So were twins over performing or something?
Only like 3 people play twins, so did that somehow give the devs enough data to suggest they were over performing or something?
if so when is nurse buff?
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They were worried that the Twins being good might eventually make people play them, so they nerfed just in case
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I guess it's just to deal with excessive slugging when it comes to the twins
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The Twins are a bad killer, and I'm perfectly fine with nerfing them into the ground so nobody plays the. Your threats of "I'll just play Nurse/Spirit then" are meaningless to me if it means I never have to face twins again.
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Devs probably played against Twins for the first time and realised what a complete ######### show they'd created.
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twins aren't even that good, you worried over some twins?
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Twins are actually considered top tier.
It's just that you have to use an incredibly boring, campy, un fun (for both sides) playstyle. They're the definition on "not fun".
Not true. I don't know a single survivor who wanted Billy nerfed or thought Nurse needed that blink change.
Whats the difference? Those killers were actually fun to play against. Twins are mind numbingly dull. Oh you beat Victor and kicked him? He's back in 6 seconds, go do it again.
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no???????????????
top tier is ######### nurse and spirit.
after that is pyramid, deathslinger and hag
twins is ######### C tier.
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It was a change to a play style that survivors didn't like, so they nerfed her instead of addressing the real issue of why she has to play like that to win.
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Read my post, matey. It's an incredibly stupid and boring playstyle but Twins CAN be top tier with that playstyle. Literally anyone with experience would tell you this.
And C tier is just average. That's where Doc would be around. If they're as bad as you say they'd be next to Legion and Clown.
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Oh okay.
So twins still weaker than SWF must be nerfed because they are strong to solos.
let's let SWF stomp on twins some more. Fair.
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The twins change is obviously evidence that they don't rely solely on statistics to make changes, but knowing the forums you're all going to pretend the only thing they look at is numbers and base all their changes on that.
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There is nothing they could do to change the playstyle since that is how she is most effectively played. Anyway I have played her in the past but I just found her unfun to play as. It's so dull, she is not a bad killer she is actually pretty good. Even when so big streamers play her I notice a lot of people complain that they find her boring.
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the changes don't even address the issue with her playstyle.
they just make it clunky and frustrating for the user. It's so ######### dumb. How can devs claim bad clunky gameplay design is balance?
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That's exactly my point.
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So you just want people to tell you you're right, Ok.
Anyways Dowsey was right, Twins needed a nerf but they did it wrong. The correct way would have been increasing Victor's respawn timer. Punishing him for actually landing hits was extremely dumb.
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So, what did they base the entire Billy nerf on? The opinions of bad survivors?
Either way, the Twins nerf is another proof that they have no idea how to nerf killers. Either they don't address core issues like with Spirit or they make them clunky and unfun to play like with Billy, Twins and Nurse to a lesser extent.
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They had to make it look like they're actually working on stuff so they crapped out the overheat mechanic.
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Dowsey had like a 800 winstreak with them and the other 2 twin players probably play like once or twice a week.
The win procent of twins must have been of the charts
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Twins are a very strong killer. If you understand the game decently well, you understand that. They aren't fun to play against, and they aren't even fun to play as. They are the worst designed killer in the game. That doesn't mean they're weak. It means they are anti-fun all around. Not fun for survivors, not fun for killers. This nerf didn't even change her power level. It just made her less fun to play. The increased cooldown on a successful down is pretty much nothing. To put things into perspective: Legion has a 4 second cooldown when their power runs out.
I'm half joking. I really don't think they're fun to face (or even play as). They need a serious rework, because as they stand right now just bad design all around.
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the only strong killers in the game are nurse and spirit.
please don't act like twins can dominate SWF
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What point are you trying to make here exactly? What purpose does it serve to bring Billy into this? lmao
The billy change is quite easy to explain, he was a strong killer from the get go, and despite numerous changes to map layouts, pallet quantities, speed of killer animations, exhaustion nerf etc he went unchanged, he was 'too strong' and made at a time when he needed all that.
And don't take that paragraph as me agreeing with all the billy changes because I don't, but pretending that he didn't deserve changes is naive and biased.
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killers said billy was balanced
survivors said billy was balanced
BHVR said billy was balanced
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No but I'd put twins in A tier to be honest. They are certainly able to hold their own against the average swf. I get 4ks almost every single game at rank 1 with them even against swfs.
I've only flat out lost a handful of matches with them and it was vs hyper aggressive gen rushing teams that remained split up the entire match and coordinated rescues to perfection, probably tournament teams practicing or something.
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This.
Now instead being strong at camping and slugging, they're just strong at camping.
They needed to reduce respawn time on Victor after he gets kicked while also giving Charlotte something in her kit to compensate. Maybe some kind of rage mode that activates if Victor is hurt?
But whatevs yeah, it's frustrating
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It was a terrible attempt to try to nerf their slugging capability. It doesn't hinder them in any way, it just makes them feel clunky to play because you're just forced to sit there as Victor for 5 seconds.
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Twins were only about A tier, and even then they have an abusive learning curve, and learning to play them is like learning to play Nurse but less fun.
Also, B tier is "average," not C tier. I'm not saying that it is the average, I'm just saying that averagely performing killers generally go in B tier.
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No clue. But 3 people playing twins is too many. Hopefully another nerf will bring it down to zero
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The Twins are good, you just have to know how to use them. You can body block with Cheryl, and use victor to hunt down.
Victor doesn't have a terror radius, you can hear him growling but, it's too late. You can't loop Victor traditionally and a good Killer won't try risky jumps, they will just run on top of you for the hit. As Survivor, chases with Victor aren't much fun.
Once the Survivors are injured it's GG. It takes some practice but a decent killer who runs reveal perks accustomed to slugging can be very effective with Twins.
I remember when this Killer released. I didn't like the look, the concept, basically everything. I accepted Trickster more willingly.
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You said that the devs don't rely solely on statistics to make changes, but the only explanation they gave for the Billy nerf is that he was "overperforming". Considering that everyone is still hating them for that a year later, it's undeniable that they completely ignored fun factor and player feedback. Pretty much everyone only wanted some add-ons to be nerfed and make things not stack, and they did the complete opposite of that.
They didn't nerf Twins based on statistics and they still made a poor job because the only thing that they accomplished is also making them unfun to play as.
I don't understand the point about map changes and exhaustion nerf. Every single killer benefits from these things, and they buffed the hell out of a killer like Bubba which has an easy mode chainsaw, eats through pallets like no other and he's very punishing if you get caught in a dead zone.
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Argue it with the devs dude I really don't care, but I'm not going to pretend he wasn't one of the strongest killers for a long time and a lot of changes happened and he went completely untouched, like I said, I don't agree with the changes so arguing with me is pointless, move on.
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BHVR even said billy was balanced pre-nerf
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