Any other nice SWF players tired of the constant bashing?
There are quite a few of you who, thankfully, know that swf isn't always the real problem. Of course the "swat squads" or whatever term people call them are the worst and most dreadful of all survs.
But anyone else just play around with their friend(s)? Sitting in a corner, chucking a pebble at them so you can laugh as they take off running and swear revenge? Hook diving because "Nooo! Matt has been killed two games in a row, I will not let there be a third time!" Then both of you get hooked and he calls you a tosser? Or something.
It feels like every day, someone is trying to neuter the ability to just chill with your mates. Solo queue just feels so tedious and tense in comparison, and I don't think I'd play the game much longer if that's all it offered me.
Comments
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When the arguments get boiled down, being upset with “SWFs” is just being upset with “good players making good plays.”
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The issue is, that you can't balance around the rare occasions its some guys tying to troll each other. I do that a lot with my friends but we expect to lose is the thing. SWF does have some issues that need addressing or just making it easier to identify if it is a SWF. The biggest issue is that you won't know if it is a sweat squad or a guys having fun, and the thing is sometimes people who sweat are having fun with their friends.
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People wouldn't complain about SWF, if the game was balanced around it.
Instead of being balanced around low rank solo survivors.
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Well it is the same for killer like me that go out of their way to avoid any form of camping and tunneling and only slug to avoid an early kill before 8 hooks were done.
I also have to read on a daily basis that every last killer is a toxic jerk that uses the above mentioned strategies and so on.
Just like teabagging, head nodding and so on we have to ignore this stuff and not feel addressed by it ourselves.
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Honestly right on. I'm sick of each side bashing each other in general. Surv main did this, killer main did that and it's all so, so exhausting.
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Considering the supposed kill rate, sweat squads are actually the rare occasion.
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Where is the data that shows that the game is balanced around low rank solo survivors? I often hear this so I am genuinely intrigued.
The game isn't balanced around low rank solo survivors, because if it was playing killer would be a lot harder than it is now.
Killers don't need to be balanced around SWF because they already do well against SWF.
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Yeah I am. I play with 3 buddies and two are atrocious at the game. They go down instantly but we come on to have fun. There is zero sweat from us but lately it’s been an awful experience.
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Yup. I've had many killers complain about swf in end game chat even though me and at least 1 other survivor was queued up solo.
SWF is just used as an excuse for when killers lose.
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Yes, we are a polite, courteous and respectful swf that is considerate of needy killers.
We recognize the challenges that killers face, it's why we cut the time that we spend looping a killer, we no longer loop them for days but for half a day.
We also limit the amount of times that we can flashlight spam them into heaven and only teabag in moderation.
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I honestly think it stems from killer mains who don't have friends to play with and get frustrated trying survivor solo queue.
This is just a hypothesis mind you. If I only ever played killer and solo queue survivor I would be extremely unhappy and take it out on those having fun.
Now all that being said when I play with my friends they are pretty cocky and sometimes disrespectful to killers and I cringe because I don't condone such behaviors from either side but what can you do?
Not all swf are evil though just like not all killer players are either. At the end of the day it's a human playing the game on all ends so everyone needs to try and be more respectful to one another yada yada. No one will listen to this anyways carry on
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I think there should be an option for no SWF lobbies in the settings for killers! It’s ridiculous somtimes. Sometimes it’s not even a fair fight. Having friends tell each your position at all times? Way to powerful and unfair!
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Because people who just want to enjoy playing with their friends should be punished with long queue times, just because killers perceive it to be an issue.
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Game is not balanced around SWF. If you're playing SWF you spawn of evil and should be in jail. No. Really. Do not play SWF
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No one's complaining about nice SWF players.
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C'mere, I want you to follow that idea line with me.
If people see SWF as a problem and don't want to deal with it, they'll turn it off and never back on unless they were prepared to go full SEAL team. Who would they get? Solo survivors, who are the easier targets most of the time. Which means most killers would go for the easier win. So you would get the hardcore killers against solo survivor only, and the baby killers that don't know better than to turn it off against all of the worst SWF out there, which will make them turn it off.
You'd only make both sides unhappy and increase the lobby wait times for everyone involved.
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Oh really? I didn't see the distinction being made. Most of the complaints don't say "SWF SHOULD BE REMOVED OR NERFED (except for the nice ones)!!!!!!"
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Those posts usually go into detail about their complaints with SWF involving imbalance and their frustrations with survivors on comms. What reason would they have to mention the nice players when they're addressing issues that negatively affect the killer side? You should know by now what the issue with SWF is and why it is bashed on constantly. You even mentioned yourself about swat squads being dreadful.
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Those people may have caused the outrage, but they then go on to suggest a change or nerf to the entirety of swf. Trying to get the entire game mode removed or nerfed or saying it's garbage affects the whole of swf and not just the baddies.
Don't get me wrong, I've been there. I'd rather be tunneled and camped than deal with a 4 man swat team. A rude killer is just annoying, a team of 4 rude people trying to piss you off is frustrating. But see, the difference is that I experience that and don't go on to try and ruin or generalize swf. I just call them dicks
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I'd rather go against a "sweat squad" than SWFs like OP describes. People who intentionally don't play the game properly are just wasting my time. Even worse is when I, as solo survivor, gets matched with 3-4man SWFs like this. I report them, but I doubt BHVR would ever punish these kinds of people for ruining matches.
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I've went against 4 SWFs groups as Billy just now. Sweaty, yes. Fun, YES. I barely got a 3k but it was fun trying to micromanage everything against a coordinated team. Teaches you how to play killer much better.
Edit: I'm talking back-to-back, checked friends list and all. Really good teams. Had my Billy looking stupid a few times lol.
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Old dev stats showed that only a small percentage of our matches are played with full 4 man SWF.
Devs said they balance around the majority of the playerbase.
Devs also said that the majority of our players are low ranks. (One of the reasons old ruin was nerfed, was because it was apparently to frustrating for new players)
So by elimination, devs balance around low skill, low rank, solo survivors.
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Do you and your buddies use comms for ingame info sharing and strategizing? Anything like "Let's go save Matt" is already part of the problem. Normal players dont have access to such a rallying verbal option.
"Chilling with my bffs and talking about cute boys, without talking about the trial" -just doesnt happen.
You might have the hint of a point about plyer skill difference. But isnt it nprmal for good players to make better use out of ANY given tool? Let's say 20% bonus for the aversge scrub in comparison to a 70+% bonus for those people who loop pig in their sleep.
Maybe o babbled on too much and should summarize.
"Bad swf" who simply fail to do good or deliberately dont work hard get thrown under the bus because of deathsquads.
Tldr:
Welcome to the top tier killer experience. I bet scrub nurses/billys wouldve loved the coddling scrub swfs get.
No offense.
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Nobody would complain if the game released with voice chat.
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"we just having fun"
meanwhile insta sharing information about what killer is in the game his location possible hex totems you found.
Whats the point of playing a Stealth Killer when you share my location over coms all the time. Its such a huge difference to play against and very frustrating...you should try to play Killer in red ranks....and then tell me you had fun.
The fact that 3 people know the Killer location and just can hold M1 and hide in time if you stop chasing the 4th person is disgusting.
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Swf is and will always be a problem if not balanced. The reason why many killers hate swf its because the extra information they receive. You could fool around the game and bring meme builds but I rarely see that in my games. Its human nature to want to win. Swf knows the location of killers, totems, team mates, which gens are progress, which gens have survivors on them etc. When people mention to add a "no swf option" for killers alot of people get defensive about it because it'll increase their times. That should say something. Nobody likes swf, it either needs to be balanced or add comms to the game and buff killers.
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Because of the amount of complaints about SWFs, it’s so easily misinterpreted that every single SWF is this top tier squad with meta builds, pounding gens and bullying the killer. Because if someone is arguing for SWF to be removed they don’t want to mention the casual SWFs, or even mention the chance they could be solo queue players because I’ve had games in solo queue where we’ve somehow been so coordinated that we easily could have been misinterpreted as SWF. People really forget about the casual SWFs, because we pose no threat to them, we die and escape just as much as we would if we were solo queue players.
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I play with 2 friends on a regular base. We are not good but I notive a huge gape between playing as 3 and playing as 2. The ammount of information ist just that much more helpful. You can try to mimic this effect with Kindred and Bond. However the difference is that in one scenario I have to give up two Perk slots while in the other I can play Deliverance and We are gonna live forever.
If you play against a stealth Killer this can become frustrating for the Killer very fast. Especialy if two survivors communicate who both have Spine Chill. You can almost always tell where the Killer is and who is gonna get chased next. Worsed case: A survivor plays steak out and watches the stealth Killer from a distance. Breaking Ghostface out of stealth constantly or telling them how long Myers was able to stalk.
Even if you are not pinpoint accurate this makes the Killers life much harder. Ghostface looses his power fare more often and Myers gets called out for his Tombstone Piece of Ribbon add-on.
Survivors with friends is a huge step up in difficulty for a Killer.
This is not saying that I do not like to play against them as a Killer or that they should be straight up get nerfed. Most times you do not go against a 4 man team with a discord. Most times it is a 2 1 1, 2 2 or 3 1 lobby. However the difference is there and there is no need to deny it. In a game where time is everything a little bit more communication can give you an edge.
Also not many survivors communicate that much. Hell, me and my two friends do only communicate some rudementary stuff like "I am getting chased here", "Ghostface is over there", "Do not run here", "Killer has Add-On X" and so on. But even with this it become a different atmosphere and that fact should be noted.
Balancewise this is a nightmare for a developer. My suggestion is therefor not to just nerf SWF but to give Killers a note after the match and maybe some points so that you know: That player was just that good and this team had the edge over me because they communicated. That way a Killer can reflect his playstile and make adjustments next time he notices a certain behaivor. It lets the Killers learn and get better that way without nerfing SWF.
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Personally, I´d prefer voice commands. I remember when smite installed a Voice chat program in game and eveybody. Not all the players used that. Many players kept using commands for communication.
Sometimes that voice chat meant more stress and tilted communication, specially if things were bad in the game. But hey, as u said, I wouldn´t complain about it.
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U can´t balance a non competitive game according to the highest skill players like Oracle.
If they´d do that, only Oracle would be able to win a 50% of the times.
Imagine the stats for SWF and solo q . 0% and - 40% win rate.
Of course the devs have to balance the game according to the majority of the players to create a "balanced experience" (50 % WR).
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Me and my swf literally play a drinking night once a week where we mess around. Usually all bring flashlights and mess around with them.
Day after I do the same with my real life mates who aren't as good at the game.
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Its a pvp game. Imagine LoL, R6 or CS would get balanced around Bronze players.
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Matt does need to step his game up
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Sometimes, but I understand the frustration with SWF and can hardly blame people for complaining when survivors are the source of the majority (over 80%, in case someone tries to bring up "there are more survivors than killers!") of the toxicity in the game (in my experience).
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Swf does get blamed for a lot of core game issues. Take for example 4 survivours spawning on 4 different edges of the map with a gen beside them.
Then theres the small minority of swf that talk so much crap post game. Couple of solos are less likely to whine vs the obnoxious loud mouthed swf who still hasent gotten over there icon getting banned. Which is a shame since most post game chats tend to be fun to banter with otherwise.
Even my own swf group plays into this mentality of whinging post game and of course the other team member feel the compulsion to back them up. I really hate the social dynamics of swfs vs the killer role its reinforces so many negative stereotypes. Then you got slimy crap like dcing to give hatch admitadly not that common but when it happens oh boy does it feel crappy.
Time is a major issue for a lot of killers vs swf. The game is more and more starting to balance around swf at the cost of solo queue (which desperatly needs a ping system) .
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Yes, but this game is no competitive. It hasn´t even official rules. Most torunaments create their rules to get a balanced experience. In many of them you can´t repeat killers (if not, we´d only see spirits, nurses and blights). In many tournaments, tunneling and camping is not allowed either till EGC.
I only play Solo Q. How can i get compared to a premade when i can´t even point on a minimap to report a hex totem or communicate by commands: " Claudette, come to rescue"; " killer camping", etc.
It´s like DBD is 3 different games in 1: high performance premades, casual SWF and Solo Q.
My point is, when the devs buff the solo q giving them communication tools, these single players will start to coordinate and approach their level of performance to the SWF.
And is at that point where devs could really balance the game. Because a Clown or a GF probably can´t deal a good premade, but can take 4k on solo q game with no problem.
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It definitely does have official rules, though. You mean it doesn't have arbitrary limitations in place of actually balancing the game (because it's easier to ban stuff from tournaments than it is to just make the game balanced and allow players to use whatever they want and play however they want).
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You don't even need data, just looking at some of the balance changes over the years paints a pretty obvious picture
also, that line about all killers being good against SWF is just straight up false, a good SWF will beat every killer that isn't Nurse, Spirit or Blight pretty much every time
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It doesn´t has to be competitive to balance the game correctly.
A bad player will get better in time.
A good player won´t get better, when the game is balanced around bad players. The skill ceiling simply won´t allow it.
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A bad player will get better in time, yes. But as a game designer, you can accelerate that process. With customized practice maps where you can check the maps and the loops (the new training mode vs IA is a good step).
And at some point I agree with you that you have to balance the game according to the better performance players.....but... game should give players the tools to have good performances. If SWF is the top level of play for survivors, solo Q experience must approach to that level. Give them propper tool communication so they can improve their games and play coordinately.
Nowadays is impossible to balance the game due to this enormous gap between these 2 modalities.
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Yes, that´s what I meant. Thank u.
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All of my friends (literally six people who tried DBD) quit playing because our SWFs so heavily favored the killer we couldn't even get two gens done. I don't know what match making is like now, but it was always a killer who matched me - the most experienced player - and then my three friends just trying to learn the game. It was miserable. It makes me laugh that killers constantly scream about how unfair SWF is.
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The tutorial and the bot matches are a good step in the right direction. The game should be more accessible for newer players by softening the learning curve and the grind.
One way to bring solos on the same level as SWF would be ingame voice chat or a ping system/chat wheel like other games have. (being the ingame voice chat the more efficient one) Once something like that is introduced, the game could be balanced around SWF.
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sure
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This never seems to happen to me.. its either randoms or a group just holding m1 all game and running me as far away from gens as they can making a 20 second chase actually = 40-50 seconds with travel time.
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It gets a little annoying. There's one other person I play with. Neither of us are that great. We don't escape the majority of the time. But neither one of us really care that much. We play because it's a fun game to play with a friend. Well - usually fun. If we run into enough hard campers, or get paired in several back to back games with Killers that are just WAY past our skill level, we dip out for the day.
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Same just here trying enjoy an online game with friends then you receive messages and hate for being swf despite us dying alot of the time we just find it fun to play casually then being told swf ruins their fun no the game ruins your fun by not having a try hard mode and casual mode
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So I am guessing all those Trappers, Pigs, Onis, Wraiths that can face SWF mean nothing? They just lucked out on their wins, no skill was present. Ever. Gotcha.
🙄
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notice the "most of the time" and not "all of the time"
if you're going to be condescending at least read the full comment
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Again, where is the data?
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