NoED is OP, but not in the way you might think
So it takes 14s to cleanse a totem, for 5 totems, that is a total of 70s spent. Now, lets double that time to account for travel time and time spent searching. This is highly unrealistic, and in an actual game, it will take most survivors longer than 14s on average to find a new totem to cleanse. But for the sake of argument, lets say removing the risk of NoED takes 140s of the survivor team's time.
By cleansing all 5 totems, which is the only way to prevent Noed from activating, the survivors have just given the killer 7 triggers of pop goes the weasel for free. And if the survivors do not cleanse all 5 totems, the killer usually gets a guaranteed 1 additional kill.
I do not feel that NoED itself should be changed, aside from adding something to prevent the AFK NoED meme.
What i think should happen instead, is a massive buff to dull-totem cleansing speeds. Perks like Counter Force, Small Game, and Detective's hunch should be buffed to give a SIGNIFICANT dull totem cleansing speed. Why only dull totems? Because i dont want other hex perks to get nerfed from these changes.
Small Game: Same as it is now, but it will reveal the totem's aura if you are within 6m of the totem. Also grants a 100% cleansing speed bonus to dull totems.
This is to cut down on travel/search time of the totems for maps that have some REALLY well hidden totems like lery's
Detective's: Same is it is now, but also grants a 100% cleansing speed bonus to dull totems.
This perk already effectively cuts downs on the search time for the totems, but the survivors still waste a significant amount of time actually cleansing the dull totems.
Counter Force: Instead of revealing the farthest totem, it will reveal the nearest dull totem. If no dull totems remain, reveal a hex totem instead. Grants a 100% cleansing bonus to dull totems, and a 20% additional cleansing bonus to all totems every time a totem is cleansed.
The perk revealing the farthest totem forces the survivor to waste significantly more time due to the fact that thet need to run across the entire map to cleanse a new totem. This new version will allow counter force to be more effective at removing noed, but not affect other hex perks in anyway.
Finally, in order to prevent the AFK noed meme, I suggest that NoED cannot activate unless the killer has hooked at least 3 different survivors at least once. Killer mains, tell me honestly if this is much to ask for. 3 hooks, thats all. Maybe im wrong on this one. I just dont like the AFK NoED meme.
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Sure if exhaustion perks removed from the game.
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I've been thinking about how to make noed better and more reliable while also not completely carrying bad killers. And my opinion is that noed shouldn't be a hex perk at all. Bc what happens is either it never gets found, gets insta cleansed, or never even activates bc all the totems are already gone.
I think the perfect way to fix noed from the perspective of a killer main, is to make it have some other requirement to activate but ensure it activates every time. The best way to do that in my opinion is to have a hook requirement. I think every hook you get should increase the amount of time noed is active. So noed would reward killers for getting their objective done and not rewarding them for nothing.
As it stand I personally feel like noed encourages a very unhealthy playstyle. This is all just my opinion though.
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Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Did you ever read the thread?
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Perks shouldn't counter perks. If the only reason to cleanse dulls is NOED, NOED is the problem.
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i cant much put it into words, but noed is stronger if the survivors themselves don't escape when they can. i think most times its the survivors unwillingness to quickly escape. maybe they try and go for a save or go and try to find the hex.
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Op : Open a thread about NOED.
Killer mains : LeTs NeRf Ded hArD aNd eXhAuStIoN PerKs
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Right, now let's look at gen speeds in relation to chase time.
If a survivor does nothing but hold w, runs in the opposite direction of the killer, doesn't use pallets, doesn't vault windows, doesn't even use perks. It takes 48 seconds for that killer to down the survivor. Now factor in the time it takes to pick them up, find a hook, and hook them, and you probably just spend 70-80 seconds. Then you lose 3 gens.
NOED is the counter to survivors "gen rushing". If survivors refuse to spend time doing that objective, they run the risk of running into NOED. It is no different than killers assuming that every survivor is running DS. DS is such a strong perk (even after it's nerf) that it doesn't even have to be in the game for it to be effective". The same applies to NOED.
The game was designed with the idea that survivors are going to hide, do totems, and loot chests. Obviously given that you can hold w for 48 seconds.
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So much hate(not you but in general) for a perk that only does anything in the end game and could not even activate if survivors do more than just gens. Why cant people just be bothered to do totems, and yes its as simple as just doing them.
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Survivor mains want to rush gens, and bully the killer after that.
NOED is in their way to do so
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Dead hard for distance (the way good players use it) has about as much counterplay as spirit with stridor.
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When I play survivor I almost always use detectives hutch and in most matches I cleanse all of the dull totems, if people are just gonna walk past dull totems they deserve NOED.
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I know and that's what sucks, some survivors would rather be handed everything than actually work for their escape. Yet those same survivors will be the first to tell a killer what they did and didn't earn.
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Give NoED some tokens, every time you attack you lose a token. I haven't quite figured out what the best way to give them would be. Probably something like No Way Out or BBQ, with unique survivor hooks.
That way, it's not dependent on totems, and has some semblance of earning it, as opposed to getting infinite free exposed hits once the gates are powered.
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Agreed, but it has no place to be discussed here. It's a NoED thread, not a whataboutism contest.
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While I understand your complain you need to think about it in a different way:
Cleansing all Totems is a side objective. Like in any game you get a reward for that side objective and that is the "happy ending" to the story. If you do not complete the side objective you get the "neutral ending" to the story which is one more death for the team.
Maybe this should be empathised more or become a bigger thing in the game. And yes maybe some balance changes to NOED would be nice. But over all I think it is a decent perk that has meaningful counterplay (as all hexes) and enforces a longer game. As such it counters pure genrushing.
However we can talk about the fact that the Killer should get bigger motivation to work against this, to protect his totems.
Maybe make it like this: NOED activates once the last generator is completed. Once this happens the perk gets stack equal to the number of remaining totems. Each time the Killer downs a survivor one stack of NOED is lost. Once all stacks are depleted NOED breaks.
This would reward totem cleansing, encourage the Killer to protect totems (Thrill of the Hunt comes to mind) and still retain NOEDs thread level.
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They started it, not me. I was merely replying to this person who brought it up.
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On the other hand, survivors need a second objective to prevent gen rushing, and if NOED really is the ONLY reason to cleanse totems, then NOED is probably one of the best perks in the game, just by its existence. In the same vein that DS (before the nerf) single handedly prevented most tunnelling just from the chance that the survivor might have it.
I'm not a fan of the way NOED works though. It's too overbearing, it the most all-or-nothing perk in the game, and the "all" is too much.
I'd prefer it if NOED was reworked to take a snapshot of all uncleansed totems the moment the last gen is repaired, and then grant the killer that many tokens. Each token = an instant down. That way there's a limit to how many times the killer can use it, and it directly scales with survivor engagement with totems.
All Hex perks should work something like this to be honest. I can't stand the all-or-nothing nature of them.
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The reason survivors don't do totems is because there's absolutely no reason to and absolutely no matter what totems will always be too much for any team with solo players due to their inherently hidden design. If the Devs want to add a secondary objective, the only way totems will come into play is if the gate switches are locked until all 5 are gone, which would make escaping as a solo survivor borderline impossible.
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This is blatantly false. I can managed to do 2-3 totems myself most games. It's not hard for the other three survivors to do 2 between them.
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The biggest problem imo is that noed has always the same power. Doesn't matter if 1 or 4 dull totems are cleansed. If they change it more into a token based perk, where it loses strength for every token cleansed, then you get at least a reward for doing totems and its more likely survivors will do totems.
Because if the survivors know they don't have time to search and cleanse 5 totems, than they won't even do 1 or 2. There's no reason for that because noed will come with its full strength anyway.
I made a thread about that suggestion but ppl pretty much were saying noed is fine, so you can't even argue with people about a noed change, because they utterly feel attacked or accuse you of whining. So yeah ...
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Nah, there's at least two other people in his topic, including myself, who absolutely agree.
All Hex perks need to scale with the number of totems, to stop them being all-or-nothing. When there's already so much RNG involved, being screwed over by a single totem placement (survivor or killer) can be a real kick in the nuts.
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I cleanse totems fine in my solo games. Actually when I'm solo I specifically run small game just so I can be the more efficient with it because I assume my 3 teammates will be too lazy to do totems.
"Ok going to the next gen, let me spin my camera here rq thats a common totem spot. Oh theres one there."
If NoED still procs its usually the last totem because I did the other 3-4. My 3 teammates couldn't do 1-2 totem(s) between them. The best part? its usually right next to a gen they did and they decided to ignore it. I didn't go there to check earlier because the gen was already done.
"no reason to do totems"
- Bloodpoints
- NoED
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"All Hex perks need to scale with the number of totems"
I wouldn't be against this. Give survivors a reason to do totems more, stops my perk from being worthless 20 seconds in.
Although imo NoED is "fine" from a balance perspective, survivors have more than enough time to do the totems. Speaking from my own experience.
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Sorry, i wasn't trying to play the victim role here.
It's just frustrating when you try to argue or discuss with people about changes or get them to add their idea to your idea, but instead people come and say this is fine or stop whining. They literally can stop posting anything at that rate.
Yeah, i definitely agree with you.
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There are plenty of totem tracking perks, and items in the game at this point. Just devote 1 of your 16 perks to that?
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the whole idea for hexes is that they replace those dull totems. some hexes have affects with them, some have affects with windows, big deal.
if they aren't lit, not an issue. well noed isnt lit until active. well find it and destroy it. easily enough on most maps.
otherwise dont be stupid and stay in the trial if you dont need to. problem solved
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