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Unpopular opinion: The Legion is mostly fine as they are
The reason the Legion feels underwhelming has little to do with their power or stats. Similarly to the Doctor when he was first released, the problem is the Deep Wound mechanic that their power relies on. Deep Wound is simply not that great.
Changes to the Legion will not fix the problem. Deep Wound is what needs fixing.
Comments
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oh wow... i was expecting something else, but you are actually right with this. if the deep wound status effect was more threatening, the legion would be way better immediately.
just make the timer tick down during a chase too, its not that hard... .-.
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@Mister_xD said:
oh wow... i was expecting something else, but you are actually right with this. if the deep wound status effect was more threatening, the legion would be way better immediately.just make the timer tick down during a chase too, its not that hard... .-.
The timer should not tick down during a chase for the same reason RBTs don't. I laid out some suggestions here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/32396/deep-wound-mend-and-legion-changes
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Well some obvious fixes might be making the mending effect have sound and making the timer goes down while mending, so you can't just immediately stop the timer entirely. Gives the Legion a little bit more pressure.
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they need to fix the double stun, hopefully fix how far he vaults, and make the timer continue during mend.
those three fixes would make him a lot more viable from what I've seen, hopefully without making him OP.0 -
It should tick while in chase or mending, just slower than normal, maybe 50 or 25% of what it normally is, and it should be like Snap out of it, if u stop mending, progress should be set back to 0, and with skill checks like in snap out of it4
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Well there is multiple things holding him or her back @Orion. First, when you hit everyone with Frenzy, great job but... now you have to start a 110% M1 chase to seal the deal and down a survivor. This method is so inefficient - by the time a survivor makes a mistake - the time wasted by DW'ing everyone is non existent. Second, the killer is sooooo sluggish which encourages you to use your power to keep hammering the same survivor which gives the survivor no counter play to outplay the Legion (unless ofc the player is not good).Orion said:The reason the Legion feels underwhelming has little to do with their power or stats. Similarly to the Doctor when he was first released, the problem is the Deep Wound mechanic that their power relies on. Deep Wound is simply not that great.
Changes to the Legion will not fix the problem. Deep Wound is what needs fixing.
My Solution:
Increase the DW timer to 60 seconds and the timer will decrease at 50% the speed when in a chase which would be 120 seconds (bare with me my friend).
Healthy survivors getting DW can mend themselves without aid from allies. However injured survivors getting DW cannot mend themselves and need aid from their allies or they can kiss the ground. Of course to balance this situation, the survivor will see auras of all survivors remaining in the trial so they can find a teammate and at the bottom of the screen it will say, "Find Help!" To help newer players understand what's going on. Everything will reset regardless if you are successful or not at finding help.
Lastly, increase his or her movement speed to 4.6m/s ~115% to give the killer lethality when not using Frenzy. Ofc you can increase the CD on Frenzy to compensate but he really REALLY lacks lethality when not using Frenzy.
This would encourage survivors to heal to the healthy state which will waste time (the developers intentions). Survivors will now be punished if they enter DW from the injured state which will waste even more time. Additionally, DW will now be more lethal to the survivor and can cause problematic situations if they choose to not heal to the healthy state.
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Not sure how the Doctor's original release compares with DW. Original Doctor's problem was that madness didn't actually do anything without add-ons and switching modes was too punishing.0
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
Not sure how the Doctor's original release compares with DW. Original Doctor's problem was that madness didn't actually do anything without add-ons and switching modes was too punishing.And the Legion's problem is that Deep Wound doesn't actually do anything and using their power is too punishing.
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What is this double stun everyone speaks of?Avariku said:they need to fix the double stun, hopefully fix how far he vaults, and make the timer continue during mend.
those three fixes would make him a lot more viable from what I've seen, hopefully without making him OP.
Are you hitting the same person twice in frenzy? Because once you hit them once you need to manually cancel frenzy with M2 rather than hitting them a second time. This way you get 1 stun and they don't get a speed boost from the hit.
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Problem is that you are then commiting to chasing a survivor as a 110% movement speed killerThe_Crusader said:
What is this double stun everyone speaks of?Avariku said:they need to fix the double stun, hopefully fix how far he vaults, and make the timer continue during mend.
those three fixes would make him a lot more viable from what I've seen, hopefully without making him OP.
Are you hitting the same person twice in frenzy? Because once you hit them once you need to manually cancel frenzy with M2 rather than hitting them a second time. This way you get 1 stun and they don't get a speed boost from the hit.
It's like chasing with a Hag in an area without traps
Or not reloading your hatchets as Huntress
It's a lose lose situation really
You're better of hitting them twice so you get more emblem points that way
I think anyway0 -
I like your suggestions. However I don’t think that the timer ticking down during chases would be too problematic. The situation is not really comparable to RBTs. Those kill you whereas deep wound merely puts you in the dying state.Orion said:@Mister_xD said:
oh wow... i was expecting something else, but you are actually right with this. if the deep wound status effect was more threatening, the legion would be way better immediately.just make the timer tick down during a chase too, its not that hard... .-.
The timer should not tick down during a chase for the same reason RBTs don't. I laid out some suggestions here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/32396/deep-wound-mend-and-legion-changes
(Although I am of the opinion that also the RBT timer shouldn’t stop during chases. The time until it kills you is way, way too long. It’s only a nuisance, not a threat)1 -
I've been saying this and people just disregard it and complain about legion again.Orion said:The reason the Legion feels underwhelming has little to do with their power or stats. Similarly to the Doctor when he was first released, the problem is the Deep Wound mechanic that their power relies on. Deep Wound is simply not that great.
Changes to the Legion will not fix the problem. Deep Wound is what needs fixing.
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I do agree that Deep Wounds is the problem
Right now it's a shield for survivors that tanks 2 to 3 hits and reduced the healing time to 10 sec and makes them immune to Nurse Calling
With as downside that they have to do it the moment they get out of chase
It helps more then it hurts
Honestly the slightest tweak will turn Legion from the worst killer to high mid tier
Let the timer be remembered as long as your injured
Or make it so the timer starts at half when you are hit when injured
Anything that makes survivors want to heal against them and his ability will slow the game down as it was intended
It really shows how delicate the balancing of this game is0 -
@Carpemortum said:
I've been saying this and people just disregard it and complain about legion again.Reminds me of when I say that people need to group up in KYF to play the PTB. Everyone either ignores the comments or straight-up vanishes when I mention it. The few that respond then mysteriously disappear when it becomes clear it's a very real and simple possibility.
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@Orion said:
The reason the Legion feels underwhelming has little to do with their power or stats. Similarly to the Doctor when he was first released, the problem is the Deep Wound mechanic that their power relies on. Deep Wound is simply not that great.Changes to the Legion will not fix the problem. Deep Wound is what needs fixing.
Legion actually needs his double stun fixed, after that maybe some other tweaks (faster base recharge on his power since he moves so slow?) honestly I think an interesting change would be to survivors having a cooldown on their adrenaline hit run since that gimps Legion and was probably never looked at on a developer standpoint for a multiple hitting killer.
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@Orion said:
The reason the Legion feels underwhelming has little to do with their power or stats. Similarly to the Doctor when he was first released, the problem is the Deep Wound mechanic that their power relies on. Deep Wound is simply not that great.Changes to the Legion will not fix the problem. Deep Wound is what needs fixing.
True, deep wounds is my biggest issue about this patch since it buffs BT to an insane perk.
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@akbays35 said:
@Orion said:
The reason the Legion feels underwhelming has little to do with their power or stats. Similarly to the Doctor when he was first released, the problem is the Deep Wound mechanic that their power relies on. Deep Wound is simply not that great.Changes to the Legion will not fix the problem. Deep Wound is what needs fixing.
Legion actually needs his double stun fixed, after that maybe some other tweaks (faster base recharge on his power since he moves so slow?) honestly I think an interesting change would be to survivors having a cooldown on their adrenaline hit run since that gimps Legion and was probably never looked at on a developer standpoint for a multiple hitting killer.
The Legion do need some changes to their base kit, IMO, but even if they were to remain the same and Deep Wound were changed instead, they'd be fine.
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Just make mend take 30 seconds and that would vastly improve his game. A 10 second timeout just isn't enough.
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