How would you rework No Mither?
Personally, I would rework it to make the survivor start the trial healthy, then be unable to be healed in the injured state. The broken status effect will show to other survivors, but not to the killer. This is a basic rework idea that I'm sure others have thought of as well.
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I like that idea actually, it wouldn't make it in such a way the killer would tunnel someone, but just think they are normally injured and not healing. It would really make it a decent perk to run sadly not always run, but really cool nonetheless!
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I honestly always hated the "YoU sTaRt OfF hEaLtHy" idea because that just doesn't make it No Mither, No Mither is a stealth perk that has a huge downside. For people like me who sometimes use it with Resilience, how am I going to use Resilience at the start of the trial, because that's what it has going for it and it shouldn't be taken away. I'm sorry if I sounded angry, I just hate how often people spread this idea, and I just hate this idea for a rework.
My idea is to make it remove grunts of pain by 150% (so not even Stridor can detect it), and it allows actions not related to gens or exit gates (healing, sabotage, unhooking, vaulting, and chest searching) to be sped up by 15% (so it fits in more with King's perks of the guy in chase with Dead Hard, and it does Altruistic actions better for WGLF)
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No Mither isn't much of a stealth perk. Iron Will completely outclasses the less noise aspect and Lucky Break does the same to blood trails - less time but better effect. No Mither's most prominent aspect is the infinite pickups - as made obvious on how all other self-pickup perks have far more limited conditions on when survivors are able to do it - and that function is immediately hamstringed by the perk announcing itself the second the killer loads into the game, so nobody with a brain is going to leave a No Mither user on the ground unless they're memeing.
"Start out healthy" isn't an unfair demand when it's the only way this perk isn't going to immediately shoot itself in the foot. If you want a stealth build, No Mither is not your cornerstone.
Your rework sounds like a decent perk, but it's removing the utility that half the players who do run No Mither use it for because you personally don't use it like that. Which... may be a result of that being useless on account of, again, the immediate injury destroying that part of the perk. (But it's a tossup on whether I see it in Resilience builds or whether I see it in Tenacity/Unbreakable builds... or when I see someone with it who's just yoloing and showing off just how confident they are about chases, but usually people who run NM do so with a plan.)
(And no, not being immediately injured doesn't break NM/Resilience builds, it just means you don't get Resilience straight off the bat.)
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No Mither isn't a stealth perk, it's a hard mode perk. The only reason why it has 50% quieter grunts and no blood pools is to make it more "worthy" and less risky of running.
I do like your idea though.
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The hidden broken effect I think makes the perk ridiculous. Without the killer knowing you have No Mither, they have to presume that anyone not healing, has it, meaning they just... aren't allowed to snowball at all.
If you want it to be hidden, the pickup has to go.
Then there's the blood effect, which would be fine... if Twins didn't exist.
2 effects need to go, so all you're left with is IW 1.
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Well good idea but i can not see point of killer can not see. He will understand when he get you down with one hit. But i think yes, starting full health will make this perk good.
I think killer has to see this survivor injured, not broken. So killer will think this survivor did not healed. I think that can solve problem.
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I would take away the ability to pick yourself up (it's usually just abused with glitches and hacks anyway)
Take away the effect it has on grunts of pain and blood trails
Add a 100% bonus bp effect after the trial
I'm short a hard mode perk in exchange for an escape cake
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right, and calm spirit has to go because doctor exists. except that's never happened.
no mither being a counterperk against twins is extremely fine, and arguably intended. some killers just have counterperks and that's what makes dbd interesting.
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By that logic, the killer can't slug because they have to presume everyone has to have Unbreakable. Or Soul Guard, if they're running a hex.
It doesn't work like that. A perk that doesn't let you heal will never be meta, so the killer doesn't have to assume anything - they just do as they always do and figure out what perks the survivors have through context clues. Besides, Unbreakable is already meta, so it's not like this changes very much about the risk/reward of slugging except for that if a survivor's already picked themselves up once, there's no hexes in play, and they aren't healing themselves, you might still have to worry about further pickups. But that comes with the tradeoff that that survivor is going to be a perpetual one-tap, which is more than fair.
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A perk countering a killer directly is just not healthy for the game. A Doctor shouldn't have his tracking on a survivor deleted by a perk without running a specific addon.
Calm Spirit only still exists due to BHVR only recently coming to this understanding with Slippery Meat & Small Game.
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I phrased the 1st part a bit weirdly, so i'll rephrase it. No Mither's counter, would be playing bad, that's not a counter, at least Unbreakable only goes off once & you know its gone, even though you might have had a win taken from under you, you know for a fact, it's gone. SG deletes this problem if the killer has a Hex up & so would this No-Mither change, since you cant know they have it until it's too late. So you have to either play bad by playing around it... or play bad by not playing around it.
People already don't heal to begin with and against certain killers its encouraged, or forced. Being 1-shot doesnt mean anything if you can get to a pallet. This is why most exposed perks aren't good, why Myers isnt good. If you can loop well, it doesnt mean that much unless you're caught out of position. You also are only insta-downed forever, past your 1st chase with this change.
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I wouldn’t rework it at all.
I like challenge, and I like the unique builds and strategies No Mither can offer via its big risk and reward concept.
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The main change I'd make to No Mither is to make it so if you haven't been hit in the last 45 seconds against Oni you don't spawn blood orbs.
No perk should kill your entire team by just existing like No Mither can against Oni.
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It’s a stealth perk, just not a top tier one.
If the killer has any lapse of concentration by accidentally leaving a No Mither user downed, the killer will have much more of a challenge finding them (without Deerstalker) if they crawl off first, which is exactly what a No Mither player should be doing if they’re downed.
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"No Mither isn't much of a stealth perk. Iron Will completely outclasses the less noise aspect and Lucky Break does the same to blood trails - less time but better effect."
Just because a perk gets outclassed, doesn't mean it shouldn't be classified. I say No Mither is prominently a Stealth Perk because 2 out of 4 of it's abilities (a.k.a. Half) are stealth related (no Blood, which in my opinion is better than Lucky Break as it lasts the entire trial, which is longer than 45 seconds; and the mediocre less grunting), while 1 of the effects is recovery and the other is being permanently broken. No Mither is 1/2 Stealth Based, 1/4 Recovery, and 1/4 Broken, because of it being half Stealth I consider it a Stealth perk.
"but it's removing the utility that half the players who do run No Mither use it for because you personally don't use it like that."
I don't see how adding 150% less grunting and 15% more action speed is removing the utility, was it an error on my post that didn't specify that this isn't what the perk is only going to do and that it still retains the effects of No Mither? (What I mean is that No Mither will still make you broken, allow you to not leave blood, and allow for infinite pickups, but also add 150% less grunts of pain and 15% action speed)
I'm a bit tired so I might not have the best words, but I just really don't want No Mither to lose it's effect of starting off healthy because then I think the perk wouldn't be special and I think there should at least be one perk in the game that has you start off injured (because it allows for creative builds). Honestly, I actually like No Mither where it is right now, I just suggested those changes as I thought it'd be the best solution to buff No Mither (to get people to stop asking for a buff every month) while keeping it's special attribute of being permanently injured.
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I wouldn't. It's made to be a hardmode Perk. You're not meant to get use out of the dying recovery.
All I would do is increase the grunt reduction to 60/70/80% because needing to run Iron Will just to have a stealth playstyle with it is stupid. I'm already wasting an entire Perk slot to turn on hardmode as is.
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I would completely rework No Mither to fit in with David’s aggressive, protective playstyle.
Essentially, you take a hit for your teammate and for the next minute or so, you have Iron Will and stun the Killer for 50% longer with a pallet (which is a 3-second stun).
Not that strong, but it sounds pretty fun in my head.
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True, I do like the concept of a hard mode perk.
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No Mither already does compliment David’s intended aggressive play style.
No Mither was the original anti-tunnel/anti-camp perk before DS and BT were introduced.
Someone camping the hook? You’re meant to rush in, DH to avoid the killers first attempt at stopping you, get them off the hook and expect to them go down. Now the killer is in a position where they’re allowing you a free revive if they don’t pick you up and instead choose to tunnel who was unhooked. Obviously most killers won’t let you do that, so now although you’ve hook traded, you’ve still given your team mate another chance at the game.
Someone being tunnelled? Same story. Run in and take one for the team. Again the killer is stuck with the awkward position of knowing they cannot ignore you and come back to you later.
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I- whaaa?
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David and his perks fill the slot of the horror cliche, and playing the fantasy of “dying a hero”.
The reason the killer is meant to know you have No Mither is so that you can make plays that help your team by going down for them, and making it so the killer can’t ignore you, or they’ve downed you for nothing. If the killer leaves you on the ground, they know they can’t just come back for you later.
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The idea is nice, but I seriously don’t think that’s a valid reason to keep the perk as sad and useless as it is currently. It would be a missed opportunity to not change it to better fit the “die a hero” playstyle. I think if we took that mindset to reworking the perk, it would be a lot cooler. And, just so everyone’s happy in the end, turn No Mither’s original effect into a secret offering for Survivors that ACTUALLY yields extra bloodpoints for running it.
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