Killers are not to weak, here is why
I often see killers complaining that they are to weak. However, they are not. They have easy strategies that do not require that much talent to pull of.
If survivors are bad, then you win.
But what is the survivors are good loopers? Then the killer can simply catch someone and facecamp him. About 2 gens should be done at this point. Most of the time, other survivors will try to rescue the hooked survivor and if you simply face-camp and you are not a complete beginner (or have a one shot) there is no rescuing. But if they do generators, then you will get one kill and the exits will be powered. With Noed, you can down and facecamp the next survivor and there, you have your second kill! It is a draw even if the survivors are better than you!
So most of the time you win, but with easy strategies you will have a draw at worst. You can never lose as killer with these strategies + a very basic level of skill.
Here is a counter-argument you may have:
-"It involves getting hate messages, so this strategy is not that good". Killers can simply disable the chat or block any survivor that added him without reading the messages, besides this does not force a defeat upon a camper it just makes him feel annoyed after the game.
So no, survivors are not op, because killers can simply use simple strategies to draw or win every game.
Comments
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Killers ain't weak whoever complain about them being weak are bad players nothing else they're nor overpowered nor weak they have fairly same chance of winning all this complaiing comes from single reason because most of them who complains expect ez 4k each game with zero effort included and this goes for both sides not just killer players and pretty much because of their ego which can't accept lose one match without coming to complain how weak their side is
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Camping doesn't win games. Bad survivors do.
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Tunneling wins games
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@CoalTower at worst you will have a draw, which means 2 kills. And what is a balanced ratio? Average of 2 kills 2 escapes. There, the game is balanced.
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You say that as if 1k or 0k matches were as rare as diamonds.
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These strategies rely on the survivors being bad. I'd like to see you use these strategies to never lose any game.
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You will de-pip.
Your given example will force a de-pip.
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Not true. Again, facecamping gets you one kill MAX against even a semi decent team.
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@CoalTower max one kill? Where is the logic here? If you catch one survivor, around 2 gens should be done. the decent team will not rescue the hooked survivor but rather do generators. Then, the exits are powered. You can catch someone with noed and facecamp. This gives 2 kills. Where are your counter arguments for this? This means at least 2 kills.
@Pulsar the goal of the game is not to pip. It is to kill (if you are a killer). It is even written in the name of the role "killer", not "pipper". Emblem system is just a bunch of garbage the devs threw together.
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There are four survivors. Against a competent team with a competent looper, 3 gens will be done instead of two, and the last 2 will pop before the hook timer runs out.
They can either: Find and cleanse your NOED totem, if the extra one didn't do bones in the first place
Rescue the survivor while you go chase another
And sometimes both.
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Try that against decent survivors and you´ll end up with 0k.
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I can't even tell which post is troll and which is real anymore
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BHVR should only allow players to post something here when they link their ingame profile to the forum profile :D
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semi-competent you mean, decent would imply they can loop, which doesn't exactly play a factor if the killer spends the match staring into someone's soul until they die
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First of all, killers lose 3 gens in 90 seconds no-contest, that's how the game is designed. Second of all, good survivors beat any killer no-contest. That is also how the game is designed, just look at how unruled tournaments play out. Third, camping is only effective if the survivor is hooked in an important location, and even then it's not useful against actual genrushers. At that point the killer is getting 1 kill at best, perhaps 2 if the survivor forgot to predrop pallets or the killer is playing Nurse and in both scenarios is using NOED.
Edit: also, if we're talking about brainless strategies, the survivor meta is IW, 3 second chance perks and predropping pallets.
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This idea of yours is as foolproof as saying that survivors can 4 man escape each match if they all just loop killer for 5 gens.
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Sluzzy lives everyone. Had me worried with the bad bait the other day. Glad to see you feeling better. Once again though, Please do not feed the troll.
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Boring comes to mind.
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"The only thing weak in this game is players desire to get better"
Sun Tzu probably
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What OP is saying is that there is a strategy that doesn't require you to play well that will guarantee at a minimum a 2k. I wouldn't use this as an example of why killers are OP, but rather why there is a core issue with some killers around hooks. Specifically Bubba, Huntress, and Hag.
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Killers are not little fragile babies that can do nothing. Most of the time you'll do alright with any killer, because even if the killer is on the weaker end, survivors generally don't have the coordination and game sense to win.
The problem is that what killers have to do in a match is way more demanding that what survivors have to do (killers have to outplay every survivor in chases, survivors have to hold M1 on a thing), and survivors have very impactful safeguard perks that can be stacked. Once you do have a decent level of skill and coordination from survivors, they can easily overpower most of the roster or just give them a ridiculously hard time.
Generally speaking, I absolutely despise the fact that while I'm sweating my ass off trying to control a match, every survivor I'm not chasing is basically just holding a button and listening to music while winning the game. And most games where survivors finish their gens, if I do something to have them actually play and interact with me, they immediately just all die, because they didn't actually outplay me during the match, they just outgenned me. That should not happen.
This imbalance breaks the game in favor of the survivors when they get too skilled. However if you're good with killer you will most likely have more than 60% win rate at least with most killers. Killers have their bullshit too, lets not pretend they dont, but let's be honest and admit that this game is too much in the survivors' control at higher levels.
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True.
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I honestly feel like old Ruin should be basekit on every killer but Spirit and Nurse. Make survivors objective take more skill.
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This is exactly the case. Face-camping is a guaranteed 2k and almost all times it will be a 4k. You have to remember, Face-camping killers don't level up, so they will continually get 4k and stop pipping after a point. People are saying that decent survivors won't lose to this, but the problem is, this type of strategy never runs into decent survivors.
Face-Camp + NOED + No pip Strategy is unbeatable.
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This shows a fundamental flaw in the game's design. Learning to play killer in a way that's fun and interactive for survivors is 1. Not intuitive, 2. A Pain in the ass and not necessarily worth the effort if all you want is kills.
It is so much easier (and more intuitive) to stagnate and just camp the hook for kills. Learn to use complicated/buggy killer powers? Why bother? Stay in the crappy ranks, destroy unskilled players.
The game does not push the two sides into interacting but actually encourages sticking to methods that are easy and not really fun: Camping and tunneling for killers; rushing through gens and avoiding the killer for survivors. Everyone loses out on having an entertaining match.
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If the peak of survivors destroy the peak of killers, then there's something wrong. Survivors are like Nurse. Most aren't even at an intermediate level, but they have ridiculous potential (though weirdly enough, some of the potential does not require skill, which is why it's weird that there's so many bad survivors).
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Gen rushing is very rare. When you say gen rushing, your talking about BnP, Toolkits, gen speed up perks on every survivor. Otherwise it's not a gen rush.
But I definitely agree with you on killers with tunneling and camping. Killers that do that, never learn the game. I'm surprised the Devs haven't done something to severely penalize it.
It's not fun for survivors, it's not fun for killers and I bet killers that camp end up going to another game and playing it, because it makes DBD seem like a boring game.
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- Well, following that definition, the genrush is by no means rare for me (baring speedup no every survivor, but stacking PTS is a bad idea, so 1 or 2 counts). Neither is SWF BTW.
- They did. It's the pipping system. It's so poorly designed as a win condition with bugs they've just left for no reason which results in no killer taking it that seriously and playing by their own rules.
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I didn't say gen rushing, I said rushing through gens and avoiding the killer. I'm talking about it as a general strategy that all survivors can do regardless of perks. That is the easiest and most optimal way for survivors to win. No one will ever say taking your time on gens and throwing yourself at the killer is the best way to win. The better survivors are at their basic strategy, the less fun a killer is able to have in terms of getting to participate in the match.
Not to mention that it's a cycle. If a killer feels gens are popping too fast, they'll camp. If a killer camps, survivors are told the best counter is to rush through gens and leave the camped survivor to die. In their desperation to win no one bothers to have fun.
Or there's the other easy escape: the survivor who camps the hatch instead of helping their team. They "win" but they didn't play, they didn't participate.
Like I said, the game is poorly designed and encourages boring playstyles on both sides. Only talking about one side and not the other creates an illusion of blame, like it's all the players' fault rather than a core gameplay problem.
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Still kind of disagree with the survivor side of things. Survivors have a lot more fun running the killer, doing gens is boring. Also, you are almost guaranteed chases as a survivor. So there's a reward for getting into chases.
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You're pretty much agreeing with me. Yes, doing gens is boring, getting into chases is the fun part. But doing gens and avoiding chases as much as possible is how you escape, it's how you win. It's boring for both sides and it's not good game design.
Survivors who ignore gens and throw themselves into chases aren't doing their given objective, and if all four survivors do that then the team can't win. I'm specifically talking about how the game's own mechanics and win conditions don't encourage fun matches. It's ridiculous because it's not enjoyable to do or face these strategies, but for a lot of players winning trumps all else.
Edit: According to this post, survivors are adapting to new killer designs by even running chases in a way that's fun for neither the killer nor the survivor. If this is at all accurate, the fun part is becoming less fun for all due to the way players adapt to win with the game's mechanics. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/259814/ever-since-the-tru3ta1ent-vs-oracle-matches-majority-of-my-matches-are-like-that
Post edited by TragicSolitude on0 -
killers are weak?... some are, others arent. if u play against solos u probably will win anyway unless their individual skill is high enough to beat you.
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I think there could be some sort of mechanic where something like huntress lullaby is default on gens the more progress they have. Like skillchecks start normally, at 25% the skillcheck warning is lower and gives you less time to react, at 50% even more, and at 75% theres no warning. Like the noise of the generator is muffling the sound around you.
You could even reduce a killer's TR by a percentage depending on gen progress, this would help generators be less safe, cuz currently i think it's too safe to do a gen, especially against non stealth M1 killers. You just run as soon as you hear the TR and the killer would spend too much time just catching up.
That could make it take a bit more skill to do a generator without really changing it too much.
Honestly a full rework of the gen repairing mechanic would be ideal, but at this point it's been suggested so many thousands of times for so many years that I don't think the devs have any intention of reworking that part of the game.
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That doesn't sound very fun for either side. 🤔
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You have the potential to become a murderer, I mean you have 2 hands, you can hold a gun or a weapon. You must be put into jail.
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@CoalTower I agree old ruin should be base kit, but only on 3-4 man swf. Solo queue games are already balanced and solos do not need nerfs.
If the survivors are solos: no effect.
If the survivors are a 2 man swf: old ruin but the great skill check zone increases by 25%.
If the survivors are a 3 man swf: old ruin.
If the survivors are a 4 man swf: old ruin without the totem.
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Killer is not "weak", survivors are just stronger.
"If survivors are bad, then you win." Well...this is the way it should be. The better side should win. Whats bad or wrong about that?
A 2 kills vs 2 escapes is the expected outcome for a match this is what would be balanced. However you do not say anything about how to performe better than the avarage then you get a risk / reward ratio: You can not get a 4k by camping if the survivors are not potatoes. And this is what my statement is about: Survivors have no real difference in the risk/reward ratio when they go for a 3 man escape. Their ration only chages when they go for a 4 man escape. As such survivors are "stronger" than killers as they can get a better result with only a little increase in risk.
Note that we still do not know what a "win" is in this game for a Killer. Is a 4k a win? Is it a 3k? Or do we count hooks - after all we got a hook-o-meter rescently - this could very well be up for debate and would change my argument a bit. I only accounted for kills here. If we account for hooks then the risk / reward ration for Killers is changed.
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Thatsa lie...
they can pop all 5 gens in less than 2 minutes of one hooked survivor,
So stop that lyin' rn.. lol
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Killers are actually stronger than survivors I think. You cant counter killer meta perks easily, but you can counter survivor meta perks easily
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Well, killers are not weak, survivors are just stronger when it comes to the highest level of play. However, not every game reflects the highest level, and when it comes to casual games killers were never completely helpless.
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Well...
According to what I could find on the net these are the "top" perks for Killers:
- BBQ & Chilly
- Hex: Ruin
- Pop goes the Weasel
- Discordance
- Starstruck
- Corrupt Intervention
BBQ is countered by going into a locker. Ruin can be cleansed. Discordance can be noticed very quickly and you can evade it by playing optimal as splitting up is beneficial for survivors. Starstruck can be countered by not walking into the terror radius of the Killer. Corrupt Intervention can be waited out.
Only Pop can not be "countered". But it takes an efford from the Killer to get activated.
As such the top perks for Killer scan be countered very easily.
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as for the survivor perks
DS: dont tunnel
BT: go for the unhooker
DH: bait it
UB: dont slug
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In a competitive scene, survivors will always win. Even against Spirit. Even against Nurse. Just because you play Nurse doesn't make easy games. Same with Spirit.
The game is poorly designed. If there was another game like DBD, I'd instantly be gone lol. These devs and community mods through their servers are horrible.
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But isn`t this what survivors want?
Or you can take a perk that is always there. Prove Thyself, Sprint Burst, Iron Will, Kindred, Spine Chill or Windows of opportunity. Neither can be "countered" by a Killer.
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A draw on some annoying los blocker maps maybe but in all other maps I'll be breaking that noed and giving that second hooked survivor a endurance hit if my other team mate didn't leave yet.
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