Nemesis The Strongest Killer So Far? (Best Of NEMESIS)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w77Xyqf7iE&ab_channel=HellCloudRider
I think he is the best killer and 90% will play him.
Alone with the zombies in some maps you win alone with that... :)
What do you guys think?
Comments
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I have already played more than 15 games with him and his right click seems very very strong to me, but the Zombies in the vast majority of the maps are completely useless, too little intelligence and a lot of RNG, and even in closed maps which is where best they work, they only get to hit twice as much.
I think he needs a few changes because, although I think Zombies need to be heavily buffed, Buffed Zombies along with the right click I think would do too much to him, so I think both parts should be tweaked.
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He doesn't have mobility & his power 3shot to down so no he's not the strongest. He's a good A tier, that's what he is.
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With all four vaccines used he need to 3 shoot 8 times and the range is quite short. PH have a similar power, his is larger & longer and there are a bunch of killer stronger than him. So I fail to see why you'd place Nemesis next to Nurse & Spirit in term of power.
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Nurse will always be the strongest
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He´s a mid tier killer at best. His power can easily negated by decent survivors (getting bitten by zombies).
Since being infected has no negative effect for survivors, they will just stay infected during the whole game. Since he will stay on T1, he basically is a powerless m1 killer with 2 rng zombies that can or can not block small areas.
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He's generally fine, the issue is the zombies being too weak on most maps. They're supposed to be his pseudo map pressure which they fail at on larger maps.
Is he the best PTB state killer we've had in a long time? Yes
Does that mean he's good where he's at? No
Most PTB state killers were just in literally embarrassing states, so when we say he's the best PTB state killer we've had in a long time it's all relative.
He needs more zombies based on the map size and addons to add zombies. Unfortunately they've already said he's not getting it.
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"Arnt going to require 3 hits from it." Yes you are if all vaccines are used. You need to down survivor 12 times, 8 of them are gonna be 3 hit with his power, that's 2/3 of the time.
"You're not going to be able to make a lot of distance from Nemesis once he hits T2." Yes you are, his pallet break animation with his power is about the same as basic pallet break with a bonus of really slow movement speed.
"Im just failing to see why people keep acting like every single hit from his tentacle is going to be 3 every time" That's because other killer can do the same but much better.
eg: Demo doesn't hit on the other side of wall or window but in the very same situation he will still hit survivor or break pallet from a bigger distance. Same goes for PH.
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What range attack? If he doesn´t reach T1, then he won´t be able to hit survivors over pallets.
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I think he is in definitely A tier. Your average killer user is is going to get the handle in him quickly. So he may be the best easiest killer in the game. But I think he is the 2 best killer indoor.
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He´ll be a worse Plague. At least Plagues infection lowers survivors health. Just watch how survivors will search zombies actively and get infected on purpose.
Sure, he´ll be decent on lower ranks. But every killer is. Higher ranked survivors will stomp him.
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Nope, not even close. Any Killer that is vulnerable to the holding W strategy will never be S tier. Nurse, Spirit, and Blight all have the ability to catch up to survivors in seconds and have incredible map mobility. Nemesis doesn't have the ability to catch up with survivors quickly and doesn't really have any map mobility.
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"And you can drain the vaccines quickly." So your entire argument is that survivor can play dumb like vs plague? Yeah, no.
"He's roughly in around demo/bubba area." No, it take about 2s to break a pallet/wall with his power. Normal speed is 2.6s
Go check at 3.12 to 3.16 at 50% speed.
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In all the matches i played against him, even when he had his power, i never felt pressured. Because you overvaluate his whip. It can be dodged fairly easy. You´ll see, once he goes live, he won´t be the monster killer you think he is.
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I really, really doubt it. Spirit and Nurse at the very least will be stronger, and arguably Blight as well. Maybe even a few other killers.
Just looking at the first few clips I would argue the survivors going against Nemesis weren't that great either. In Otz's clip, the survivor would have gone down no matter what, and in the clip of tru3 after that the survivor should have gone in the house, but that clip does show the potential of the zombies off. They definitely need to lose collision though after hitting a survivor for sure.
I believe he might already be in a pretty perfect spot balance wise, except for maybe a few design problems they could improve. He seems strong enough to be viable even at red ranks but not too powerful to be op or anything.
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Does Spirit exist in this dimension?
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That's not quite true. His power is pretty strong even at tier 1, and survivors that are infected only need two hits of nemesis ability to go down, if they aren't infected, they will need 3 hits to go down. That can definitely have an impact seeing as his ability hits survivors over pallets and vaults.
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Until they make another killer that breaks all the fundamental mechanics of DbD, so Nurse but better, nothing they release will ever be even considered as the "best killer". And they're probably not gonna make that mistake again, they've learned since then. Good clickbait to promote your channel though...I guess.
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IF he gets his ability. So he has to choose between 3 hitting a survivor (does nobody see the issue here?) and not using his power.
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But he has his power? Or am I misunderstanding something? He can use his ability even at tier 1, it just has slightly less range and can't break pallets. And you can still charge up your ability by killing zombies, even if that is a bit time consuming.
Also, 3 hitting is not a problem when considering how strong his ability is.
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Thats like calling Plague OP, because her ability exposes survivors that touch infected gens.
His power is everything but strong.
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I don't even get this comparison. Could you please explain that comparison, cause it makes absolutely 0 sense to me.
His ability is very strong in chases since it can hit survivors over pallets and vaults. Even with the limited range it's still very strong.
Further more, there are two zombies in each match that can apply some nice, additional map pressure.
If survivors don't get vaccinated, they go down after two hits from Nemesis ability, but Nemesis will have a harder time tiering up his ability. If survivors do vaccinate, they waste a bit of time and getting hit by the ability of Nemesis gives him some more charge, but now they can take 3 hits instead of 2. So survivors are pretty much given the option what to do, with one not being necessarily better than the other in my opinion.
I wouldn't mind more encouragement for vaccinating, in fact the one change I would hope for, is to have Nemesis simply build up his tiers over time based on how many survivors are infected, and then increasing the amount of vaccinations on the map to 8 or something similar. But if they don't change that, I still think he'll be in a good spot.
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"Even with the limited range it's still very strong." It's not just the range, it's the size. Demo's Shred or PH Punishment of the Damned are stronger. Demo also have mobility and PH can cage people. He is not as strong as people say he is, he's around PH & Demo.
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Current game meta is to rush gens. Its not rare to lose 2 or 3 gens during the first chase. Which is a 2 hit chase. Now make it a 3 hit chase and the killer faces losing 4 gens until he gets his first hook. At that time, the power is still not in T2. So he can´t use it to hit over pallets. The unhook will be pretty safe, because again 3 hits to down the rescuing survivor. By the time the killer gets his second hook, the last gen will be repaired.
Terrible tradeoff to get the power to hit over pallets (something the Huntress or the Plague can do)
Plagues power exposes survivors. Current meta against her is to not cleanse and just rush gens. So survivor that require just 1 hit to get downed, can beat Plague by just hugging gens. Plague can hit over pallets and her puke can down survivors in a greater distance than Nemesis. So in all terms Plague is better than Nemesis.
Plague isn´t exactly a S tier killer. So Nemesis also won´t be.
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I absolutely agree. Also, I find it so jarring talking about zombies in dead by daylight. Like, what the hell lol. I mean that in a good way. But yeah, I think his tentacle is good right now, definitely some hitbox tweaks and maybe ever so slightly more range. Not a whole lot, but just enough. Would.. 12 be acceptable?
Now for Zombies, yeah a few more sprinkled into the match would be awesome. Or if this makes sense, make them slightly faster in the base kit. I don't know what their movement is at the moment, so I don't want to pull a random number out of my rear end and call it a day. But, at least that's what I'm thinking. They need more movement or something
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My biggest issues with him is his Tier 2 and Tier 3 tentacle lunge. By default, Tier 2 should be 6 meters and Tier 3 be 8 meters, the same range as Pyramid Head's M2 attack. That way, it gives players a better incentive to go for Tier 3 rather than grinding for a slightly better version of Tier 2. In addition, Survivors who are contaminated should have a bigger debuff, cause coughing and vomiting is just not impactful and detrimental.
The zombie count can be increased to 3, make them slightly faster, but also make it so that Survivors can take them down stealthily.
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I mean, I would argue PH and Demo aren't weak to be fair. Demo may not be quite viable for the top level of play but still.
I do think the hitbox can be a bit wonky at times, but in general the fact that it's not very wide just means you'll have to aim better. It's definitely a good thing seeing as how fast you can shoot it, so survivors do need some chance to avoid the attack. If it was as wide as demos shred or Pyramid Head's attack, it would be almost undodgeable, and that wouldn't be good.
His chase potential is definitely similar in strength to Pyramid Head and a bit better than Demo in my opinion, but he still has a bit more proper counterplay than Pyramid Head because his ability has such a narrow hitbox.
And yes, it's true that Demo has mobility and PH can cage people, but on the other hand, survivors might want to vaccinate against Nemesis, which wastes a bit of their time, and he has two zombies roaming the map that can apply some extra map pressure for Nemesis.
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TBH I played him and while he doesn’t feel completely weak, it feels like you gotta stay on the survivors behind because his power has such a short range… and even after that his powers ends up feeling like a chore, rather than rewarding.
Which is why I’ve started to just punch people first, force them to drop the pallet just to infect them, and then leave them and go for someone else unless I have my T2.
He ends up feeling a bit like Plague, except for you need better aim because his power has a very narrow hitbox.
Idk, I have fun with him, but they should have given him a rocket launcher as an added power. He ends up suffering from map pressure like many killers.
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His power's hitbox could be twice the size and T3 max range could be 8m (so+3m) and he'd be a solid A tier.
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I wouldn't mind if they increased the range a bit, although I do personally believe it is fine the way it is now. But I disagree with doubling the hitbox size, seeing as how fast he can whip out his tentacle, it should have a small hitbox. Otherwise, they'll just end up decreasing the speed at which you can attack with Nemesis tentacle.
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not even close
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I think he's decent but not the strongest of the killers. His design will do well in the right hand but it's not going to carry anyone beyond their actual skill level.
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I'm guessing you haven't played the ptb yet, so I can understand your confusion here. But you CAN hit survivors over pallets and vaults at tier 1 already. You gain the ability to break pallets at tier 2.
I am going to argue that if you lose three gens during the first chase though, then you've probably messed up quite a bit during that chase, unless you are playing a killer that doesn't have a power that helps in chases. This is also why spreading damage is pretty helpful in most situations.
And since Nemesis can hit over pallets, windows, or other low objects, hitting a survivor 3 times isn't all too hard either. Though I would suggest not chasing the first survivor you get a hit on immediately, unless there is reason to believe no other survivor is nearby.
If a survivor is unhooking in front of you, you don't need to use his ability, just hit him normally and chances are the rescuing survivor won't get to another pallet or window in time.
Plague can hit survivors over pallets and windows, but if they don't cleanse she can't down survivors with her puke except for one time when she uses her default pool. So if they are one shot, you won't have the ability to down them with your puke. If survivors are constantly one shot, she is nothing but an M1 killer. Her puke does go further distances, but on the other hand, you have to hit them repeatedly with your puke in order to injure them, unless of course you have your special power. Nemesis just whips out his tentacle and gets a hit. He also doesn't have to waste time going to a fountain in order to down survivors with his power, not to mention the fact that his power being able to down isn't dependent on survivors. The time it takes to release his attack is also much less then the time it takes to charge up Plagues puke attack.
Last but not least, Nemesis has two zombies that help him apply map pressure. So in general I disagree, I believe Nemesis is definitely stronger than Plague. Plague not being A tier we agree on. But I feel like Nemesis will be A tier, or at the very least B+.
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I played mainly survivor during the PTB. Nemesis was no threat at all. His whip has a wonky hitbox and is very easy to avoid.
The examples of 3 gens going by the first hook is from my solo survivor matches.
People see the zombies as a strong side power. But on most maps they will just be something to mainly ignore or disable by using a flashlight.
He's not a strong killer. I'm getting release Freddy vibes from him. Where everyone thought he's OP, while he was one of the weakest killers.
But we'll see.
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The hitbox on his right clock is terrible. Survivors can just run back toward you to avoid it, leaving you in a cooldown and making more distance. There needs to be an AOE of like a meter with the right click to keep Survivors from running toward Nemesis to avoid his attack.
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IMHO, he is fine.
People seem to overuse his power for some dumb reason. Increasing his tiers isn't as important either, they are just a bonus, especially t3, which increases his power range by 20%. Sure, it is just 6 meters instead of 5, but can come in handy.
The thing is survivor being infected makes them vulnerable to his m2, which allows him to punish vaults, pallet plays and some wonky small walls. It is on a very quick cast, thus leaving very small dodging window for the survivor. Trying to aim his ability as with PH is silly. Other than that m1 is the way, as STBFL works really nicely on him.
Him.being able to quickly use his power also gives him built in zoning capability just by existing, just like Deathslinger but not as oppressive and cheap.
When compared to the plague, his m2 on a survivor without contamination is like Plague's vile puke, but instead of inflicting broken status it makes them vulnerable to ranged attacks (short, but still). Vaccinating is also limited and not as "helpful" to survivors, as it doesn't fully heal them back (at least it didn't heal me).
This makes him actually more of a threat in chase than plague that is denied her corrupted puke.
Zombies also provide quite a bit of information and in their current state can snowball you with a bit of rng.
I think he is fine, some small tweaks could be made (i.e. anti blue balling him, just like with a plague), his addons are a mixed bag, as always, some more rare ones are utter useless crap outclassed by an empty slot.
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He's average at best. His power's like Pheads but can't hit through walls
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To me, and i've already extensively expressed it, he's not strong at all and due to him being a mixed bag of mechanics i don't see why i'd use him over Pyramid Head or Demo, even facturing potential Zombie downs i don't like it, Zombies are RNG in a game that already has tremendous amounts of RNG, as a Survivor i don't feel it's fair the killer getting Random free pressure or stalling a loop so that he has a 2v1 advantage, i don't understand the thought process behind Nemesis design as a killer. Mad props on integrating AI bots in DbD but the Zombies specifically i think they should stay out and we should make Nemesis himself better by lowering the pre requirements for him to get to use his power or make the gains from the slow process be worth it.
To me he is weakest Licensed killer because he lacks focus, there isn't a single aspect of Nemesis that he does better than any other killer nor is any of his abilities something new. Shorter range, ranged hit's have a pre requirement, his power up has a pre requirement and both can be dictated by Survivors, the pre requirement does not harm Survivors in any capacity and the alternative is too time consuming.
His perks are terrible, they require going through manny hoops and the aura perk is laughable, one time use with duration of 7 seconds that only high mobility killers can use, such as Nurse, Spirit or Billy but there's always the same counter play, SpineChill lets you know killer is coming, Object of Obsession will reveal the killer, Iron will will allow you to effectively hide in a bush for example and leave the killer wondering where you went after those 7 seconds and since the killer can't chase everyone that means somebody is still free to do gens, totems, etc. I do not see myself using any of these perks on any killer.
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He's decent and I'll definitely be playing a lot of him but I don't think he's incredibly strong.
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He's definitely not the best Killer. Far from it.
Based on what I've seen and played against, he is B tier at his strongest. Above average. His ability to deal with vaults is nice, but he's still very easy to loop and mindgame. You can deny him his power for a long time by playing conservatively. People mention his ability to break pallets with his power, but the cooldown on that is actually nearly the same as a standard pallet break animation, so he's not making THAT much more progress than if he stopped and broke it. The recovery for his power is punishing, allowing the Survivor to make some good distance that SHOULD allow them to get to a new tile before he can catch up. Just don't run into deadzones. Also, his vertical lock during his aim makes him an easy victim of big spins.
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Its not about the cooldown speed, its the ability to continue slowly moving and look around, you can use this to zone the survivor at loops that are isolated and prevent them from instantly Shift W-ing to a new tile.
Every other killer in the game is stuck in place when they break a pallet, Nemesis can do it from the other end of a loop.
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Demo with Addons is still faster. He can also get to the pallet faster.
While Nemesis is still moving when he lashes a pallet, the amount distance he gains compared to other Killers is rather slight. It COULD be beneficial and lead to a hit others would not have made, but it's not definitive. My point is that while it's certainly a benefit for Nemesis, I think some people are severely overrating how much of a benefit it is. I also definitely feel some people are viewing Nemesis through rose tinted glasses. I'm NOT a fan of Resident Evil. I played RE3, beat it, and know the game and character, but I'm by no means in love with it. I can't even say I like it. So to me, Nemesis is a Killer in DBD and not the big icon he is to other people.
I'm not looking for how strong he is, I'm looking for is he strong? Thus far, based on my time in the PTB looping him for 3-5 gens, my answer is "above average". He's stronger in some scenarios, weaker in others, and from what I have seen, is getting a lot of high praise despite being nothing particularly special. He's huge, so he's easy to see over obstacles, making him easy to loop and mindgame. His lash has a fairly short distance and a long recovery, making it easy to bait a lash and capitalize on a whiff. His lash does not go through walls like Pyramid Head, so baiting him into whiffing at a window is pretty safe so long as you are comfortable with juking. From what I have SEEN (ie: Needs more testing), his lash is a sensor box that uses hit scan to determine a positive hit, so ducking below low obstacles causes a whiff. I simply don't find him hard to counter. If he goes live and full perk loadouts and time behind the driver seat cause him to end up being stronger than I thought, cool. I'm willing to change my mind and see him in a more favorable manner if I'm proven wrong.
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The Zombies can't be ignored near gens though. Which is how they can apply some map pressure. Not to mention the fact that they can help Nemesis locate survivors.
Many people probably aren't that good with Nemesis yet, though fair enough, that can also be said about survivors going against Nemesis. Nevertheless, I still think he is pretty strong, his whip ignores pallets and windows and that's pretty damn powereful, even with the limited range. His hitbox does need a bit of looking into, it certainly has it's problems, but in general it worked fairly well for me while playing him.
I still believe however that if a killer loses 3 gens during the first chase, it's because he probably messed up a few times, or simply got outplayed. I am not the biggest fan of this, but the simple fact is that the first chase is aguably the most important one. That desn't mean the game is unbalanced, it's just arguably a design flaw. Even if 3 gens do get repaired, after the first hook the killer starts getting more pressure, and that's how the killer starts slowing the game down.
On the other hand, the Mori changes sound like they will add a second objective for survivors, which I could imagine will slow things down a bit, so if Nemesis isn't A tier, perhaps they are already thinking about those changes as well when balancing their killers. I don't know, we'll have to see, but so far Nemesis seems pretty promising to me.
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Zombies can be disabled by flashlight stunning them. Or wasting a pallet on them. Since they are RNG they are not really pressuring the area you would like to have pressure on.
The clip collection above showed survivors getting unhooked in front of the killer without BT. Do i need to say more?
Killers losing 2 or 3 gens before the first hook isn´t the fault of the killer. Its just survivors hugging gens. Killer can only chase 1 survivor and unless the other 3 survivor are idle, they will complete gens. Killer takes 20 or 30 seconds until he finds the first survivor. Lets say 20 seconds for the first hit (i´m being very generous btw.) and another 20 seconds for the second hit. Picking the survivor up and hooking takes 5 seconds. Walking to the hook another 10-15 seconds. Totals 75 to 90 seconds. A single survivor needs 80 seconds at most to repair a gen and since survivors usually spawn next to a gen, they instantly start repairing them.
While sure, the killer has to control less gens, survivors are also more likely to repair the other gens in coop. Meaning that they reduce the repair time by half.
The mori changes sound like the killer needs to jump through several tires. They probably require the killer to get 10 hooks and only allow him to mori the last survivor.
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Could you please tell me where in the clip do survivors get unhooked without BT? Because the only clip I see is where both of them go down immediately after that.
Wasting a pallet on them means you've just wasted a pallet on the zombies. Not to mention that does waste a bit of your time as well, because you first have to lead them to pallets. flashlighting takes less time, but they are only stunned. It's true that rng plays a role here, but it's not a rarity that they pressure survivors off of gens.
I've been playing Nemesis a lot in the ptb, with his perk that reveals the auras of all survivors at the beginning. Only once did they all spawn seperate from each other, and still not all next to a gen. If you want to consider the time it takes for a killer to find a survivor, you also have to take into consideration the time it takes survivors to find a seperate gen. And while they'll do that, they'll probably have to hide from the killer as well when he gets close to where the survivor is. 20 seconds for each hit seems kind of realistic, though normally you'll be able to get a first hit on a survivor before that, but that does depend on when the survivors starts running away, what kind of gen the survivor is at, and what loops there are in the survivors vicinity. But 20 seconds seems fair, when talking about killers that have abilities that help in chases, but of course that can vary depending on the map and it's layout. I'm not going to argue that a map like Fractured Cowshed is balanced.
5 seconds to pick up a survivors is right as well, the time it takes to carry a survivor varies a lot. Sometimes it's only a few seconds, sometimes it can be longer.
If the survivor team is optimal, you can normally expect two gens to pop, but if you outplay the survivor in the first chase, you should be able to prevent the third gen to being repaired. That's not considering the fact that the chased survivors might have to run somewhere where a survivors is repairing one of the gens though.
The last two gens get repaired in coop, true, but that also means you can chase off multiple survivors off of one gen. The less gens, the better for the killer. However, that's not the only aspect. Hooking survivors itself slows the game down because now survivors have another objective to complete. One survivor is on the hook, while another one has to go for the rescue.
Yeah, highly doubt it. Like, why would they do that? Moris aren't very strong right now, I doubt they'll make them weaker like that. They talked about survivors being able to engage with the system as well, which sounds like they'll have another objective to complete, which would prevent moris, probably by delaying them. Not sure how killers can affect the moris, but my hope is by hooking every survivor once or something like that, to discourage tunneling and camping.
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This video just dropped.
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Just give him a dash to quickly move around the map every 40-50 seconds but at the cost of a 2-3 second stun after stopping. That way he can pressure gens and he'd be perfect.
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Yes, I saw the video. And again, in my time playing with Nemesis, I believe this only happened once. All the other matches multiple survivors spawned together.
Survivors all spawning seperate is a problem though, that's true.
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