What are you supposed to do with Freddy pallets?
I find it weird the amount you can use got nerfed.
When I play with them I feel like I am a killer without power. A lot needs to go down in the match before they can start to be useful and usually by then it's too late. At least before I could pair it with slow-down add ons and get a little out of it.
He always had some terrible add ons and why didn't those get addressed? The add ons that involve skill checks are completely pointless as NOBODY fails skill checks on purpose to wake up anymore. Those might as well be deleted.
If they drop a pallet 60 seconds of blindness. Big deal? This literally does nothing. If I down someone by the time they're unhooked it's worn out. See their aura? Again....so what? 90% of the time you're chasing them what good is that.
Not to mention his Iri add ons are now sooooo bad. 15 seconds of blocked exit gates when they open? So an even worse version of Blood Warden? If you're going to use Blood Warden you plan for it ahead. This add on is just better off not even used. Then his other....start in the dream world. Again BIG DEAL. Skill checks that no one uses to wake up wont work.
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Precisely. This is pretty much what I've been saying ever since he got nerfed. Those changes were bad, and failed to address his actual issues.
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His dream pallets needed to be untouched when he got nerfed. They were SO WEAK and now they're even worse because you have less of them. Because according to a dev "pallets are stronger than snares". It's a joke. It's Hillbilly all over again. Any add-on that makes the killer's power different is either removed or nerfed to be unplayably bad.
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Yeah I've actually gotten bullied trying to use his pallets today. They're absolute trash. What good are fake pallets whehn survivors know to just gen rush me? The fake pallets don't ever come into play. The match isn't long enouhg for it to matter.
They need to take back the stupid limit because its POINTLESS. Then the actual effects need to be tweaked as well.
Like them being hindered if they use the pallets. Or instead of seeing the aura if they drop it I see the aura if they're AROUND it.
The nerf also made the whole "must be asleep" thing really pointless too. His power is hardly a big deal ESPECIALLY the pallets to where they needed some secondary condition on it. Like imagine Trapper or Hag needing to hit someone first or waiting a certain amount of time before their traps could be used. That is Freddy now....
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A sad ending to the one who was once the most fun and unique killer in the game.
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Lose the match I'd imagine
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Freddy nerf hurt him bad in my opinion right now he is one of the worst killer in the game. Unless you like to play a killer with no power he is your men
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Right from the start, I called this too. This won't be the end too they will further nerf his snares. With as much of a joke as the original Freddy was. There was no way they would heavily nerf the NEW Freddy right away. It would make them look bad. So they would wait and slowly give him more and more nerfs like they have. While addressing none of the things that didn't involve nerfs. Like the trash skill check add ons. Ironically the nerf has given him even more add on issues. Some of them are just so pointless now.
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His Iri is actually much better than Blood Warden.
Survivor teams plan for Blood Warden, they don't open the exit gate if there's someone about to go down or get hooked. And you have to have some very precise timing to pull it off, you need to down and hook someone after gates are opened, but before everyone escapes. 9/10 times that's not something that happens. Survivors 99 the exit gates and then open them when everyone is safely within range.
With his Iri, it doesn't matter when they open the exit gates. If they 99 them, then open them as they're being chased but still entirely safe because they're at full health or they have Dead Hard or some-such... they're screwed, they will hit the wall of black barbs when they thought they could safely teabag you at the finish line, and you have 15 entire seconds to down them.
Better yet, you now have someone downed, and hooked... after the gates have been opened. So if you're running Blood Warden too, It basically runs it for you.
As for the other Iri. Starting the trial in the dream world isn't something to sniff at, the 'no wakey on breaky' part is just a small bonus.
Dream Pallets however... I'm with you entirely. They were never his most powerful tool, so they didn't need to be nerfed as much as they were. Dream Pallets don't give you any freedom on shutting down loops, and they're entirely within the survivors control. All they need to do is remember which pallets have been used. Just don't use them, Snares all the way.
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On that first bit, we disagree. OG Freddy was never a joke, and I speak from experience.
But I don't doubt his next changes, if he even gets them, will not be for the best.
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Apparently, pallet Freddy are more powerful than snares 😂
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“He always had some terrible add ons and why didn't those get addressed? The add ons that involve skill checks are completely pointless as NOBODY fails skill checks on purpose to wake up anymore. Those might as well be deleted.”
They do when Freddy is using Dream Pallets. Survivors want to be absolutely sure if Freddy comes over to a gen that they’re not running to fake pallets.
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Pallet Freddy used to be fine where a substantial amount of maps had available set up at the beginning of the match, where survivors haven’t visited those areas yet, making pallets way more effective.
Now because almost all maps require some pallets to be broken before he can start using Dream Pallets, he has no power in the beginning, and it’s effectively pointless when survivors remember which pallets they’ve already thrown down.
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I mean, I could SEE it being part of a build specifically for Blood Warden purposes but other than that I think its pure crap. It basically means you MIGHT get 1 person killed at the exit gate if something very specific happens. Hell, 15 seconds is so short Id wager there are clips out there of a healthy team all going out the gate and having enough time with body blocks to end up all making it out.
The other one is just usch a small bonus overall. It would be like if Doctor had an add on to instantly have 1 survivor start the match in madness 3 or something.
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That timer was just far too much though. That made him so bullyable to good survivors.
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You're telling me that 90% of the times survivors escape from you ISN'T when you're chasing them towards the gate as they or a teammate opens it and they just barely escape?
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Huh? Fail skill checks when using dream pallets? I've never come across a team that does that.
Odds are if they're bothering to check the pallets they're noobs when I play them. Its a total waste to eliminate a pallet and tell your location JUST to see if Freddy has that power.. Just keeping track of general areas makes guessing really simple for them. Combined with them just blazing through gens early so that it can never be that much of an issue later.
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SWF in Australia are hardcore. They don’t leave anything to chance. They’d rather lose 8 seconds of gen progress rather than leave it to chance that they go down at a pallet as that’s more of a set back than a failed skillcheck.
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Usually the hatch. If that happens it was probably a terrible match and the whole team is running out of the gate.
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Learn not to rely on pallets. Adopt new strategies. Improvise, adapt, teabag.
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As someone that uses Freddy a lot, I must say his "nerf" was lip service as it did absolutely nothing. Nor should it, hes a good killer sure but hes def not OP.
As for Pallets, I love them and use them all the time. Yes, blood pools are better, but man are fake pallets fun, maybe youre not doing it right?
Brutal is almost a requirement to get rid of tge pallets. Enduring helps ALOT. Never respect pallets, the survivors will get used to throwing them. Wont take long before they throw them and only find your claws.
Theres 2 builds I run them on:
Pop, bbq, enduring, brutal
This ones not for the feint of heart: tinkerer, nemesis, dark devotion and third seal (you can switch out third seal for trail of torment if you prefer but I like third seal).
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You read the title and nothing else. Right?
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All freddy addon are bad. He can only teleport every minute. The blood pool slow freddy by 15 % and slow the survivor by 15% so you use them or not its basicaly the same. If the survivor are awake you have no power if the survivor wake up with the alarm clock they are immune for 30 sec that mean if you chase them during that time you are a M1 killer with no power and when the 30 second sleeping immunity is gone they only fell asleep 1 minute later.
Explain to me how any of this is good on for him. Before the nerf he was low A tier cause of his kit not cause of his addon.
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Freddy needs dream generators not pallets
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Would it be fine? In Your Freddy Version 3.0 with dream pallets base? Just curious thought it'd fit his lore.
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7 seconds of Transition was fine. Being unable to interrupt survivors during the Transition was the problem. In my idea for a Freddy rework, I suggested the Incapacitated status effect to solve this problem.
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Blood pools fit his lore better. There were blood pools that slowed people down in tge movies, i saw a lot of things in those movies, never once a fake pallet
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I actually suggested an add-on for that:
Black Box:
-Broken pallets are replaced by Dream Pallets
-Non-sleeping survivors cannot see or interact with Dream Pallets
“I can sleep… I just don’t want to” -Dean Russell
At first I thought about making them base kit, but he already has a powerful slowdown and the teleport. I thought it would be a little too much.
But sacrificing an add-on slot for that is okay, in my honest opinion.
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7 seconds of transition was awful and literally broken. One of tge best things they did was move away from that with fred and doc
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As I've said, it was bad because you couldn't do anything to prevent survivors from finishing gens and heals in your face, something the Incapacitated status effect could easily fix.
Not to mention that you could reduce it to 3 seconds with add-ons, if you really wanted to. Also, the Transition would almost always result on a free hit, if you knew what you were doing.
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all issues except the bt issue. They Buffed BT and then made survivors immune to sleep for 30 seconds after waking up at a clock........
Go Figure!!
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Thats 1 survivor though. Theres 3 more. In that 7 seconds youre just standing there staring at them a quarter of a gen got done. Multiple that across all the times you need to put survivors asleep and you can quickly see why it was a busted mechanic
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7 seconds is not even close to a quarter of a gen, and there are a few things to keep in mind:
The Dream World had 50% slowdown base kit. That is why the best idea was to pull as many survivors as you could. If they used Skill Checks to wake up, they are just making the game go by slower, not to mention that they just told you exactly where they are. And that is when his lack of mobility presented itself as an issue, something that the modern day Dream Projection could fix.
As I've said, as long as you knew what you were doing, the Transition would result on a free hit. You could pair it with Thanatophobia for even more slowdown. Or you could just leave them be, denying a possible Self-Care skill check and forcing them to make mistakes.
Freddy had his fair share of weaknesses, and was far from being the best killer in the game. But he was deadly if you adapted to his unique playstyle.
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Not a serious issue, to be honest. A smart Freddy doesn't need to camp.
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7×3=21. 20/80=1/4. It is a quarter of a gen.
The devs would have nerfed the 50% slow down long ago. Even if they didnt, theres a reason he was the weakest killer at that time and the incapacitated sratus on 1 survivor wouldnt have helped
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Only if survivors decide to split up on gens, which is kinda rare on solo queue. And their progress combined result in a quarter of a gen, not individually, and it is possible to recover from that.
Also, the Incapacitated status effect would help you deal with gens, totems and heals. While it might not be the strongest thing ever on one survivor alone, it is very powerful against multiple, which was always his strength. Of course there were scenarios where he would struggle, such as the one you've described, but the same thing happens with every other killer except Nurse.
And weakest killer? Oh please, he was never the weakest.
Don't trust my word? Then trust Otz:
Skip to 1:06:20 and see for yourself.
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Almost every other game i see survivors split on gens, even if all 3 if them are on the same gen pretty sure youve lost more than a quarter at that point. My point isnt that he can be gen rushed like every other killer, my point is youre wasting 7 seconds staring at a survivor which in reds (solo or swf, split or not) is a quarter of a gen. Then you have to chase the survivor on top if it.
Ive seen ohtz video a long time ago, even if he wasnt weakest then hes certainly weaker than he is now.
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Not exactly. If all 3 o[are on the same gen, repairing a quarter of it would take roughly 29 seconds, far longer than the Transition.
Besides, by 7 seconds half of the chase was already done, now it was up to you whether to hit them, commit to them, or leave them. And on a normal situation committing to a chase was not a good idea. The best possible strategy with Freddy was hit and run tactics while juggling survivors between awake and asleep.
When done right, they were not getting those gens.
And yes, his current version is stronger, but unfun, boring and generic. Not to mention kinda inaccurate with the remake's lore. He lost what made him unique, what made him special, and that is unacceptable.
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It takes 3 survivors to do 1 gen in 38 seconds. If all 3 are on the same gen then a quarter of the gen is 9 seconds. How is 9 seconds well beyond the transition of 7 secobds? By the time youve transitioned that dude and downed him theyve finished the gen and are moving on 😂
I think hes fun, what you think is boring and generic isnt an argument. You admitting that freddys current version is stronger is all I needed to hear.
How is it inaccurate with the lore? Its the entities realm, if she wants fredster to be able to stab awake survivors she can do that
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A dev actually said that? It so, they are more clueless than I thought lol.
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"It takes 3 survivors to do 1 gen in 38 seconds. If all 3 are on the same gen then a quarter of the gen is 9 seconds. How is 9 seconds well beyond the transition of 7 secobds? By the time youve transitioned that dude and downed him theyve finished the gen and are moving on 😂"
What? This is extremely wrong:
3 survivors on the same gen would take 118.1 seconds to fully repair it. 118.1/4 = 29.525 which isn't even close to 7 seconds.
And yes, current Freddy is stronger but he is boring and unfun. That is not something that I accept, never did and never will. And, if we take Freddy's power on-release, which is different from the Old Freddy we are talking about, then the disparity of strength is not even that great.
As for the lore, remake's Freddy used blood once, it was a river and not a pool. However, it can be inferred that he pulled Nancy and her mother into the Dream World, precisely what his old power reflected.
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Bruh....you think 3 survivors working the same gen takes longer than 1 survivor doing a gen?
No, no thats not how any of this works. If 3 survivors get on the same gen it takes 38.1 second for them to complete that gen, thats without toolboxes or prove thyself btw. The efficiency penalty applies to your individual speed. At 30% penalty, YOU are repairing 30% slower than normal.
Simple math, for every 9 seconds on your own, youre doing 6 seconds on your own when theres 3 of you. BUT THERES 3 OF YOU. So 3 of you would have 18 seconds of a generator done in what took you on your own to do in 9 seconds.
Here are the real numbers
On no planet does it take 4 survivors longer to do a gen than what a solo survivor would do it in. Look to the far right of your screen shot, it gives you the nunbers right there.
If remake fred made a river of blood you dont think he can make a puddle? 😂
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I misunderstood the numbers. I apologize.
Still, it creates a detrimental scenario to the survivors, especially if those 3 get intercepted. Then we get to a number which I fully understand: the 50% slowdown. Reducing everything by half while getting an extremely precise tracking gives you actual control over the match, something which can be capitalized on.
Not to mention that, if your numbers are correct and it takes 38.1 seconds, it was still one gen. And we can still take spawns and perks into account. Wish I had a time machine, it would make things far easier.
And yes, I think that pulling into the Dream World, which actually happened, is way more accurate than a hypothetical pool of blood.
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That 50% slow down was never staying, you saw what they did to his add ons. Imagine ruin + undying + thanta + a 50% slow down. Theres no way that stays.
There were pools of blood in part 3. If were sticking with the remake, you dont know that he pulled them into the dream world. You inferred that (your words). Its not difficult to infer that if he can make a river of blood he can make a puddle of blood. Im not even sure why that needs to be explained. Him making puddles of blood isnt anymore hypothetical than him pulling them into the dreamworld from being awake
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It was perfectly reasonable for it to stay. It stayed in the game for over a year. Besides, both Ruin and Undying can be destroyed. A simple wake up action removes the slowdown, while healing removes Thana. Dying Light is the only slowdown perk which basically cannot be removed, but no one uses that. It was balanced.
I inferred that because there was just no way for him to attack them without doing so, for he can't interact with people who are awake. Besides, while the pool of blood was a real possibility, it was never shown. While both of them weren't shown directly, at least one of them is hinted at.
EDIT: It is clear to me that we will not agree on this topic, which is perfectly fine. I suggest an alternative solution then:
All the devs need to do is to add a toggle option between Old Freddy and New Freddy. You get to keep your Snares and I get to keep my Transition. Both of us walk out of here happy.
I think this is fair.
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At first I was infavor of his rework, but now that we're here... it just feels flopped. Maybe what they should have done was make his normal basekit before the rework do something more. Like pallets or snares. Something, but this just got overblown
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I was never supportive of his rework, to be honest. Back in 2019, I knew they were going to do something bad, but the lonely voice of an Old Freddy main had little power to stop those changes.
The main thing the devs needed to do was to revert his initial nerf, the one which happened a week after his release. That unnecessary nerf, in my honest opinion one of the worst decisions ever, was what transformed a strong and viable killer into the """""bad""""" Old Freddy that most of us know.
The solution was right there, and they did not go for it.
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Is he strong? Yes. Is that the flop? No.
I meant how it doesn't feel like Freddy anymore, he's just an over tweaked normal m1 killer who can teleport and trick survivors. That's nothing special. Old Freddy pulled you into his world, which made you feel vulnerable. Made you feel truly exposed.
You didn't see or hear him and all of the sudden, you've become his prime target. I miss that now, I wish they could have done more with that instead of just turning him into a normal m1 killer.
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Yeah, that's true. No arguments here, but personally for me, I think it would be neat if he could still do some minor things as well. Like snares or pallets, but the big thing is when he pulls you in. As I told BrokenSoul, I miss the feeling of just all of a sudden I feel completely exposed out of no where.
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Yeah, I know how that is. I miss everything about him.
Losing the one killer you loved most is not easy.
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I'm a Nemesis main now, I watched my family play the games so I grew up with him. But, Leatherface is what brought me into truly playing killer and absolutely love it. If they for some unknown godforsaken reason removed him, I would genuinely be sad, he was my favorite slasher, and Jason will most likely will never be added to, so.. it'd feel like crap. I also grew up watching Friday the 13th, hell. That movie is why 13 is my luck number
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