Nemesis is a D tier, bottom 5 killer.

You should never be infecting a survivor out in the open , always do it at pallet loop with the survivor on the outer trqck of the loop , even with the speed boost they become in range of your next ten-tickle strike very quickly

I mean... Otz also has a 25 win streak on Nemesis on the second day of playing him, something he struggled to do with many other killers. What does he have for him? A power that forces you into binary decisions (damned if you do, damned if don't), if play properly. On certain loops, survivors just go down to his power. If a survivor drops a pallet, the tentacle will prioritize the survivor which is great unlike Blight's power.

He has a lingering hitbox on his power that many do not know of nor do they take advantage of. His zombies occasionally pushes survivors off of objectives, facecamps survivors, or wombo combo's survivors on loops. They also sometimes give info on where survivors are.

I've played my fair share of Nemesis as well and I certainly think he's better than Trickster, Legion, Myers, Clown, and Pig. I'd put him in lower B tier with Demo. I feel like he's underrated like Demo and requires to some time to be decent at before you can appreciate him. Any killer that can shut down loops and break pallets with his power is already out of C tier.

Like many others, I feel like his first infection should not give survivors a speed boost. This would greatly help his early game.

When they remove the Sprint Burst from an infection hit, it'll be worth using your power more on healthy survivors. In other words you won't be relying as much on hitting the zombies with your power to tier up.

The fact that the zombies are inconsistent in getting downs is imo not really a problem. I found that the tracking potential of the zombies is actually where your true benefits lie. Again though, the AI needs to be improved so it doesn't just casually take a stroll in places where gens are completed or just pays a visit to the corner of the map.

Maybe an interesting idea is to tackle both problems is by allowing the killer himself to choose where the zombies go to. Let them mark 2 spots on the map where zombie A and zombie B go to. Zombies will be more usefull AND it's a strategical choice if you do get a down, you're being rewarded for your skill rather than just lucky.

i mean i dono if i'd put him A or B tier but bottom 5? neah.

For one you're overselling how good holding W is, something that works against... 20ish killer on the roster?

Also something about the zombies i've noticed is that YES they land hits fairly rarely, but i've gotten alot of value out of zombies from suvivors just realizing one is somewhere around / within the LT wall / Jungle Gym and just leaving the loop... allowing me to get a hit in the open on the way to the next tile

Also the zombie were buffed form beta and provide more mutation, and there are also addons for getting extra mutation of them.

Overall yeah, i'd put him around PH level, weaker, sligthly, different really. PH can hit through walls, but i feel his power is way harder to controll since you're locked into only being able to move with W, also there's a reactable delay on PH's wave, tentacles are much faster. PH counters hook perks, sometimes but zombies provide some info / map pressure. But if you put PH around the top of A tier i'd put Nem bottom of A tier / high B.

And if that stupid backasswards hindered speed boost (u wut mate?) on infection get's removed... ow boy

Plus he's honestly just awsome visually i feel, his run, kick, carry, break and hook animations are all unique. Gives him some personallity compared to the rest of the roster i feel. Maybe bhvr would look into giving other killers some unique animations , like nurse could just ... telekinetically carry you around or something

Maybe its just me, but when i play Nemesis i get destroyed most of the time. When See otz playing, he easy Kills much better survs then i was facing. I think he is just not my type of Killer. I cannot say what tier Killer he is. I hope that i get used to him some day.

The zombies dominate in indoor maps because survivors don't have many places to run to. With that being said, I'm assuming you think they're useless in outdoor maps and while they aren't as promising, they can and will pester you off of a gen and there's nothing you can do about it other than trying to lead them away & bug them out on an object. I've noticed a lot of Nemesis players run Ruin because it's extremely useful as the gen you were on is regressing while you're trying to lead the zombie away.

Base Nemesis with Tier 1 is very weak compared to Pyramid Head, but as his power gets stronger throughout the match, he is definitely better than Pyramid Head, even if it's only by a smudge. Nemesis can easily bait survivors into his tentacle and if they throw down pallets early, can get it out of the way at the same speed. Pyramid Head on the other hand is way different because an early pallet drop and shift+w means trouble as you've now just lost a massive amount of distance.

Obviously his map mobility is worthless, he has none. As for the map info/and pressure, they are definitely useful. A survivor getting f*cked over by a zombie as well as being hit by killer instinct from a vaccine can be the difference between a free escape or not. Knowing a survivor is on a certain part of the map, especially if it's near a gen is valuable info as you'll know what they're doing and what they're probably going to do next. That's like saying the killer instinct from Victor is useless even though you can put him in some pretty jacked spots to keep track of the survivors.

Like I said, he needs a buff to where this doesn't happen.

Nemesis can track infected survivors by their coughing, which isn't a huge plus, but it's there give or take. Not as good as Plagues though. As for Myers, he's going to spend a very small amount of time in stealth unless he has addons specifically for that. Not to mention, a survivor going behind objects and cutting corners efficiently is his #1 counterplay, just like how playing safe & staying at jungle gyms is Oni's counterplay. Don't act like Nemesis's power is so easy to avoid if it's the same scenario for other killers as well. It's the same as the shift+w argument, most killers have that problem.

Do I think Nemesis is as good as a Demon Dashing Oni or a Tier 3 Myers? Hell no. But do you want to know the difference between the 3? While Myers and Oni have to build up their power just like Nemesis, their power is also limited throughout the entire match and has to be earned time and time again, compared to Nemesis when once he has it, he has it the whole game and doesn't have to repeat the repetitive process of having to do this and that just to get it back. That's what makes his power weaker but more efficient because not only is it easy to earn, but it's available the entire match once obtained.

Sure again, the thing about PH is that vs a good survivor you kinda MUST shoot it throgh walls, as it's fairly easy to dodge within the survivors LOS. The only time your hitting on PH is either in animation lock or through walls. Also i feel his power slows you down more on a miss. Nem on the other hand is ... relatively speaking quite easy to land, on survivors actively trying to dodge it in the open. I think the projectile is even faster than DS's, on par with like a Victor Pounce.

And ye the hitting multiple survivors is a plus... a plus i feel comes up about as often as a zombie hitting a survivor.... What it's reaaaaally good at is closing out games on the last two survivors trying to save in front of you...

100% Nem's biggest weakness is the whole tripple M2 thing, personally i tend to just M1 survivors to get them off the gen and to a loop then M2 them within the loop itsself. Vaccines are a bummer but fairly limited. Between Corrupt, Lethal Pursuer, BBQ, Thrilling Tremors, Tinkerer, Discordance, Surveillance etc. you can burn through them quite quickly.

I kind of agree with you that he's a monster in chase, if you get to a loop you're basically done for and you're forced to just run in a straight line or else you die. I don't agree that there are too few vaccines, I've mostly ended my matches with a few vaccines to spare honestly. He's better than Pyramid Head if you decide to loop him.

I think he's way better than people think he is but he's still probably not as good as PH. That may change tho when people get good at him because I think his tentacle has potential to be better than PH's shockwave attack.

I can't agree that he's a bottom 5 killer.

The zombies may be weak but they give you free tracking on where survivors are. The infected survivors cough a lot so they can't hide near you. He can break pallets very quickly also.

Mid tier maybe but not bottom 5. I would like to see a few buffs to him though.

I'm not exaggerating at all, it takes way more than 5 seconds to bait them out to an object because of how ridiculously slow they are, and there's no guarantee they're going to get bugged. They'll end up pestering you at the gen again. I've had it happen to myself more times than I can count, you're downplaying it way too much.

Except.. I did? Read this again: "Nemesis can easily bait survivors into his tentacle and if they throw down pallets early, can get it out of the way at the same speed. Pyramid Head on the other hand is way different because an early pallet drop and shift+w means trouble as you've now just lost a massive amount of distance." If you still don't get it, it means Nemesis can get pallets out of the way by baiting compared to Pyramid Head who has a much larger CD for baiting as well as no pallet breaking included in his power. Shift+w is a lot stronger against Pyramid Head than it is Nemesis. I think the only thing that is better than Nemesis is his Punishment of the Damned.

While I agree with this, info isn't always going to be across the map. It's heavily dependent on the survivors but if they vaccinate right next to you, you'd know. I say this is still useful no matter the situation because other killers simply do not have it, and if I know someone vaccinated near a gen, you best know I'm going to go check on that gen. It's better than nothing.

Once again, I partially agree but a good Nemesis baits his power just like Pyramid Head (which brings me back to my point from earlier) and most survivors wouldn't get away with a shift+w because of it, given he can break pallets with his power and be right back on the chase.

At the end of the day, everyone has their own opinions and while I personally think the trade-off is worthwhile, but you might not. Killers are subjective because it mainly relies on that persons playstyle which is why I can understand why people such as yourself think he's weak. But as I've said before, with a few minor buffs he can become top-tier, but that doesn't make him dirt-tier now. A lot of people in this thread seem to agree with that.

Most Ghostfaces wont go for that stalk for three reasons (me included when I do play him).

Number one, Spinechill exists and is highly rated. Not every survivor uses it but its prevalent enough to not take the chance and instead walk sideways to the survivor, which leads me onto my second point, his cooldown.

Due to his high cooldown for his power if you dont land that sneaky first hit then you're in big trouble as you are now an M1 killer that needs two hits. And if you do get it back in chase, then you're after wasting so much time for that second hit.

Finally, like mentioned slightly above, he's an M1 killer. Even if you expose the survivor, you have very little to help you in the chase. And as long as that survivor is beside a good loop or two, you're unlikely to get that hit off unless they're poor at the game or you are using a 99 tactic which doesnt even work that well against great survivors.

A killer with a chase power will almost always be better than a killer with no chase power like GF.

His zombies are bad without the detection add on, and so is he without his mutation rate add on. Slap those two add ons on and if you can be precise, I don’t see many flaws in chase.

i just made a discussion about it, but they’ve got to make a slightly weaker version of the add on base kit, as well as the detection rate being added onto it. Remove sprint burst from infection or make it so that you can injure + infect at the initial hit, you have 3-4 changes that make him into a really strong killer.

He’s just mediocre without the add-ons, but just like we’ve seen in the past, all they probably need to do is integrate his two best add ons (said perks because I’m half asleep). into his base and there you go.

I’ve played 20-30 matches in red ranks, as well as maybe 10-15 as survivor against him. I did lose games, as I consider those 2ks. Out of the them let’s say 30, 5-6 were 2k’s. The rest were either 3k’s and 4K’s weren’t an infrequent scene either.