Wraith is balanced or not?
I really like the new change that Wraith receives but I feel at the same time that it is too strong in some sections, basically it does not have a cooldown on its power, plus the advantage of seeing it invisible for about 16 meters I estimate, since before it was He could appreciate seeing it from 24 meters and it gave him the opportunity to escape from it. I feel like he's pretty good where he's at but he needs improvements, or a minor nerf to his power. I leave it up to him.
Comments
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Besides all seeing blood needing a nerf he’s fine
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I will say, if you play Wraith vs. a red rank swf sweat squad, it will become evident very very quickly that he's not overtuned. Windows and dropping pallets right as he uncloaks can usually buy you an insane amount of time against him. The inherent cooldown on his power is the time it takes to uncloak. Vaulting windows while he is cloaked also doesn't count as "in chase", so the entity blocker doesn't come into play unless he's uncloaked for the full chase, which makes him an m1 killer
I think he's pretty comparable to most good killers in the roster now. Can be strong against solos, can be dumpstered by a good swf
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All he needs is add on nerfs. Other than that, he’s fine.
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All he needs is All-Seeing add-ons nerfed and that's about it.
His megalunge is exactly the same as it used to be, you just have 0.25 more seconds to do it, that's all.
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At this point, I think it's just his add-ons that need looked at. I think his base kit is fine, but I can't really look at this from a non biases POV. I know some people really hate him now. I still think he's easy to win against, but that could be because I know how to run a Wraith from playing him so much.
If they do decide to tone anything down about his basekit, it'd likely be his super lunge.
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My issue with Wraith is that his playstyle is super boring. “Cloak, uncloak, hit with an omega lunge, runs away, doesn’t commit to chases”.
He’s not overtuned because like most killers, you ain’t winning against a coordinated group of good survivors.
I personally don’t like him but he’s pretty balanced other than the fact that lunge seems omega long. It seems like it’s very similar to a Spirit using Wakazashi Saya.
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Wraith imo is where he should be.
The thing is Wraith's power is two fold: Patrol power, and ambush power. A big issue is the devs were super afraid of his ambush power which lead to him just not being able to get any value out of patrolling, because the uncloak penalty was too forgiving for survivors who let wraith get close.
As is, Wraith is doing what he needs to do. For Wraith to be 'fair' you need to be nearly guaranteed to take hit if you let Wraith finish part of his uncloak animation before you start moving. Likewise, you need to be likely to take hits if your unable to position correctly while he is uncloaking because you panic.
This makes Wraith EXTREMELY strong vs survivors who don't run with a plan, but vs survivors who are relatively composed he is perfectly fair and probably a bit too weak. He doesn't need a buff though, because regardless Wraith is FUN, both to play as because being spoopy jumpscare man is fun, and against (As is the case with all stealth killers) because he adds tension back to gen repair. Being good isn't as important as having a fun gameplay loop, and while his buff was a buff, it was more important that it gave Wraith real value on sneaking up on people than it directly powering the killer up. Wraith really more needed the feeling of reward for sneaking up on folks (like Mikey and Ghost Face have) than actual raw power, even though he was weak, and getting both at once is just a nice bonus.
A killer being 'good' far more has to do with how interesting they are and how interesting (not enjoyable, interesting) their interactions with the survivors are. Wraith has good interactions now, even though he is relatively weak. Trapper's interactions are good until comms come into play, at which point they are bad. Spirit's interactions with survivors are very boring, so despite being strong they aren't actually that fun for either side unless you enjoy winning 'unfairly.' Demo's or Blight's are, despite being strong, so its interesting even for survivors.
So by this metric, despite being 'bad' Wraith is good, just because Wraith is enjoyable to enter games as and against. Really weak players will get thrashed by them, but you can't balance too hard around the floor. You don't want newbies absolutely getting thrashed (The "Akali" problem, if your familiar with oldschool league) but ultimately them losing relatively hard to a given option because they lack even basic mechanical mastery is fine.
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After seeing his performance against oracle he needs a buff
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I honestly feel like Wraith shouldn't get a speed boost after using his power. I've been trying to play safe against Wraiths, it works well but if The Wraith has shadow dance it completely backfires.
It makes me feel like a mad man typing this aloud but I think Wraith is becoming a lite version of Spirit. I get to a pallet against a shadow dance Wraith that's still cloaked and I just can't do anything without giving him a time advantage.
- Play safe
Pallet gets shadow danced, Wraith uses his cloaked and uncloaking MS bonuses to get a hit faster than I can find safety.
- Loop the pallet
The Wraith stands under the pallet and uncloaks using his MS bonus to wrap around the loop, because I tried to loop the pallet I'm on the opposite side of the loop and I can't punish him for walking into the pallet.
Am I ill? Have I been playing survivor to much? Am I becoming one of those people? Help.
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Wraith is fine the way he is, what makes him seem strong is the fact that people played him to the point of being really good at him before the buff. After the buff those same people are that much better since he's overall better.
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whats shadow dance.
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Wraith is good but not broken or overpowered, I've faced a lot of Wraith since his rework and still manage to outplay him. I think he just needs a smaller weapon hitbox to balance the uncloak speed.
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It's the same lunge as he had before.
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Shadow Dance is a set of add-ons that allow the Wraith to break pallets/gens/walls and vault faster, but only while cloaked. The bonus is pretty ridiculous if I remember correctly.
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i think that's the one that breaks objects tremendously faster.
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Everything about Wraith is balanced except “All Seeing” - Blood.
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ok thank you
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He's in a perfect spot a good power with good add-ons (All Seeing Blood can be nerfed). But, his strength can be based on luck a lot. Like if there's Exhaustion or Healing perks both do good damage against him.
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Wraith needs the lunge or his power is useless. Imagine Survivors sprint away while he decloaks, and he has no lunge; With the slowdown on decloaking, Survivors are now 20 yards ahead by the time Wraith has normal movement speed again.
No lunge = useless power. You lose ALL of the distance you gained by sneaking up, when you decloak. And that's without possible Sprint Burst, Lithe, or Balanced Landing giving the Survivors more speed.
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I don't really think that's fair. You're basically saying "assuming every single player is sweating like they're a tournament squad, he's not that good." You have to remember that not every team is a red rank four man
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Wraith not getting a speed boost after using their power is how it USED to work and it is what made him so unplayable.
If Wraith is forced to announce themselves to decloak then he is the worst stealth killer, as other stealth killers can get the injure state right away. Being visually concealed isn't that good on most maps and isn't worth him literally never being allowed to hurt people out of power.
The reason the speed boost is fair is because it isn't enough if you run with a plan. Wraith depends on you either being in a deadzone (in which case he doesn't even NEED a power), or for you to not start running the second you see his shimmer approach.
In your example, if wraith camps the pallet while uncloaking, if your not close enough to toss the pallet while he does the uncloak, you should be safe. Also, feel free to sit in front of a pallet and force Wraith to uncloak. If you do it right he gets stunned, you get distance, and he either needs to re-cloak to shadow dance, or he chases you at a big disadvantage while you still have that pallet vs him later. Shadow Dance is considered not suuuuper great because it actually projects no threat to the survivor if they are smart, as you can't hit them while cloaked. So they can just use your cloak against you if your trying to loop em cloaked by getting a 'super-stun' and combining your de-cloak animation AND the stun animation for distance.
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Sorry, that's not the impression I wanted to give. Let me clarify that:
- Against the average solo queue team, Wraith is balanced. If the Wraith player is skilled, they have a good chance of winning
- Against a good solo team, Wraith is balanced. Unless the Wraith player is more skilled than the survivors, it'll be close to a draw
- Against a decent SWF team, Wraith is a little weak. Unless the Wraith player is significantly more skilled than the survivors, they'll struggle
- Against a good SWF team, Wraith will have a rough time. Assuming an equal skill level, the Wraith will lose
- Assuming every single player is sweating like they're in a tournament squad, Wraith will get stomped into the dirt the overwhelming majority of the time. Look at tru3 vs oracle as a good example of that
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For me he is balanced with his new buff except his extended lunge when uncloaking.
From playing him after his buff, it is the one thing I feel could be reduced or be looked at.
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I think he's in a really good spot.
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base kit he's great now, some of his addons definitely need toning down though
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Wraith is fine, he's essentially the same as he was pre-buff with Windstorm. It's just that now more people are playing him and survivors who aren't the most experienced are having to deal with the classic, boring hit-and-run bs.
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He's fine. I main Wraith since 2019 and the basekit that we have now was already possible with addons. Yes, even the omega lunge. Only things that need to go are Bone Cappler, Coxcombed Clapper and All Seeing Blood.
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Ive been running all seeing on him. What ive noticed is good survivors get to a pallet and just wait. If i uncloaked in frint if them theyd drop the pallet after i uncloaked but before i could hit. If i got to close theyd drop the pallet and hit him. If i sat on the other side of the loop theyd react to which way i was coming, but it seemed like this was mire 50/50. There was a lot of nuance and counterplay there i didnt appreciate before. It was like a fun minigane where sometimes id get the hit sometimes i wouldnt.
If you go back and watch oracle v tru3 they were doing the same thing.
If i remember right shadow dance makes kicking pallets faster when theyre cloaked. This cucks that pretty hard
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Yes, he's in a great spot and I love him. He's one of my three mains.
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Definitely imbalanced. No counterplay to his lunge unless you are at one of the few pallets on the map. No cooldown. Bodyblocks windows for a free hit. His bell is no longer a sign he is going to stealth but to get a huge uncounterable lunge.
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He shouldn't get a speed boost after uncloaking and I stand by that. It basically takes away the fact that he slows down alot when uncloaking because he gains all the distance back when getting the speed boost. I liked the old wraith, he was a bad killer but not every killer needs to be good. He was basically invincible to new players who didn't pay attention and thats what I liked abt him.
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I'm going to say wraith is at a good spot right now. He's not as broken as everyone says and you can take advantage of wraiths that like to use their lunge a lot in chases. Went against a really good wraith yesterday who demolished my teammates but it left me in a 1v1 with him. The chase lasted almost 2 minutes and it was because I used his mindgames against him to make distance and pathed uniquely in tiles. If he's gonna try to use his post cloak lunge and he doesn't have LOS you can simply run to neighboring tiles to gain back distance and go to safety. On a open tile (Meaning y'all can see each other) it's a 50/50 guess but this game is full of 50/50s. You just gotta read him and hope your right. Wraith is all about mindgames with his cloak. You just gotta read him and act accordingly. Eventually you'll read wrong but the more you play against good wraiths the better you'll get.
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Before his buffs, you could play as new Wraith with the yellow/green/purple windstorm add-on.
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I never like wraith enough to look at his add-ons, what was the windstorm add on?
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It makes him faster while cloaked. That's it. Just makes him faster. That's the only major thing Wraith was given when he was buffed. In fact I can probably argue that old Wraith w/ windstorm was stronger because his movement speed while uncloaking was nerfed to compensate with windstorm being base-kit, and his super lunge is exactly the same as it used to be.
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