Community views of what’s “fun” for the killer vs the survivors.
So I’m new to the game as of two weeks ago, and have really enjoyed it so far. I started playing as a survivor (Meg). I have played with a number of experienced players, and they define having fun in the game when they can run a killer forever, gen rush, get cheeky hook saves, pallet crush the killer, taunt them at the exit, take a final hit before they run out, cleanse the active hex totem to turn off killer perks, take hits to save other players, teabag in front of the killer, sneak out through the hatch with a key, flashlight stun the killer repeatedly, etc…
However, the 3rd time I ever played a killer (The Doctor), I put the same survivor on the hook 3x in a row to make it 3v1, did the AOE shock every 60 seconds hitting 2 or 3 with an increased range perk each time, kicked gens and regressed them and put harder skill checks on them, and zapped players to prevent them from jumping through windows and using pallets so I could hit them. Then I would wack them as soon as they would unhook someone. I would also run by people left on hooks and wack them (I don’t think this causes damage or anything, just doing what I think a killer would do). I got a 4 kill and they only fixed 2 gens. Then, after the match, they were pissed, calling me toxic and saying it wasn’t fun. They also said my Doctor was too brutal, and I was running unfun perks (My Doctor is lvl 16), I wasn’t being fair, I didn’t let them do anything, and that I tunneled.
So if the survivors can do all those survivor things, then why is it a problem for killers to do their killer things? I mean, I have watched all the classic horror movies, and none of them go easy on the survivors. They show no mercy and use their abilities to scare, torment, punish, and kill characters, often destroying everyone or all but one character.
As a new player, I am honestly trying to understand why there is such a discrepancy between what’s fun for the survivors and what’s fun for the killers. I really don’t want to create a negative player experience for others in a video game, however, it really feels incongruent to select a killer and then let the survivors escape easily or limit / minimize your objectives and use of perks. Doesn’t seem to benefit the killer to hook everyone once in order, then go through the list again for the 2nd hook, then only hit survivors 1x after that, then they all escape.
Am I missing something here?
Comments
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New players always find doctor hard to play against but hitting someone on the hook is considered a bad gesture so I’d advise against it
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idk i think making it a 3v1 by tunneling someone out of the game at the start i think teaches bad habits ur not gonna learn if you dont take the pressure of beaing a new killer, tho tunneling mid to later game when you need is perfectly fine in my book and i do it all the time, tho wacking on the hook is just a rude gesture unless they were doin something toxic back
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The problem is that "fun" is subjective.
For me as a Killer I get my fun from different things:
As Ghostface I have fun if I can pull off a good stalk and down the survivor without getting noticed.
As Bubba I have fun if I hit a nice chainsaw around a loop because I predicted good and sprinted around it.
As Meyrs I have fun if I get a good jump scare off during my match or get a descent T3 play.
Also I play the BBQ minigame: Stacking BBQ full is the wincon of the match for me. Everything else is a bonus.
As a survivor I play the "We are gonna live forever"-minigame. Same as BBQ but with that perk. At the same time I main Adam as a survivor and I have much fun if I can pull of a nice Deliverance play. Most times this gets ruined by my team and not by the killer, but hey...
Also I like to play the stealth game.
Generaly speaking: Most people have fun looping. As most survivors try to do the same kind of looping against all killers they have no fun against somebody like Doc who needs to be played in a different way. Same with Pyramide Head or Wraith. Survivors need to adapt a bit here. Chasing and looping is fun. M1 gaming a generator is not. Sadly generators are required to open the gates and to escape (winning is fun) and survivors are not alway effectiv at doing it.
For Killers this is why "genrushing" is a problem. It robbs them off the "fun part", the chase when all generators get done while you just walk across the map playing the "swamp walk simulator". Not to blame the survivors here, they are just playing the objective.
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Turning off the endgame chat is where fun begins.
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I never care if killer whacks me as long as they're not camping, but people get really upset about it since it's the killer's way of teabagging. I'd say hooking the same person 3 times in a row is unfair and unfun, but it's not against the rules or anything.
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The experienced players you've played with sound toxic, these "ideas" of fun do not fully represent survivors ideologie/s. Like someone previously stated, fun is subjective. Just because the players said they play this way or think it's fun should not in turn prompt you to rob someone of gameplay. (not to say playing toxic killer isn't needed when survivors in ur match are also toxic!) I think it's important to ask these sorts of questions when you're new so you can take/ask for playing advice in accordance to who thinks what is fun
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Why is that considered a bad gesture? How did that become an offensive behavior in the game? As a new player, I have had killers do that to me, and I didn’t feel offended by it. Not doubting that people feel this way,just trying to make sense of it, since it doesn’t do anything to the survivor in game.
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Not bait, just trying to understand the dynamics of this issue because it doesn’t make sense to me without understanding the origin of the concern.
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See, that concept is a fundamental concern to my question. So I’m supposed to select a killer like Freddy and then have empathy and take it easy on the survivors so they don’t feel scared by one of the most terrifying horror characters of all time? Not trying to be salty, just don’t understand how a killer is suppose to be empathetic… Never seen Jason, Freddy, Michael, Leatherface be empathetic to characters.
Do survivors express empathy to the killer if they get all gens without being hooked, then sacrifice themselves and let the killer get them instead of escaping to make the killer feel good about their game experience?
Honestly, not trying to be salty, just trying to understand.
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Well then, don't take one game or the actions of a few individuals and apply them to half of the player base. Many of us that play, play both sides and do not assign these labels to our competitors who choose to use certain tactics. And some folks that main only one side, can still understand that it is a game and they have no say in how another person plays. And perhaps even understand why the other side chose to use certain tactics in certain situations.
You will find, as you play, that there are crybabies on both sides. Not just one.
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Basically, if you have to think when you are looping is what the community hates.
Sucks to suck.
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What youre missing is that this is an asymmetrival horror game. Winning as killer typically means the survivors arent having fun and vice versa.
What you did is called tunneling and camping. The best killers in the world do this when necessary. As you face better survivors youll notice its not always effective. Just depends on who youre tunneling and the situation as to whether its going to be effective or not.
This game is all about mind games, the greatest mind game the survivors play is convincing killers they have to be nice. You dont. Youre a supernatural serial killer whose goal is to kill as many as possible, theres no reason to be nice about this.
As for slapping the survivor on hook, its considered bm (bad manners) and is comparable to tbagging. I used to avoid doing it just to be nice, after 3 years of ######### messages, flashlight clicking and constant tbagging, i dont care anymore. If i want to slap the survivor on hook, i do. But i also tbag and fladhlight click when i play survivor so maybe im just an ######### 😂
Run whatever perks you want to run, play however you want to play. Most importantly, unless you like talking ######### turn the chat box off.
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I never felt offended by it either. I always laugh when the killer hits me on hook. Idk why people get mad about it, but they do. Its up to you if you care or not. I dont
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Good way of putting it. 👍
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Just play and ignore people who say you should not do this or that. If you play on PC just ignore the end game chat, never read anything. If you are on console turn messages off.
Whatever you feel is fun just go for it. You bought the game and you are free to play how you want.
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What? Well Ya I'm sure some
mostdo it to be toxic. Just to be clear though if you gave me a great and I truly mean great chase, weren't toxic in that chase, after I hook you I look down (Like I'm disappointed in myself) then hit you one time on the hook out of respect. I even did this in a tourney i played in recently that I was asked to be the killer for. There were two survivors that were just exceptional compared to the rest of the field. I did this to them and they knew/guessed it was a respect thing. I get this is different from a campy killer just hitting you but anyone else do this?1 -
Yeah honestly its the same as tbagging. But there are people who bag and then get upset when you hit them on hook. Its the same.
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I do it when the Survivor is one of the characters with a high-pitched scream. Some of those screams border on being physically painful.
This is not intended to sling mud at the VA's; I'm autistic, and I can hear the whine of fluorescent lights & CRT TVs, so higher-pitched noises are an issue with me.
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I think it all stems from the 4 v 1 so you have the majority being the survivor playerbase so their complaints are usually louder then killers. There's a lot of double standards in this game or entitlement. Plus since its two different roles its hard for each side to see eye to eye if you dont play both roles. For one side to have "fun" the other side has to not have "fun". I would also say that killer players are usually more fortified people and dont get bent out of shape as easily. Pretty much all of my friends have tried killer and give up on it because of stress and being beaten and bullied by survivors. I imagine thats the case for a lot of people. Granted this also helps keep the rolls 4 to 1 ratio and maybe thats the point haha but its vicious. Like people say getting tunneled isnt fun well yeah youre right it isnt. But having every safe pallet dropped and losing gens in the process isnt fun either. Both sides just dont see eye to eye, its a shame really. Though I personally go for as many hooks as i can if the survivors mess up and find themselves all down in a snowball, dont be mad at me.
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Specifically I think chases are the most fun for each role. Generally, I just want my decisions and skill to matter which a lot of the time they don't, because of bad matchmaking or bad game balance. And there's either too many long chases I have to do for survivor and no gens get done, or too few chases as killer because the gens are done so fast. It's very "worst of both worlds" in this game.
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The problem I have with Doc is that he is just annoying. A game against him means it is guaranteed to not be a fun match.
It is toxic to continually hit an already hooked survivor. It is also toxic to but dance at the exit gate. You are winning, why can't you be happy and proud of that without trying to rub your opponent's nose in it?
However, if you didn't already realize it by your first paragraph, survivors are the worst. Endgame chat is no exception. The bullies want you to feel bad even if you don't win.
So what I recommend you do is close the chat window, and NEVER look at it. They will message you outside the game, too. In this case they are likely to violate rules of companies that will enforce the rules harshly and immediately, so report and block those comms as you see fit.
After joining DbD I had to block ALL comms on Playstation, because of the toxic sore losers and sore winners. The survivors were by far the worst for this.
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You aren't a killer. You're a normal person playing a video game with other normal people. The expectation is not that Freddy has empathy -- it's that YOU do. Offline, if you acted like everyone who agreed to play a game with you was an object for you to score points off, without any regard for whether they enjoyed playing with you, you wouldn't get invited to very many game nights. Online, unfortunately, it's harder for people to exclude you based on poor behaviour, but that doesn't mean the social expectations have disappeared.
As to why that expectation only applies to people playing killer -- it doesn't. It applies to everyone. People think your friends are rude.
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I mean you denied the other players their opinion of winning, they're probably not going to have fun. Doctor is a bit more oppressive for lower ranks as well as they are not familiar with all of his nuances (reverse skill checks, fake pallets, illusionary doctors giving away locations) and they can't just stealth around the map.
As a person who plays both roles (65/35 killer/survivor) my killer fun is looking for 4 stacks of BBQ, completing a daily/tome, fun builds like scratched mirror Myers, or just cool plays (like illusionary doctors give away survivors' locations like in lockers or great mindgames).
As a survivor, its mainly cool plays (like against Nurse or Hillbilly). I also enjoy totem hunting or play with fun builds (Deception/Head On, BT/Deliverance)
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"Do survivors express empathy to the killer if they get all gens without being hooked, then sacrifice themselves and let the killer get them instead of escaping to make the killer feel good about their game experience?"
Nope. But its common for the survivors to get mad if you don't give the last survivor hatch for free or play "nice". I've heard of it supposedly happening from a few forum members but the majority have said a firm "nope", including me.
For context I don't tunnel or camp because I just don't enjoy it, and in the 3 years I have played this game, not a single survivor has ever done that in any of my bad games. But I sure got hatch on my survivor matches for free on a not too uncommon basis.
It really is just a big double standard in the community at large.
Its one of the main reason why the survivors have the stigma of being "entitled" and honestly in my experience yeah its the majority of the survivor population. People try to excuse it with "oh there's 4 survivors so they're 4 times more likely to be toxic" but its nowhere near 4 to 1, its much bigger on the survivor side. Among other excuses.
I can count of one hand the amount of times a killer has said anything after a match, but survivors? I lost count. I'm usually playing on console so I get less than the average PC player since console lacks post game chat, but they will still go out of their way to send a personal message.
To try and summarize the overall attitude, if its fun or favors the survivors its good, if its not its bad. Its fine for survivors to find fun in being toxic, but not the killers. There's just an overall survivor bias, and it really doesn't help that there are way more survivor players than killer players, so they usually have the backing of the hive mind behind them as well as their team as well and on top of that the devs usually catering to their side more (not exclusively, just noticeably more).
Example : Someone DC's or sacrifices themselves, I've had survivors get upset at the killer much more often for not throwing the match for them, rather than get upset at the person who DC'd.
Example: When the devs reworked the survivor animations they said in their big announcement video "don't worry you can still T-bag". If they would have said "don't worry you can still hit survivors on hooks" I don't think it would have gone over nearly as well. On a side not the devs really shouldn't be promoting or supporting toxicity.
Its been cultivated over the years of the game.
Like its been said, survivors T-bagging and waiting at the gate? yeah thats fine. Spamming a vault to get the killer to come over just to T-bag? yeah thats fine. Killer hits someone on hook? Killer doesn't give last survivor hatch? "omg toxic killer, horrible human being".
It really is just generally allowed for survivors but not for killers because of double standards/entitlement being allowed and even pushed in the survivor side of the community. It sucks and its not all of the survivors, but its definitely the majority unfortunately once you get out of beginner ranks.
It also just cultivates the "us vs them" mentality on both sides. I really wish both sides would just accept that both sides shouldn't be toxic and that shouldn't be allowed, or at the least allow both sides to be toxic evenly.
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Most killers do not find the things your friends do fun.
As a way-too-open-ended asymmetrical game, usually if one side is having fun the other side isn't. The terrible matchmaking only makes it worse.
Players who don't play both sides often have less empathy, though it's also true that some survivors who insult killers for camping and tunneling (even when the killer doesn't) are hardcore campers and tunnelers themselves when they play killer. A lack of self-awareness only increases the incidences of hypocrisy among players.
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I appreciate the comments, response, and insights. I totally realize that everyone's perspective on the issue is valid. Just want to reiterate that I have only played the game for 2 weeks total, and have only played the killer role 3x at this point at rank 20. Its not like I have 2 years of experience and de-ranked on purpose to wreck people at a lower skill level. As a new payer, I find it strange and confusing that this imbalance between whats OK and Not OK for survivors and killers exists in the game / community.
My takeaway at this point is when I am a survivor, I am going to try to accomplish my objectives, help my teammates, and do my best to escape, for myself, and my team by using all of the abilities, techniques, and possibilities available to me in the game, and have fun running scared from the killer, and celebrating success when I can avoid getting caught, fix gens, rescue people from hooks, heal others, or when I escape the map. This can include taunting the killer to follow me, and through skill and awareness, run them around for as long as I can so my teammates can accomplish things. It also includes hiding, or repairing gens faster with skills or tools, being stealthy, dodging attacks, etc... These are fundamental aspects of the game that should not be considered bad behavior. If its strategic and part of the game mechanics, then I do not see how any of that behavior should be labeled as bad, toxic or not appropriate.
When I am the killer, I am going to try to use the abilities, mechanics, techniques, and strategies to progress my objectives, be scary to the players, and fulfill my role to thwart their efforts to survive. I see t-baggin as an actual disrespectful action based on what you are representing with that action, but I do not see wacking a survivor on a hook as disrespectful, cause thats an action that is readily accepted in getting a survivor on that hook in the first place. Nor will I be troubled for strategically making it a 3v1 or 2v1 as quickly as possible if that is how I can strategically accomplish my objective in my role as a killer, or any other viable strategy that is possible in the game. If it is advantageous to prevent a player from being rescued on a hook, then its strategy to partol that area until they have a restricting outcome to their progress. I will also stun, chase, and catch survivors off guard, and do my best to limit their efforts to survive and escape. I will also have no regret if I prevent the last survivor from escaping using the games rules, dynamics, abilities, etc... I also don't see running a particular build as disrespectful, even if it is oppressive. That's what the survivors have to play around to win, and is what makes it fulfilling when, as a survivor, you know you outplayed a killer who maximized their potential to succeed with their objectives.
I realize I am only 2 weeks into the game, however, I am not sure what I would have to experience to adopt the belief that the survivors get to do all of their survivor things, and the killer cannot do their killer things.
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Play to have fun, play to win, do what suits you. My only suggestion is make sure to regularly play both sides: it helps you become better overall and it helps you have empathy for your opponents. Many people who come up with "rules" for the other side or who treat the other side with disrespect are people who don't play both sides regularly, and that's how their perspective gets so skewed.
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Yeah I am totally cool with that. At this point, I have approximately 25 hours on survivor, and maybe 90 minutes on killer.
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My advice to you is simply thus....
PLAY HOW YOU WANT
No matter what you do, somebody is going to be upset with you. If you play hard, the casuals will be mad at you. If you farm points, people like myself will be bored. Do your objective, you'll get accused of tunneling or gen rushing.
You are responsible for YOUR FUN AND YOUR FUN ALONE. If you find it satisfying to rotate survivors on hooks, then have at it. If you want to tunnel the same person down, have at it.
If people get mad because they don't like how you play, it's their problem, not yours. It's them who have the insane idea that randoms are supposed to play in a way THEY like which is just a good way to get pissed off.
People need to stop caring how other people play against them. If they can't handle the worst the game throws at them, they shouldn't be playing in the first place.
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This ^^
Don't learn yourself to tunnel at the beginning of the match, run bbq if possible to lessen the grind and get your 4 stacks. As mentioned about mid game tunnelling, which I class as 2 gens remaining, is fine if you really need someone out of the game. If there are 2 gens left and 4 survivors. Learn when it is best for you to be used but please don't fall into the 5 gen tunnelling routine.
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Yeah, I played a lot of survivor when I first started. It was a while before my first killer match. The idea of playing killer made me nervous, because I was the 1 in a 1v4 and I felt like all the pressure was on me to give the 4 a good match. I got over that, but for a long while I still felt a bit of a weight on me when I played killer. When I turned off messages and friend requests on my PS4 so I no longer got any sort of feedback, positive or negative, I felt a lot freer. If you're on PC, I think you can close the chat box and have it stay closed, so keep that in mind if the things other players say start to get to you. Some people love getting salt from their opponents, but in this game it's so easy and pretty much inevitable that there's really no sport in it, even the nicest players get hate.
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You need to get better, tunneling will only make you worse
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I will give you one more piece of advice because I sense you might be reluctant to leave hooks (which is normal for new killers)
The game isn't so much about removing people from play as soon as possible (although that does help you to remove somebody from play), but about buying yourself time.
You see, your greatest friend as killer is time. The more time you have in the game, the more pallets will get broken and the more and more unsafe the trial gets for the survivors.
Every second a survivor is on a generator is time you are losing to beat them. Hooking somebody only removes one pair of hands from the generator. If you pressure nobody else and nobody comes to save them because you're there, you've got 3 sets of hands ticking away time on generators... taking time away from YOU.
However, if you chase somebody else while somebody has hooked, you have effectively pulled THREE people off generators and bought yourself time because you're chasing somebody, you got somebody hooked, and another person has to go rescue the person who got hooked.
So it's generally a good idea to keep yourself busy chasing and pressuring people off gens. Even if it means breaking off a hard chase to find somebody easier or to get somebody off a gen you see them on.
Remember, it takes 120 seconds for a first hook survivor to completely die... but only 80 seconds for a single survivor to do a generator from zero percent to completely finished.
That means a good survivor pressures the gens, and a good killer shoes them away. But still, if you got easy prey right there in front of you and they're freshly unhooked, don't be afraid to knock them down and put them back on that hook if you want. Especially if they have idiot teammates that rush the hook without the Borrowed Time perk.
Good luck in the fog newbie.
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Fun for me as survivor: being able to play the game for more than 2 minutes.
Fun for me as killer: being able to play the game for more than 2 minutes.
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This is a good point. Lots of times juggeling 2 bad survivors is way more effective than tunneling 1.
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Same 😂
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