Killers, let's have a chat. Would ya?
As i said other times here, i play killer too... mostly killer than survivor, but when i play this last role, i often face killers who say in chat: "You toxic tryhards... why the genrush? Can you do something different than just pressing M1?". It happens many times. End of game and in chat you meet an angry person who says the magic words: "you toxic genrushers". A part giving a new meaning to the word "toxic", is the "genrush" survivors fault? The game has one simple rule: "complete 5 generators in order to escape the trial and the killer must stop you to do so". What am i supposed to do in order to avoid the genrush based on your logic? Wandering around random, organizing parties with my teammates, doing absolutely nothing but giving you all the time necessary to hook every single one of us? Every time i hear this excuse, i cry out laughing. If i was able to "genrush" you, is because you gave me all the time to do it. Ez. So who's the fault? Me? I'm playing survivor, my job is do gens, juke you a couple of times and escape. Period. Your job is stopping me. Just do your job and if you wasn't able to do it, just say "gg wp" and move on!
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I don't know, I never complain about the gen rush in post game chat. Actually I barely talk in post-game chat nowadays. I only complain if someone was being extremely toxic, but that is about it.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on6 -
Complaining about gen rush is like complaining about a killer slugging. Both are necessary to win in high ranks
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Its not genrush if you don't use prove thyself, toolboxes and/or you choose to do a gen instead of a save while killing your teammate in the process.
Its the same as tunneling and camping, people just using these terms without second thought and blame their loss on
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Are you leaving teammates to hang whilst completing all gens in 3 minutes and leaving?
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No. Usually in these type of games, the killer is able to down at least a couple before the third gen is complete. One game, for example, i was facing a P3 Legion, who lost 3 generators in a couple of chases. Of course he is not doing his job, that isn't only "killing" survivors but also deviate them from doing gens. And then i read these excuse: "you genrushers!". Lmao. What am i supposed to do? XD
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This is the response, especially calling out tunneling as used incorrectly often.
If you are ignoring teammates and letting them die unnecessarily then the survivor is showing a tunnel vision of sorts. If the killer is ignoring logical choices to just hunt down and get rid of one particular survivor then that is tunneling. But terms get thrown around all the time without people really understanding what they mean I feel.
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I'm gonna be honest even when I am genrushed the most I get is a small bit annoyed. Granted I've not been genrushed that many times. I could probably count how many times it's happened on my hands. But the few times it has happened the survivors have been quite toxic. Y'know doing what survivors normally do teabag at gates, clicky clicky, vaulty a window or pallet until you come over to watch the former two but thats not that bad I can deal with that but what really grinds my gears is when they go out of their way to berate me (I hope I spelled that right). I play on xbox right so there are very few people who can complain to me in my matches and when they can they normally don't but they few times they did it was just insults and a couple slurs. Yeah they got punished but still It upsets me they genrushed me, teabagged at gate, clicked at me, they went out of their way to throw insults and slurs at me.The first thing the main offender said to me was "God you're a bad Doctor git gud scrub. Then he got angry and started throwing insults. Why you may ask. I SAID AND I QUOTE "whatever you say man Gg" And apparently this little line needed to be addressed with insults and slurs.
Sorry I got off-topic anyway all that that means is that the few times it's happened I have not really cared but tbf I am just now getting into purples so take that as you will.
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No sorry bro, i understand you quite a lot. I dunno why some people need to teabag and stuff like that. I notice that happens mostly in SWF games. I've never seen a survivor teabag or click when they play solo.
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I teabagged solo before and then a michael myers chased me the whole round.
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I'm on switch so I don't have chat lol
Gen Rush from a SWF is rare, especially at lower-mid ranks (20-11). Occasionally you'll find surf accounts but it happens. But purple tool boxes with BNP and Prove Thyself don't happen and these are Gen rushers.
Gen Rush is more of killer not able to apply pressure to survivors. What else are you to do than sit on a gen for 80s? You can do bones (I love Inner Strength + Small Game lol) but those are harder to find than gens.
With that being said, killers are forced to run certain perks to slow down the game. Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, Sloppy + Thano, Thrilling Tremors, Oppression + PGTW are all great perks to use. These are meta for a good reason.
I played against a Plague that completely slowed the game down that we had also no choice. Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, Undying Light and Thano. By the time Corrupt Intervention was up, they had some Undying stacks and infected the generators (Thano stacks). When it came down to the last gen (with ruin gone) it took so long that they were able to one shot us down since we weren't cleansing
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I remember seeing a lot at low ranks. I had asked a person why they do this and they said "I saw some red rank do it so I thought I was supposed to as well" I feel like that was just him but I like to think the only reason low ranks do it is because they're confused and it makes me feel better about it
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I don't accuse anyone of "genrush" in pgc because it sounds kinda sad and salty but sometimes one of the survivors will start having a go at another one about it especially if people were left to go into struggle or everyone dies anyway despite getting the gens done in 4 minutes. Then I just enjoy the show without participating
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Well, hopefully you're not predropping pallets and holding W, that's easy confused with genrushing because it has equally little counterplay and usually goes hand-in-hand. But mostly it's just the fact that two years ago the average length of a trial was about 15 minutes and now it's around 7-8.
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Yeah I think that this is the exact reason this "gen rush" is being thrown out there so much. Also the fact survivors are spreading out instead of group hitting and players and some of the roster struggle with that. For instance I have been playing Trapper last 2 days running out his offerings to prestige him to 3 and his add-on are pretty low all I have are brown bags its taking a while to set up for sure. The bloodweb was ######### as well four best perks Brutal, DL, Agitation, BBQ. It's still been fun though and I think I have done well but on the larger maps it takes so long to collect your traps and with survivors in 4 places at once rough start. I understand they are not gen rushing though they just playing they game, if I had corrupt, bigger bag, I'm sure I would have killed the last 2 that game.
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Well, after 4300+ hours i think i know what i'm doing. I prefer windows than pallets. For the rest, we are 4 survivors on the map, right? One is me on a gen, another is on a chase, and the other two i suppose are doing one gen together or one each. If the chase is longer than 80 seconds then 3 generators pops up in 80 or more seconds. Right? No rocket science here, but yes... i stick on gen if killers let me do it. If a teammate is on first hook, i'm not running right away for the save. It depend on the percentage of gen completion. If i'm more than 60%/70% i let them wait a bit. Usually another teammate go for the save. Is better to have done 3 generators as fast as possible, then just one... don't you think? If i see that the killer is taking too long in a chase, i stick on the generator. You can bet on it.
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Your misunderstanding the direction of their anger and blame. They are not angry at you for doing gens as that's your objective and what you should be doing, they are angry at the devs for allowing the gens to be able to be completed that fast.
Also I wouldn't be so quick to say that "if the gens were completed fast the killer was just bad at pressuring." While that can be true, it does not mean it is always true. Against good survivors unless you are on a specific killer or got lucky on map selection you are losing those gens fast regardless of what you do. The average killer does not have the tools available to properly pressure the map enough to slow gens down adequately against "good" survivors. Keep in mind this is good survivors I'm talking about, not average matches. "Gens going fast" is also subjective so our idea of "fast" could be quite different from mine.
I think you're looking at this whole thing with the wrong perspective in other words. You're focusing too much on who's blaming who instead of the actual situation.
Post edited by Blueberry on6 -
While i can agree with you with some statements you said and for some situations you described, nah... i can assure you that most of them are just angry and cannot accept the fact that they could do a better job. Proof of this is that in chat they start insulting with the excuse of the genrush. I will post some screenshot, censoring the names of the players of course, just to have an idea.
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They weren't able to play well and win and are simply frustrated. They could be lower ranks and heard gen rush off some content creator. And who knows what else they could have brought a weak killer on a strong survivor map. But there will be salty killers who are losers. Even if they bring a strong one with good perks and add-ons.
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‘Killers’ complain about ‘gen rush’, ‘survivors’ complain about tunneling, aka ‘kill rush’.
Both terms just describe the optimal, focused play style for each side.
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LMAO XD
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A lot of killers (and survivors) are brought into this game watching -certain- content creators. These content creators make excuses every time they get outplayed, the players that watch them almost universally do this too, and one look at their chat corroborates it. I've questioned plays by big streamers before when I KNOW they misplayed and their entire chat would jump down my throat and call me a troll ____ main.
They like to be victims and have something to complain about, they aren't actually interested in improving from losses.
Of course there's also players that just aren't used to playing Asyms or games where they are on their own and don't know how to cope with the loss being thier fault.
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To the OP: It doesn't seem like you have much experience in the game if you're speaking like you do. And I say that because gen speeds in many scenarios has nothing to do with the survivor's skill let alone the killer's; it's based on RNG. The map plays a huge part, as well as the survivor spawns. I literally just had a game as Freddy on Gas Haven, a very survivor-sided map, and I was using Discordance. Not even ten seconds into the game two generators were activated by the perk, indicating a duo duo spawn. As Freddy I could somewhat manage that, but many other killers are too weak to in terms of mobility and/or lethality. By the time I get across the map to even get to one of the two generators, one is already half way done and they both would equally have the same progress. I initiate chase with one of the four survivors doing generators. I'm going to lose at least one generator by the time I end chase and there's nothing I can do about it. If the third survivor is smart they were sitting on the generator while I was chasing the fourth survivor. That has nothing to do with skill of me as killer nor them as survivor; it's purely RNG. That scenario can apply to many maps in this game like Groaning Storehouse, Sanctum of Wrath, Mother's Dwelling/Temple of Purgation, etc.
It's one thing to justify genrushing and simply saying you're doing your objectives as survivor, which is true. But it's another to act like you're better than the killer inherently because you were able to do so. Holding M1 on a generator does not require skill, so stop gassing yourself up. You talk about others being childish but here you are getting an ego because you held M1 on a horror-themed action game.
I've also personally have almost never had a killer complain about genrushing to me in end game chat. The last time that happened to me was when I was playing in a swf in green ranks when I was relatively new and a killer facecamped one of my friends because we did two generators in a relatively short period of time. Stuff like that hasn't happened since.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on2 -
I would never consider Tunneling the always optimal playstyle for killer imo.
That said there are situations where you'd have to be braindead not to go for the recently unhooked, injured Claudette sitting on a gen in front of your face. In that situation if they get salty post game I don't even hear them out. That's just bad gameplay.
I have a personal rule about never hooking a survivor twice in a row as I don't think it makes for a fun/dynamic match. Some survivors pick up on this sometimes and get cocky with it and try to abuse my goodwill so I slug them and continue on.
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Yeah, it always confuses me. I'm not sure what killers expect survivors to do. And usually when you get called out for a "gen rush" the killer's build is something like Iron Maiden/Dead Man's Switch/Thanat/BBQ at red ranks. Like...not sure what you thought would happen.
Even if you get into leaving teammates on the hook/slugged territory, sometimes that's the best play for survivors. And really, if the killer can't at least make *something* out of free hook states, that's on them as well.
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That's the thing. Getting mad at survivors for doing their objective when you aren't giving them any opportunities for other playstyles is bizarre. What do you want them to do? Run alongside you while you chase someone else and give you free map pressure?
I get being mad at a 3-4- man swf all with toolboxes+prove thyself. That ######### is mad dumb and basically makes everyone spend more time in the lobby then game.
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There are way too many maps on this game that are horribly survivor-sided where it just makes the game easy mode for survivors. If survivors want generators done and they are decent, you are going to have a hard time unless you're a A/S tier killer.
Sanctum of Wrath, Fractured Cowshed, Groaning Storehouse, Mother's Dwelling, Temple of Purgation, Gas Haven...the list goes on.
There are so very few killer-sided maps in this game in comparison. Killers are playing in a survivor's world.
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The only time I complain about a 4E or "gen rush" when I'm playing killer is when they play super efficient and the game is over in under 6 minutes. Like how is it fun to send me to Haddonfield with three BNPs on Commodious tool boxes and extra charge add-ons pound out three gens before I can get one down then have the exit gates open before a second survivor can be found? If I'm just playing poorly or picked a killer I don't do particularly well with that's one thing but when a SWF will go out of their way to make the game as short as possible and nobody leaves the trial with more than 12,000 BP it's a boring waste if a game. I don't care if I get the 4k as long as it's a battle to the end of the game, I'd rather have 8 hooks and 4 escapes in 10 minutes then 2 hooks and 4 escapes in 5.
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There's a lot of maps that are awful for killer but I think a lot of killers are just too happy go lucky with their chases. You SHOULD be defending a third or half of the map that has 3-4 gens on it and not getting baited to run around the whole map.
They don't have a plan, they just run from chase to chase. All over the map, leaving gens undefended and allowing the survivors to split up.
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Yes you're right, you aren't doing anything wrong. Just doing your best as you should.
That's why survivors need to accept that tunneling / camping / slugging is exactly the same. What is killer supposed to do, not kill the easiest to chase & kill person and insted chase the healthy or good loopers, playing sub-optimally on purpose. It's the same thing as survivor just walking around doing nothing so that killer doesn't call them genrushers which is dumb.
It's your job as survivors to help each other and prevent strategies like that from working in killer's favor. If you can't do that, just say gg wp and move on insted of shaming killer for beating you.
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Yea don't get me wrong, there are some errors in killer's playstyles definitely and there are strategies the killers can use to win a game. But if the survivors are decent and they want the generators done, they will get the generators done unless the player is exceptionally good, the rng is in the killer's favour, and/or they're using a strong killer.
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I can understand getting tilted at the 4 toolbox BNP thing. Even then, I welcome the challenge there. I play tournaments so I'm used to ultra-sweat 4 man comms. And the teams that are bringing that stuff in pubs usually have no experience against a tournament killer who is actually practiced at camping/tunneling and protecting a 3 or 4 gen. So it's kind of fun to see if they know how to coordinate saves/unhooks, take chases to the correct areas, and actually communicate effectively.
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I consider a good team a challenge but stuff like BNPs or Stypics to artificially lengthen chases past your skill barrier to be less of a challenge and more blatantly unfair. Same with Micheals toombstone piece just deleting a player.
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Your goal is finish generators, so do that lol. But my job is stop you and i will do that.
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Did i said in my post "I'm the best because i can hold M1 for 80 seconds?". I don't think so. Let me read it again... mmmm... nope. I didn't said that. Can you please elaborate where, in your opinion, i state that "i'm inflating my ego because i'm good at pressing M1 for 80 seconds"? It doesn't seem like i have much experience. Well, 4300+ hours aren't enough for you? Ok, i will tell you when i get to 6000.
I'm not saying that the person to the other side is "childish". All i'm saying is that "the excuse" they are using IS "childish"... and i'm sorry for your opinion, but yes... it is "childish".
I will post the screenshots when i will face another one... and... nope again. They aren't green at all. I'm talking about only Red Rank killers here.
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Try dodging those lobbies when they get too much toolboxes etc. They're probably SWF and against them, there isn't much you can do, apart playing really... really dirty and sweaty.
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I dodge lobbies a lot, for some reason in my area in the evening it's, Key, key, TTV, TTV, key, 4 flashies, key, key, flashies, and eventually I want to actually play a game so I'll suffer through a three toolbox match. I despise Keys, TTVs, and clicky clickers more than the "gen rush" squads lol
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Some killers chase a survivor for like 2 minutes and blame gen speeds.
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If i was able to "genrush" you, is because you gave me all the time to do it. Ez.
Sounds like you're making it an issue of skill here, implying the killer isn't doing well if they "gave you all the time" to do generators. In general you're being accusatory and blaming them when there are a number of situations where RNG can ######### you over heavily and there is nothing within their power that they can do unless they're Blight/Spirit with good add ons/Nurse. Someone with your amount of hours should know that. Try playing a killer like pig or trapper on Groaning Store House without Corrupt Intervention and you have survivors with two duo spawns across the map and let me know how capable you are of preventing those generators from getting done. You're going to lose minimum two generators before the game is even five minutes in.
Obviously doing objectives as survivor is not toxic and you're aware of that, but as another user said, I don't think you're cognisant of the core subject of the complaints they're making.
You know what the irony is though, people who complain like that I'd reckon are more prone to bringing ruin, which is encouraging people to sit on generators.
Also I'm not accusing you of lying. I'm simply saying I don't relate to your experience.
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we won't complain about genrush if you don't complain about noed.
fair?
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I play both but think it comes from the cycle of both sides doing it and of course the people behind it. One side will say try hard and the other will say the same. One person will complain about gen rush and then killer brings noed and then survivors complain about noed so then survivors will focus on totems and gens respectively and still get the job done and then killer may not like that so starts slugging/ camping. Although gen rushing is a thing and with coordinated 4man there isn’t much you can do as killer but most of the time you aren’t going against those. Both sides complain about the similar stuff and feed into each other doing the things they don’t like. I agree with your sentiment and do exactly that and just say gg and move on but others don’t do that and will take it upon themselves to make the next match miserable for survivors or vice versa which is where I think personality plays a part in the game play. You can’t control what someone complains about as valid or invalid as it may be so it’s good to sometimes just leave or maybe explaining to them what may have happened on their end. May not always work but it’s nice to try to explain to someone and they are willing to listen or come to middle ground.
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I think this is a very good point. There's also a "celebrity" fandom aspect, they won't want their favourite player to have messed up, just as fans of sports teams aren't unbiased about their own team's defects. This would naturally breed excuse making which then filters through to their play.
Playing both sides a good amount is the best way to fully understand what happened in situations where a one side main player might find an excuse.
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You can't fault survivors for doing the gens fast. That's their job and my job is to try and stop them.
Sometimes I feel unequipped to deal against stronger players but how exactly would you tweak the game so that survivors roughly have the same escape rate all across the board? Many people lament how hard it is to kill survivors in high level play, but make it harder on the survivors based on this data and lower rank survivors will more often that not horribly die without being close to escaping.
DBD's a frustrating game for sure, but taking it out on players for trying to be efficient is not healthy or good to anyone. Things could be better for sure, but until then, let's try to be at least civil after a game's over.
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Gen rushing = tunneling
They are the same thing, but on different sides
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I understand their frustration but they can't be mad at the players, they need to be annoyed with the devs for designing a game where a coordinated team can slam and finish their objectives so quickly.
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Fair. I have nothing against noed... it rarely works anyway because good survivors find it and cleans it in seconds... so. And as a killer, i never used it.
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Sounds like you're making it an issue of skill here, implying the killer isn't doing well if they "gave you all the time" to do generators.
@kyogul If a killer spend more than 160 seconds in one single chase, he isn't doing good. I'm not saying that is a lack of "skills" but, usually, if you spend more than 30 seconds in a chase, and you aren't able to give at least one hit, leave the chase. To me, that is a giant lack of "game understanding" skill.
Obviously doing objectives as survivor is not toxic and you're aware of that, but as another user said, I don't think you're cognisant of the core subject of the complaints they're making.
I don't agree, but ok, i respect your opinion. If they simply state "tryhard genrushers... the only thing you can do is hold M1!" i cannot imagine if there's an hidden meaning of it. But, if you was in a chase for more than 160 seconds, what do you want from me. Of course i hold M1 because you never came at that generator to stop me. Playing killer isn't only "hook survivors" at all costs and take out of the game one of them as soon as possible, to gain a little bit more pressure. There is also "Deviousness" as objective. Playing killer, i understand the difficulty in some maps. I understand that. Perfectly. BUT, i never complain in end game chat. I take the loss and i move on. But showing your toxicity, because we "gen rushed", i think it's stupid.
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I mean, if you want to be able to slam all the gens as fast as you can without dealing with any other part of the game, you have to accept that that's not fun for the killer. It's basically BMing but it actually helps you.
So it's basically like camping, tunneling and slugging except there aren't any strategies that counter it and there are only two or three perks that help mitigate it.
So if you don't want killers to complain about genrushing, you don't get to complain about tunneling, camping, and slugging. That's just basic fairness.
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Don't make this into something only killers do, that's really unfair. The same thing can be said for survivors that complain about Camping/Tunneling, that's just the killer following their one simple rule: to kill survivors.
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Personal rules, trying to make the game fun for everyone, all well and good. Hey, I'm in the same boat. I've already played this game for far too long, I don't care about kills, escapes, pips anymore. I let the the freshly unhooked baby dwight that runs straight back into my arms go and search for other survivors (even if the unhooker is long gone), but...
nothing is more optimal for a killer then to reduce the work power of survivors by 25% as quickly as possible. A survivor normaly takes two hits, a survivor fresh from the hook only takes one, maybe two if they have DS. Killers like Nurse, Spirit or Blight don't have to care about DS as they are right back on the survivor - nothing lost here.
There is also this myth that chasing a new survivor off a gen is more beneficial for the killer and puts more pressure on the survivors than going for the unhooked one. In both cases 3 survivors are free to do gens, doesn't matter who is getting chased. Take into account perks like iron will, dh, adrenaline and resilience and there is not even a reason to heal, especially if the killer spreads hook states between all survivors.
3 hooks on one survivor mean -25% survivor power - 3 hooks on 3 different survivors mean little if they are efficient on gens.
3 survivors left with 2 generators to repair against an experienced killer, that's tough for the survivors.
Killer with one or two gens left, even with a 3gen vs. 4 experienced survivors (each with max. one hook state), no way they don't finish the last gens.
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Its a excuse....BUT I do understand it when it comes from certain killers who just....suck at pressuring the game. Its more a design flaw in killers than a design flaw in the maps tbh. You have certain killers who perform exceptionally well with map pressure and slowing the game down. And you have killers who's kit is garbage and should be looked at to at least give them some form of gen presence. People will play those killers and expect fair results....but its not the case at all. I've played pretty much all the killers to a decent degree, I will admit my nurse game is garbage. But for at least 1/3 the killer roster, you will go into that match knowing that you will absolutely lose all of your gens.
And again thats a problem with certain killers designs more than anything. IMO BHVR should look at some of these old kits and rework them. Trapper, Huntress, Myers, Bubba, Clown, Deathslinger, and the Twins probably have the worst kits in the game when it comes to map pressure and gen pressure or even secondary objectives.
And the messed up part is that.....^ people will complain about these killers being powerful....while at the same time largely escaping every single one of their matches against said killer. And if they don't escape its because they're getting camped or slugged. Thats the truth. People whined about huntress 1 tap hatches with a multi belt.....while at the same time they have no issues escaping those matches. She has no gen pressure. (But just bring RUIN) <----Yeah thats not balanced. Especially when the rest of the killer roster doesn't need to worry about that to be effective. Its something they should look into. If every killer was at least Freddy tier, then they could buff solo survivor play to make things fair.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0
