The only thing I can think of as a reason for all of the sweaty killers and gen-rushing survivors is
The nerf of Ruin. Before it was nerfed, I had more variety of killers that I faced (except for tunneling Freddy's) and matches lasted longer than what we have now. Granted, it didn't do much against really good survivors or swf, but it did help a little with them, while allowing killers to take it easy against solos and not have matches be a slug fest after a tunnel fest.
I admit I am not a developer or game designer, so I know my opinion can be wrong, but I feel like old Ruin was healthier for the game than what we have now. Though, we did get Undying, which is nice for Devour.
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Okay gen rushing isn’t a thing lol. Survivors have one objective so what would you suggest they do? Wait in a corner until the killer says “go”? Do you see how absurd that sounds? “Hey everyone, let’s take a few minutes and wait until the killer is ready to begin playing”. Lmao
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Post edited by DangerScouse on20
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The killer has one objective, to kill. People still complain if they are being tunnelled. Why? This is just the killer doing their one objective.
Does this mean tunnelling doesn't exist according to your logic?
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No it's a thing, but it's fine there's enough killers,perk, and certain maps to deal with it.
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Same thing can be said about tunneling and camping
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Technically a killer’s chief objective isn’t to kill, it’s to extend the survivor’s suffering. There’s a reason why it is possible to get a worse score with a 4K than it is to have with 4 escapes after 2 hooks each.
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Don't forget about the times the unhooker hides so you only see the recently unhooked survivors tracks. Do we see them and say 'oh, it would be unfair to down them again. Let me waste some time looking for someone else' lol
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dur
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Respectfully, I've never understood the mentality that survivors can dictate what a killers objective should be. Not everyone cares about 30k bloodpoints every game. It's a game about killers hunting survivors, with the aim of sacrificing them. Some people want kills as their primary goal. It's their game and their choice.
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Yes gen rushing is a thing. The term is overused, and is usually applied to people just doing gens normally. It is still very much a thing though.
@topic do you mean old, as in 5% regression on a good skill check Ruin? If so I have to disagree. Once survivors got decent it didn't really effect them. All old Ruin did was train me to hit greats. Even now I still hit them more than half the time without thinking about it.
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That's a tough one. I think old ruin worked better for killers with less mobility and new ruin is good for high mobility killers that can apply pressure better.
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BINGO. The gens took linger, ruin became a secondary objective, and skilled survivors were rewarded by finishing faster.
The gane NEEDS a mandatory secondary objective.
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Yes, I agree, but my point is that the new Ruin gave rise to the constant gen-rush meta, that even uncoordinated solos are doing. Good survivors are going to be able to do gens irregardless of which Ruin is in play, my thread is just more of an observation of when matches have gotten shorter.
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Yeah ik. But new ruin can actually slow the game down better than the old one depending on a killer.
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Dude you literally do the same thing like what the f*** are you talking about
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So maybe bring back old Ruin for low mobility killers? Just put a restriction on it that it can't be paired with new Ruin.
I know it's not going to happen, I just wish we could do something to make the game more enjoyable for both sides.
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I don't know if you know this or not but the point of the game is to get gen's done as fast as possible and get out because let's be for real nobody wants to spend two and a half hours in a game
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Had a two man SWF at 4 gens completed let the rando Feng on the hook die as I chased the rando Jake.
They hopped out the hatch with a Key and left the Jake behind to die.
######### pieces of #########.
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Those high mobility killers didnt need old ruin
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Who said anything about 2 and a half hour game? 😂
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I don't know if you know this, but not everyone wants to get gens done as fast as possible and have 4 minute games. Some people like to play casually and have games last from ten to fifteen minutes.
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I don't know if you know this but not everybody has like 40 hours to throw at a game believe it or not some people have responsibilities some people don't have the luxury of living in Mom's basement for all eternity some people might want to do a couple of games before they head out for the day I don't know maybe I'm just considerate
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So playing a match for 10-15 minutes is now 40 hours? How is it fun to have only 5 minute matches? If you're so stressed for time, you shouldn't be playing video games at all.
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So now I'm not allowed to enjoy what little down time I get because again because I've taken on the role of responsibility of being an adult and I didn't choose to stay in mommy's basement forever and ever and ever got to love it man I love it
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I’m really not dictating anything other than what the setup for the game actually is. If you 4K with Bubba everybody within 30 seconds of match start you are likely to get an “Entity Displeased” result. So obviously just “killing” everybody isn’t supposed to be the primary objective. The objective is to entertain the entity, and that just plain doesn’t entirely rest upon killing everybody, despite the person playing the killer playing just for that.
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Gen rushing is most certainly a thing, though it isn't necessarily the survivors doing. It's in game design. When you have maps as large/difficult to transverse as they are, with killers like Trickster, Pig, and Trapper that can't apply adequate pressure, then you'll be slammed on gens. Why do you think Corrupt is so popular? It limits some of that, though not entirely. Granted, this isn't seen until higher levels of play.
Now, it CAN be used by survivors. Mostly by SWF, or good solos that know what they're doing. Lots of Prove Thy Self and BNPs/Equipped toolboxes, or a rush to complete said gens over anything else in the match. But in most cases, it comes down to game design.
There aren't many feelings worse in this game, at least to me, then when three gens pop simultaneously in my first/second chase at under three minutes. So, of course you're going to see threads on this, though most for the wrong examples.
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Depend old ruin was better early game the perk help with keeping the gen undone early. Like that you did not have 2 or 3 gen complete in the first minute. This was better for the killer sanity XD
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Yeah. That is a good point.
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Honestly, I think it's as simple as "people like to win and will do what it takes to do so"
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But i remember when pgtw got buff i saw a lot off pgtw,bbq,ruin and corrupt intervention and i really dont miss this it was a pain to play against that
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But how are you supposed to entertain the entity if gens literally start popping all over the place whilst you're taking the first down to the hook. 2nd down another gen pops and before you know it the game is over. Doubt the entity is getting much enjoyment out of it.
Although I hate the perk and stopped using it for a long time, I have resorted to using no-ed to at least get another hook or 2 and get a little more bp.
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The reason you have "sweaty killers" and "gen rushing survivors" is because players are trying to win the game. Simple as that.
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Old Ruin did nothing to people who were able to hit great skill check. It was a pain for new survivor & match with some latency/stuttering. I don't know how old ruin can be consider stronger than the new one vs people who know how to hit skill check.
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Naw. It's ego.
Nothing more, even though with how bloated it is in each case it might look like it
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Genrushing absolutely is a thing. I've had a gen pop in the first 15 seconds of a match. Genrushing isn't simply doing the objective. It's doing the objective as fast as possible through stacking on gens with perks like Prove Thyself and Resilience with (usually) Commodius Toolbox and BNP.
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Please elaborate?
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You can make up to 520% more BP than normal during this event, so I'm really not seeing why they're trying so hard to win.
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Yes, but Killing everyone *is* the primary goal. For example, that is why you are rewarded for not letting anyone escape.
Sure you get *more* rewards the more they suffer (e.g. more hooks), but that doesn't change the fact the goal of the killer is to kill.
Ultimately if someone is playing a video game that is "killers versus survivors" and plays the role of the killer, absolutely nobody can dictate that person shouldn't be looking for kills by whatever means they choose.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on1 -
As a killer main, when I hear "gen rushing" I don't think of it as survivors doing something they shouldn't be doing necessarily. They need gens to escape so why shouldn't they get them done as quickly as possible?
I see it as a commentary on how quickly and easily gens can pop with 4 survivors being tunnel vision focused on it. Especially if they are co-ordinated.
Again, I wouldn't tell survivors not to do that. It's literally needed for them to escape. Doesn't mean it's fun for the killer though :-). .... Same way I wouldn't tell killers not tunnel or camp. Whatever works for each side, right.
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I'm probably going to keep hammering on this, but I feel that solo gen speeds should be reduced, while co-op gen speeds should be maintained/increased.
Currently, everyone soloing a gen is both the safest and most effective strat, and one person getting hooked has minimal impact since there's still three people working on gens, leading to the issue of 'first hook = three gens'.
If soloing a gen took longer, and co-oping a gen was faster, then survivors would have to choose between a fast, risky strat, and a slow, safer strat. Additionally, having someone on the hook would slow survivors down more.
One thing of note, though: this can't be implemented without a camping nerf, as any kind of slowdown would be a buff to camping as a strat and is likely to push it into 'safe 2k' territory.
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