List me reasons why people hated old billy enough for him to be nerfed as hard as he did.
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The only thing I didn’t like that was that people would stand in front of a hook and just rev until someone was stupid enough to die from it XD so I guess the unlimited Rev with no cool down
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Critique of the addons was justified. Hillbilly already had a perfect basekit, chainsaw sprit map travesal (which could result in insane hook/gen pressure) and insta down capability (perfect in chases, "gen" sniping, but also for camping).
Wiping all those facts away by saying that "People will complain about everything, especially if they get beaten by somebody who's better then them" is a classical DBD forum move.
If you went against a half way decent Hillbilly with Instasaw, it was more like: beaten by somebody who used overpowered addons. Nobody who's interested in a more balanced game would challenge that.
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Like... Survivors? 😂
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Either the balance dev got camped by a billy like he couldn't hit a skillcheck with lullaby and changed it.. or they wanted to sell more bubba dlc's.
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Considering that Almo was the one saying Freddy's dream pallets were better than the snares, and then nerf both of them, i really don't believe he had little impact on the Billy nerf.
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You forgot the trail of exhaust smoke that he leaves to tell survivors his exact trajectory and where he is from any point on the map.
He has stealth addons while being impossible to stealth with.
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Your first point literally only works against 5 solo survivors. Not a reasonable argument, because there is at least a 2 man swf in almost every game.
Also for the third one you have to consider that Ormond has snow. That's a huge factor you can't miss out on.
Definitely agree with the last one though, nothing to add there.
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No one hated Billy, they only hated his addons, specially insta saw, that is about it.
Now he is just a janky mess, from bad POV, to roar to overheat, those who say "then you needed strong addons to win" really just never played old billy.
A lot was changed and his skill cap got reduced since now you have to actually M1 from time to time.
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The truth is that he was nerfed because every Billy was running instasaw and trying to slug everyone at 5 gens with Infectious Fright. From my experience (it isn't much, I started playing in 2019), almost every other match was Billy and they all played the same way: slug everyone at 5 gens. This of course probably sent his kill rate through the roof, I wouldn't be surprised if he had the kill rate that Freddy had last year.
So yeah, you can blame Billy players for the Billy nerf 🤷
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Everyone stacked charge add-ons because it was extremely easy to do, it's not like you had to really go out of your way to do it.
With Spark Plug (brown) and Primer Bulb (yellow) stacked, you already had 30% faster charge time. You also had Tuning Guide which did basically everything at once.
Blame the devs for making a bad job, not the players for wanting to use strong stuff. All they really needed to do was make things not stack and change the rarities a bit and it would have been fine, but instead they went from one extreme to the other like they usually do.
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I actually agree the charge addons should stay or they at least should have buffed his charge time a little. I'm just saying every Billy back in the day would try to slug everyone with Infectious and instasaw, so it's actually understandable when the devs added a red bar to limit his power and got rid of charge time addons. Was it the right nerf? Of course not.
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He faced camped a lot whilst reving his saw which was rather annoying but sweet when you still escaped. He really didn't deserve to get destroyed like that, the person who allowed it should either undo it or be sacked.
I didn't even play him, just felt bad for those who did.
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And you need to anticipate them juking, going around objects, proximity to windows and pallets and wether you'd get it off in time or not. Like I said not easy.
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Literally, all they needed to do was make it so charge time wasn't stackable OR there was only one charge time addon, which was not a problem on its own. Billy's base charge time + his low speed when taking that charge time in consideration is atrociously bad for chases and always has been. Just one charge time addon was fine. Stacked charge time addons to create Instasaw was the only issue I had with old Billy. Crackbilly was fine imo. Cooldown Billy was strong too, but that's gone as well.
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That wasnt my experience. I was able to just wait around until I knew i could land it and bypass having to hit them twice. Its not very difficult to land for me, only problem I have now is that I can't hold it forever until the right moment.
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And if you missed, no big deal because with no cool down you could just spam the saw again. It was easy, that's why it was nerfed.
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From my experience I had survivors who were familiar with the chainsaw charge time and knew where they could and couldn't be chainsawed. With new Hillbilly the animations and hitboxes it's harder now.
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Except there was a punishment if you missed or hit something a 3 second cooldown that allowed survivors to escape so Hillbilly already had punishment in place if he didn't land an attack. And the current overheat punishes him even more then the punishment already in place.
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"Allowed survivors to escape"....sure whatever you say. His punishment practically did nothing, no loss of vision, you could still move, and you had everything back in 3 seconds. Legion has a bigger punishment for missing his power than Billy did and he doesn't even have a 1 hit down ability.
Billy takes more skill now than he did before, not a whole hell of a lot more, but just enough to drive away the people who used him for his previously easy and forgiving gameplay.
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3 seconds is plenty of time for a survivor to escape to a loop and many loops are brutal for a Billy. Not to mention it takes him 2.5 seconds to charge his saw and he can't curve around like Oni was plenty of time.
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3 seconds is enough to reach a pallet or window.
He takes less skill to play, his power encourages you to eat the survivor's ass (backrevving) and down them while M1ing in loops, instead of going for cool plays like flicks, which'll screw you over because they're trial and error, and overheat will screw you over if you keep messing up.
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The only reason would be instasaw because it was busted, even then it doesn't justify nerfing his base kit.
My guess is just a git gud issue from survs, probably.
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Well we clearly have different experiences. I cant say how he is now, only that before his change I was easily able to rank up, down survivors by just waiting until the right time and go across the map to get another down. I never struggles with him and I was able to play killer. I havent been able to find another killer that was as easy and rewarding to play for very little skill as Hillbilly was for me before his update.
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Have you played with him since?
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Apart from a couple of problematic add ons I do not remember anyone hating on old Billy.
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Well, I believe none of us do, because no one had an actual problem with his base kit.
The only "OP" thing about Billy was the Insta-Saw, and even that can debatable.
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How did having an extremely forgiving ability that could easily get fast downs somehow take more skill? From what I've experienced, being able to figure out the "trial and error" part and not mess up in the first place takes MORE skill than was previously required as it requires more planning and precision. The points you made appear to me as confusing ease of use with skill. Using the gutter bumpers in bowling to get more strikes doesn't make someone a skillful bowler. The Hillbilly wasn't just nerfed for the hell of it, there was a valid reason.
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The devs themselves thought the Hillbilly was a very balanced killer, and presumed that overheat wouldn't do anything but punish campers. 3 seconds is pretty punishing if you ask me btw, I don't think you've ever played Billy.
And I'm afraid that's not how it works. Overheat discourages people from doing the skill-based plays.
I don't think you know how to play against him, but you'll probably learn how to play against him sooner or later.
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Quit with that rhetoric about the devs thinking he was soooo balanced. If that were true they wouldn't have nerfed him.
Overheat gives you 10 seconds of revving before it kicks in, that's plenty of time for a skillful play. You are free to think whatever you want about how I play or if I have played Billy, my personal play style doesn't have jack to do with the reason he was nerfed.
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I mean the devs only intended it to punish campers lol
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damn, your right... i apologize for such a poor research on my part!
here, how do these sound instead?
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did i word them better this time?
i really hope i was able to correctly add the snow factor in Ormond to the third one, i still can not believe that i missed such an obvious factor the first time!
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Billy players shot Billy in the foot. If it wasn't for the fact that his best add-ons were nearly always abused he wouldn't have been so heavily nerfed.
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Honestly I was fine with getting those add-ons removed. I don't like that they abused instasaw. I just wish they didn't mess with his base-kit.
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Honestly, same. And I didn't even have a problem with Insta-Saw.
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Like many others have said, his base kit never needed a nerf. But the issue is also that when survivors see and killer that is good they complain and get it nerfed because they want easy wins. Unfortunately those people are more vocal in the community then the players who just play and counter the killer. So they typically get what they want.
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Yeah, much better now!
Now that you argued that way with the first one, i think you're actually right. It has more depth to it than i originally thought.
No worries, i also almost forgot Ormond too. Definitely makes a huge difference in the end though.
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I hated going against the old Billy, I think I might have had a 1% escape rate vs him. It challenged me though and really did get me focused on the game. I was pretty upset when they announced the revamp, cause I knew he was going to get gutted.
Now... I am sad. No more Sky Billy, no more Flick Billy. No more me being a bit on edge the first time I hear that chainsaw, because now he doesn't scare me at all. Too easy to dodge, too easy to counter. He needs fixed somehow. Before the revamp, the game felt the way it should. A horror survival game. Now it just feels like a casual simulation. So sad...
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No because I cant do what I could before and just have the chainsaw revved up and wait for an opportunity. It sucks I dont have a killer to rely on anymore, but it also means I dont have to go against him/ struggle against him as often since it seems like hes not as prevalent anymore. Speaking from my own experience, it got a lot of players to ranks they didnt belong (myself included).
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Id rather they leave him as is. I'd rather him be too easy to counter and dodge than be like what he was before where he cant just wait out for a chance like I did and get me essentially free downs, kills, and even without that still great mobility.
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I did. Well not that I had a problem with it as playing him, I loved the fact I could have a killer that I could use and win with, it was going against him as players that were as bad as me would get on him and do well. I never shouldve gotten as high in rank as I did playing Billy, and have never gotten above rank 12 since playing other killers. I think he can still do what he was intended to, he just takes more planning and thought now than what I did which was just wait for an opportunity to down someone and bypass having to hit twice then go across the map to get someone else and pretty much always have someone on a hook. I didnt know much about the game or what addons were good, I often just played without addons or just his brown/yellow ones.
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That might explain your success the classical Solo Q and current Hillbilly has his own animations and hitboxes against him.
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DaTa. They seriously think Oni is the strongest killer in the game right now. Let that sink in. The Billy nerf is what happens when you straight up go by numbers instead of actually looking at the mechanics of a killer. Instasaw Billy with Infectious was a monster, but what was preventing survivors from spreading out against a Billy? Nothing. Players are bad and often make absolutely no effort to play around a killer's power. Somebody must've had a really bad experience against a Billy, because it was complete overkill on the first pass instead of tweaking his add ons and seeing where he stood.
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