from killer who play not good or against team. And then they get a 2-2 statistic , but for single survivor they dead badly and totally.
Think on thing , why killers likes camp and focus ? Or why killers need to camp and focus? Because they face 4 single survivors every round? Really? I don't think so. They camp and focus because they feel the pressure in game. So the pressure from who? EZ
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Yes! I struggle against red rank SWF :/ but if they are solo players mixed with purple I do alright.
if I am against those kind of players one or two kills I am happy with as long as I get blood points. Try to do my best to get everyone hooked at least once even twice.
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It's definitely not uncommon.
DBD is snowbally and if the killer cannot exert map pressure or the survivors cannot disrupt his momentum, the game can easily derail to one side or the other. The mindset of the community regarding catch-up mechanics is also not kind, along with their somewhat unappealing execution. This is as much of a community problem as it is a development one.
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I prefer to say 3 kills is a win and 4 is a curb-stomping. Same as survivor, 3 escapes is a win (or a pip). 2 of either is a draw and 1 on either is a loss. That's how I've always seen it.
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Actually, most survivors seem to think they win if they escape, which makes no sense.
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I truly wish the norm was 2 people escape 2 people die. I’d feel much less stressed out on both sides
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Nah obviously not man.
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