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Simple fix for Legion

Sonzaishinai
Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
in General Discussions
Hey everyone
After playing with Legion a bit
There is a clear weakness that they have
That their power just can't down people reliably
And being a slow killer normal chases are out of the question
Luckelly it doesn't take much to make them much more viable

My idea would be to have the Deep Wound timer be remembered
For example Legion hits you 2 times with their power
You get away and ment with half a bar remaining
The next time Legion would hit you you start at half a bar
This resets on full heal or down

That way the common strategy of not healing would be punished
Healing would be needed wich will increase the gamelengt and make Legion much more viable

Any thoughts?

Comments

  • dontTouchMyGens
    dontTouchMyGens Member Posts: 35
    Good idea in principle, however it wouldn’t change much since the timer isn‘t ticking during a chase and starting the mending stops it as well. So you can always mend, regardless of how long the bar is.
  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
    It would make hitting them twice not a waste and force the survivor to waste time to heal up or be at risk to be downed the next time Legion get's them


    I'm not a fan of the time ticking while in a chase
    There's little counterplay for the survivor being chased and it forces Legion to only go after one survivor which is a losing strategy anyway

    IMO all they need is for people to have an incentive to heal back up
    So their power wastes the time it should waste

  • dontTouchMyGens
    dontTouchMyGens Member Posts: 35
    The best idea for an incentive to heal up came from Monto: If you hit someone with your rage attack who is injured but not inflicted with deep wound, that person is downed instantly. 

    It would be kind of weird that someone who is deeply wounded is better off that someone who is only injured, but from a gameplay perspective it would be a huge incentive to heal.
  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
    dontTouchMyGens said:
    The best idea for an incentive to heal up came from Monto: If you hit someone with your rage attack who is injured but not inflicted with deep wound, that person is downed instantly. 

    It would be kind of weird that someone who is deeply wounded is better off that someone who is only injured, but from a gameplay perspective it would be a huge incentive to heal.
    I feel like that may be too much seeing as they will know where you are if they hit anyone else on the team
    But yes something like that
  • twistedmonkey
    twistedmonkey Member Posts: 4,296

    @dontTouchMyGens said:
    The best idea for an incentive to heal up came from Monto: If you hit someone with your rage attack who is injured but not inflicted with deep wound, that person is downed instantly. 

    It would be kind of weird that someone who is deeply wounded is better off that someone who is only injured, but from a gameplay perspective it would be a huge incentive to heal.

    That is way too strong, in fenzy they get a notification where you are, if they hit someone and the cooldown resets, there is no real outplay to something like this if you are not far enough away that they cannot get to you, it is bascially an easy down.

    Simplest fix right now is to give them the normal movement speed, since the M2 power isnt designed to down players.

  • dontTouchMyGens
    dontTouchMyGens Member Posts: 35
    I agree that it may be a little bit too strong, but I‘m sure it could be balanced.

    Normal movement speed alone wouldn’t do much. You would just end up with a standard chase in which your ability doesn’t help you at all. Frenzy would be a gimmick without any real reason to use it.
  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    115% movement speed would make him OP as hell.

    His first hit is bssically free. He moves at 120% speed and can vault pallets. It takes him just a few seconds to injure a survivor and there's pretty much nothing they can do about it.

    Combine that with the fact that he can injure people so easily that most people dont bother to heal, you'd essentially have a 115% speed killer who can 1 hit everyone.
  • twistedmonkey
    twistedmonkey Member Posts: 4,296

    @The_Crusader said:
    115% movement speed would make him OP as hell.

    His first hit is bssically free. He moves at 120% speed and can vault pallets. It takes him just a few seconds to injure a survivor and there's pretty much nothing they can do about it.

    Combine that with the fact that he can injure people so easily that most people dont bother to heal, you'd essentially have a 115% speed killer who can 1 hit everyone.

    That is part of the problem with not wanting to heal it sort of negates the power, the power is designed to slow players down, the usage also comes with a stun so you will be able to break chase quite easily if they vault a pallet, think about it this way it is probally the same or longer time than it takes to break the pallet for other killers.

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    twistedmonkey said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    115% movement speed would make him OP as hell.

    His first hit is bssically free. He moves at 120% speed and can vault pallets. It takes him just a few seconds to injure a survivor and there's pretty much nothing they can do about it.

    Combine that with the fact that he can injure people so easily that most people dont bother to heal, you'd essentially have a 115% speed killer who can 1 hit everyone.

    That is part of the problem with not wanting to heal it sort of negates the power, the power is designed to slow players down, the usage also comes with a stun so you will be able to break chase quite easily if they vault a pallet, think about it this way it is probally the same or longer time than it takes to break the pallet for other killers.

    If he was 115% speed he'd basically be Myers but without the need to waste time stalking.

    Also if you catch them in the open and cancel the frenzy with M2, he will be close enough to land a hit. So he'd be better than Myers.

    Throw on enduring/spirit frenzy/bamboozle for when they're in a loop etc

    He'd be up there with Billy. As much as killer mains refuse to accept it, Billy isn't balanced. Not by todays standards.

    Remember that Legion started out too strong thats why they had to nerf him to what he is.

    I know they wanted the killer to be fun but making one that can sprint and vault pallets was a mistake. He'll never be balanced correctly.


  • M2Fream
    M2Fream Member Posts: 288
    I think something that would bring him up to speed would be this:
    After his power bar has drained he can still run and vault pallets but when he attacks, instead of attacking, he will go into power cooldown 
  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
    The_Crusader said:
    twistedmonkey said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    115% movement speed would make him OP as hell.

    His first hit is bssically free. He moves at 120% speed and can vault pallets. It takes him just a few seconds to injure a survivor and there's pretty much nothing they can do about it.

    Combine that with the fact that he can injure people so easily that most people dont bother to heal, you'd essentially have a 115% speed killer who can 1 hit everyone.

    That is part of the problem with not wanting to heal it sort of negates the power, the power is designed to slow players down, the usage also comes with a stun so you will be able to break chase quite easily if they vault a pallet, think about it this way it is probally the same or longer time than it takes to break the pallet for other killers.

    If he was 115% speed he'd basically be Myers but without the need to waste time stalking.

    Also if you catch them in the open and cancel the frenzy with M2, he will be close enough to land a hit. So he'd be better than Myers.

    Throw on enduring/spirit frenzy/bamboozle for when they're in a loop etc

    He'd be up there with Billy. As much as killer mains refuse to accept it, Billy isn't balanced. Not by todays standards.

    Remember that Legion started out too strong thats why they had to nerf him to what he is.

    I know they wanted the killer to be fun but making one that can sprint and vault pallets was a mistake. He'll never be balanced correctly.


    They are pretty close to being balanced tbh
    When survivors actually heal you win a lot of time
    There just needs to be some lethality to their power
    Either by making Deep Wounds threatening by for example
    Only able to be mended by allies or allowing the timer to tick while mending
    Or by making it easier to down them after their injured by my idea

    I'm quite curious what the devs will do though
    I feel that the smallest tweak could make them a real fun killer without being nurse level
  • twistedmonkey
    twistedmonkey Member Posts: 4,296

    @The_Crusader said:
    If he was 115% speed he'd basically be Myers but without the need to waste time stalking.

    Also if you catch them in the open and cancel the frenzy with M2, he will be close enough to land a hit. So he'd be better than Myers.

    Throw on enduring/spirit frenzy/bamboozle for when they're in a loop etc

    He'd be up there with Billy. As much as killer mains refuse to accept it, Billy isn't balanced. Not by todays standards.

    Remember that Legion started out too strong thats why they had to nerf him to what he is.

    I know they wanted the killer to be fun but making one that can sprint and vault pallets was a mistake. He'll never be balanced correctly.

    If you cancel M2 and you get the stun but cannot move, open play isnt as harsh then, any time you are caught in the open you will generally go down anyway, Myers isnt that strong he is mid tier, there is nothing wrong with Legion being 5th place on the list.

    What he lacks right now is the power to down someone in a chase, he can use M2 waiting on it to regenbut that wastes a lot of time, he is an M1 killer at heart so the perks you mentioned can be used with them all, all he can do is close a gap, with the stun he loses that momentum.

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    Sonzaishinai said:
    The_Crusader said:
    twistedmonkey said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    115% movement speed would make him OP as hell.

    His first hit is bssically free. He moves at 120% speed and can vault pallets. It takes him just a few seconds to injure a survivor and there's pretty much nothing they can do about it.

    Combine that with the fact that he can injure people so easily that most people dont bother to heal, you'd essentially have a 115% speed killer who can 1 hit everyone.

    That is part of the problem with not wanting to heal it sort of negates the power, the power is designed to slow players down, the usage also comes with a stun so you will be able to break chase quite easily if they vault a pallet, think about it this way it is probally the same or longer time than it takes to break the pallet for other killers.

    If he was 115% speed he'd basically be Myers but without the need to waste time stalking.

    Also if you catch them in the open and cancel the frenzy with M2, he will be close enough to land a hit. So he'd be better than Myers.

    Throw on enduring/spirit frenzy/bamboozle for when they're in a loop etc

    He'd be up there with Billy. As much as killer mains refuse to accept it, Billy isn't balanced. Not by todays standards.

    Remember that Legion started out too strong thats why they had to nerf him to what he is.

    I know they wanted the killer to be fun but making one that can sprint and vault pallets was a mistake. He'll never be balanced correctly.


    They are pretty close to being balanced tbh
    When survivors actually heal you win a lot of time
    There just needs to be some lethality to their power
    Either by making Deep Wounds threatening by for example
    Only able to be mended by allies or allowing the timer to tick while mending
    Or by making it easier to down them after their injured by my idea

    I'm quite curious what the devs will do though
    I feel that the smallest tweak could make them a real fun killer without being nurse level
    The problem there is...

    1) Only able to be mended by allies.

    What happens when two survivors are left? If Legion hits one he can simply follow that one survivor to the other and then injure them. Then they either both run and bleed out, or attempt to stand mending each other in front of him and die, or the one you hit first doesnt lead you to the other and he gets to bleed out until hes downed and then hooked.

    Same with 3 survivors. You have 1 at the far end of the map. He gets hit, cant find or make it to other survivors and bleeds out. Remember how easily Legion gets that first hit. He'd be the best slugg in the game. God forbid you manage to stick them all in one go like I did, if they had to mend each other they'd be screwed.


    2) Timer ticks down in chase.

    This would be perfect for tunneling. Land 1 unavoidable hit then chase them. You either hit them and they go down, or they loop you for a while and then they go down anyway. It's unfair on the survivor as they can't do anything. You can say "well make the timer longer" but then Legion players would complain the timer takes too long to down people.

    It's a very tricky killer to balance. Doesn't help that a lot of people have been playing him wrong and taking a double stun when they could have just been taking one.
  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    @The_Crusader said:
    Sonzaishinai said:


    The_Crusader said:


    twistedmonkey said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    115% movement speed would make him OP as hell.

    His first hit is bssically free. He moves at 120% speed and can vault pallets. It takes him just a few seconds to injure a survivor and there's pretty much nothing they can do about it.

    Combine that with the fact that he can injure people so easily that most people dont bother to heal, you'd essentially have a 115% speed killer who can 1 hit everyone.

    That is part of the problem with not wanting to heal it sort of negates the power, the power is designed to slow players down, the usage also comes with a stun so you will be able to break chase quite easily if they vault a pallet, think about it this way it is probally the same or longer time than it takes to break the pallet for other killers.

    If he was 115% speed he'd basically be Myers but without the need to waste time stalking.

    Also if you catch them in the open and cancel the frenzy with M2, he will be close enough to land a hit. So he'd be better than Myers.

    Throw on enduring/spirit frenzy/bamboozle for when they're in a loop etc

    He'd be up there with Billy. As much as killer mains refuse to accept it, Billy isn't balanced. Not by todays standards.

    Remember that Legion started out too strong thats why they had to nerf him to what he is.

    I know they wanted the killer to be fun but making one that can sprint and vault pallets was a mistake. He'll never be balanced correctly.

    They are pretty close to being balanced tbh
    When survivors actually heal you win a lot of time
    There just needs to be some lethality to their power
    Either by making Deep Wounds threatening by for example
    Only able to be mended by allies or allowing the timer to tick while mending
    Or by making it easier to down them after their injured by my idea

    I'm quite curious what the devs will do though
    I feel that the smallest tweak could make them a real fun killer without being nurse level

    The problem there is...

    1) Only able to be mended by allies.

    What happens when two survivors are left? If Legion hits one he can simply follow that one survivor to the other and then injure them. Then they either both run and bleed out, or attempt to stand mending each other in front of him and die, or the one you hit first doesnt lead you to the other and he gets to bleed out until hes downed and then hooked.

    Same with 3 survivors. You have 1 at the far end of the map. He gets hit, cant find or make it to other survivors and bleeds out. Remember how easily Legion gets that first hit. He'd be the best slugg in the game. God forbid you manage to stick them all in one go like I did, if they had to mend each other they'd be screwed.

    2) Timer ticks down in chase.

    This would be perfect for tunneling. Land 1 unavoidable hit then chase them. You either hit them and they go down, or they loop you for a while and then they go down anyway. It's unfair on the survivor as they can't do anything. You can say "well make the timer longer" but then Legion players would complain the timer takes too long to down people.

    It's a very tricky killer to balance. Doesn't help that a lot of people have been playing him wrong and taking a double stun when they could have just been taking one.

    1) Yeah i would prefer the idea that their power is more lethal when used on an injured person, but mended being a co-op action is an idea that's thrown around a lot and I just added it

    2) note that i said timer ticks while mending
    In a chase would be horrible as there is no real counterplay for the survivor that way