Autobans: Maybe we should breathe and wait?
Firstly, I do empathise with some people's concerns over autoban being abused to ban people for basically playing a game better than the opponent. It can feel very uncertain with no other information at that stage. Also, I do feel it's right to air these concerns to make devs aware of potential problems.
So now the worries are out there, it may be prudent to take a step back and not panic.
For a start, the fact there is no information means we do not have all the facts (by a large margin). Sure, we hear "autoban" and immediately jump to the idea it can be flaunted, but the devs will be aware of this. They'll understand bans are not going to be as simple as pressing a button. If it were, there'd be a lot of this:
There is one other thing I've not heard mentioned: that the person reporting the ban will not be anonymous to the devs. If someone is running about trying to report everyone, then their profile will be made aware of by the devs and the system. This may very well invalidate their complaints. Compare it to "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". If someone is going to report everyone, they are gonna be noticed for doing so, which may in turn ban them for false reporting.
Also, there would need to be evidence as well, as there is currently required when people claim someone is working with the killer or hacking. The autoban feature may simply bring details to the attention of those who make the final decision. BHVR is growing, so more people could be put towards the role of dealing with these issues.
Ultimately, it is a wait and see. Let's not unduly panic just yet until they disclose the full details. Then we 'll have all the info and can challenge them then if there appears to be a floor. Points have been raised, so now let's just wait until we know more.
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I watched the 5th anniversary of the stream where they mentioned about the new "ban" system. From what I understand it is not like the immediate "autoban" but more likely it is a system where if a player recieves more report it is more like "Let's first look at that person cause he has X amount of report" thing.
What they mean by auto-ban is that normally their customer service was looking each report one by one. So imagine a file of reports with dates on it like for example "Match 245 at 27.05.2021 at 15:00 Player CheesyGuy reported for unsportsmanlike" then the explanation of the reporter came. After their new feature instead of customer service read every report one by one, the system that is named "auto-ban" will read and highlight them. So that means after that system there will be a screen like for example "CheesyGuy reported 450 times for X,Y,Z reasons" and when the customer services saw that they will take easier action. Because now instead of seen each report one by one now they can see total reports in one segmentation and can act more precisely. That is the feature they were talking about. No online game would leave a ban decision to an AI( Artifical Intelligence) because it is a precise topic and system can make mistakes even small chance of mistakes. What they do in here is by getting the help of the system they will read the reports much more faster and they will be manage to get who is reported more in a day,week or a month so that they can follow the most reported people at the game.
I hope it is clear guys.😀
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Those devs have really issues. If you drop a bomb like that, you have to explain it right away how they mean it. It was clear, that the forum will go apeshit if they explain like nothing. ULTRAFAIL
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Its obvious that they dont want the game to die. So autoban will not be as bad as some on this forum think.
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I'll be personally recording my own matches for now on just to be safe haha
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Remember when they first tried MMR how bad it was? People with a few hours in game getting matched against people with thousands of hours? That was easy to solve: public outcry on every social media and it was just disabled.
Now, the *same* people who came up with that MMR are developing a system that will automatically ban players. I don't need any explanation, I don't want any explanation or guarantee. I just don't want an autoban system. Because imagine having to write a ticket to the support because you were unjustly banned, waiting for either a copy/paste reply that *might* say you got unbanned. No thanks.
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Also imagine if it does work well, and those that DC selfishly and ruin other people's experience actually got punished as they deserve.
OP is correct, let's see how it works before flipping out, if it's exploitable it will indeed be terrible, but they will have factored that in. Personally I am all for a system which actually works, it's pretty normal in an online multiplayer game to be able to stop people abusing the game.
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I can already see how their customer support collapses after the introduction of the auto ban system.
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Yeah right. And those with a bad internet that don't necessarily rage quit? What about them?
Ah yes, "get a better internet" or "play offline games"
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Nah MMR and auto ban are two very different things. MMR won't keep a person from playing the game they paid for because someone decided to get a bot to mass report people. Also the Customer service in this game isn't exactly the best in the world. Good luck waiting for at least a month for an un ban appeal from a live person. The people defending this are the same people that think "Tunneling and Camping are toxic".
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That's a different aspect, again the devs will have to account for people's internet issues, happens to everyone at some point. Of course if it happens repeatedly soon after each other then either yes you shouldn't be playing at that moment because you are going to keep ruining others' games or they are just shutting down their system/game to get out of the game.
This is standard stuff in lots of games, but here it's the end of days despite us knowing next to nothing about it.
Your answer to what I was saying is "yeah right" and then you put quotation marks assuming my response.
If people are DCing repeatedly they should get bans, I wish they were longer than they currently are.
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Honnestly i cant wait to use it on some people :)
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I'm not worried about the autoban feature as I was a few days ago. Because when it comes out, it's probably only gonna work when there's enough reports that can get the player banned, and that's if the reports are legit and the player was maybe hacking or not playing the rules of the game if this makes sense.
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Yea but what happens when a salty streamer or fog whisperer loses and has their followers go mass report someone? I guess that poor son a ######### is just banned for winning
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After the UI "revamp" that gave me eye strain, the chat filter that filters "Myers" "Real" and "Name" as toxic words and the first MMR iteration that put people with 4000 hours against people with 50 minutes I think everyone should be concerned about an Autoban system.
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but what I'm trying to say is the reports probably won't work for playing the game correctly.
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I hope your right it's just that nothing they ever do works as intended and you already know people are gonna find a way to exploit it if it isn't ironclad and working right
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Unless this autoban system can somehow filter out the 90% of reports that are false and filled with whining over camping and other BS, it's going to be abused like the current report system is. At least the current in-game system is nothing more than a placebo as all in-game reports are ignored. Only those who go through customer support with evidence of hacking or harassment get paid attention to. Which is something the camper complainers don't bother to do.
People who abuse the future autoban system, and a large chunk of the playerbase will, should themselves receive bans.
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If that's how it ends up working, BHVR REALLY needs to work on their wording. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that an 'autoban' system would automatically ban people. All this backlash is a good thing overall, BHVR needs to know that automatically banning people is a bad idea. The fact that they're willing to call the system autoban, regardless of what it will actually do, shows that they were not aware of the backlash automatically banning people would cause. Now they hopefully are.
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I'll wait, but I refuse to breathe. I know what the government puts in the air, and you won't put your 5G in my lungs.
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The biggest flaw with the MMR system was that it was applied without shadowrunning the program first. It just assumed all players were new.
Eventually it would have straightened out, like after a month or 2, but that all could have been avoided if they simply shadowran the program. Current matchmaking already has mixed matches where the game can easily find out what players would be below 1000 elo and what players would be above that. Shadowrunning the program for a month or 2 before implementation would have solved the outcry. Because it was working as MMR should, it's just never a good decision to add in an MMR system in a game that has been running for 5 years. Imagine Dota or League of Legends implementing a brand new MMR system, ignoring the old data and never shadowrunning it. I can guarantuee you that you'd have extremely high tier players playing against the lowest tier players quite often.
The MMR wasnt bad, the way they implemented it was.
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Nope, when they implemented MMR they explicitly stated that they had collected tons of data in the previous months so that people wouldn't just be rerset to 0
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Except that they didnt collect tons of data on matchmaking. They made the system predict the outcome, and if the outcome was exactly as predicted, not much would change in ELO, but if it was more to one side than the other one, it would change ELO accordingly(example being, if you were a red rank killer, the game would predict you to get a 4k in 5-6 minutes on green ranks, but if the green ranks were to have a 3 man escape after 15 minutes, your MMR as killer would drop massively, while if you were to get a 4k in 1 minute, it would increase massively).
You cannot implement an MMR system with people already being at higher ranks. Thus all ranks MUST be equal on launch. Their MMR system had 0 data on player ELO. It was just a system that had enough data to predict the outcomes of the match and based ELO around the difference.
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Knowing this dev team yes I absolutely do think people should be freaking out. Don't you remember the MMR system when it first launched? An auto ban feature is a bad idea, there is nothing good about it other than their people who moderate those reports having an easier time, which I honestly don't give two shits about. No no no no no, bad idea, just stop.
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Ikr, like it's good to be skeptical given their track record, but some people are acting like the system is already implemented and it's broken beyond belief.
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Why is the forum full of people who blindly defend BHVR in every single possible way? Are you being paid or you just have that much devotion to some corporation that sells you a broken game and makes you grind and work for it to be fun.
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Remember MMR, and how bad both attempts were? Or the dc penalty system, and how many times it had to be disabled due to hacking? Or the current chat censor system?
Every time the devs input a system like this, it fails. Sure, they may fix the issues in the end, but how long does that take? How many players will be affected by the ban system, vs how many will get their accounts back due to bad reports?
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I do remember the problems with MMR and the dc system, and understand why these don't exactly instill much in the way of faith in this upcoming autoban feature with people
I suppose the thing which may work in BHVR's favour is their experience with issues in these systems and how much they learnt from it. Tru3Talent's hack ban he received whilst streaming was a big indicator of an issue, but recently I'm not aware of any hacks with this system. So if they are learning to perfect systems and succeeding in doing so, then it's possible they'll be more capable and wary when adding new features.
They could follow how Rainbow 6 Siege dealt with their autoban feature by having the feature initially pick up on issues, but the final decision was to be made manually. Currently, we have no information on what will be happening, but I believe they will be more cautious, especially knowing they'll have more people coming into the game.
Again, I'll reiterate: it's important to make them aware of concerns, but at the same time doomsaying (not saying you are by the way; I'm more refering to some of the reactions) isn't productive and it's best to wait until more information comes through to make a better assessment and press them with questions that arise thereafter.
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Not how that works. You can't REPORT people except for the end game chat screen. Maybe stop guessing and being overly paranoid and hyperbolic. It's not a rating system. Common sense and a modicum of maturity seem to be missing more so than ever in the forums these days.
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I did say they 'may' fix the issues in the end. I don't doubt they can do such a thing, learning from past experience. The issue on hand, though, is actual banning. How many accounts may/will be banned before the devs shut the system down to work on it, and how many players will actually get their accounts back after the dust clears?
It's one thing to be banned for a few hours due to dcing, real or not, it's another to have longer, if not perma bans, because of a faulty system. That is what I'm afraid of. Some snotty swf that mass reports me for not letting them bully me, or a few of the new charm users that claim I did such and such because of their charms, or any other banning excuse that can be used; I'll get the ban, and then fall through the cracks when the devs attempt to fix the issue.
An auto ban system if ripe for abuse. The devs track record make it even scarier.
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Oh i'll wait alright with popcorn out to see if its as much a disaster as I think it will be and if isnt well I still had a bowl of popcorn.
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Wnat do I press to breathe?
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Alt+F4. It'll force a breather.
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I suppose that's where my hope lies: in that when it's initially set up it will have human input before any decision for the ban is made. Certainly at the start that's where they need to be.
Here's also hoping that it's going to be more than just hitting a button to truely trigger it. I can't imagine anyone tedious enough to file a ticket for every minor grievance, but then I've come across some of the silliest people (putting it politely!).
But until then I'll wait for further details to be revealed, and if it does throw up more concerns I'll be voicing them just as much as anyone else would.
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