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Is Wraith Really The New Freddy?
I just went into a match as Wraith with Haunted Undying Dhope and Retribution and I didn't even have a chance to get two stack on Dhope and they all dcd. I normally don't enjoy going against wraith but that is because I personally Do not like his playstyle. But there are some things in this game you are not always going to agree with and other people have their right to disagree. But to DC on Temple against wraith with 0 Gen defense is silly
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People don't know how to play against Wraith for some damn reason.
I still think Freddy is stronger than Wraith, even though Wraith can counter W meta.
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I think he is, at very least most of my games against Wraith with all seeing eyes addon + silent bells.
Also I did play Wraith and my performance was the best with him, reached red rank 3, after switching fallen down to rank 8.
Anyway I dont play killer anymore, but most of my games against Wraith, and I really dont understand what I am supposed to against Wraith, other than camping very strong positions, ready to vault, he eats pallets like nothing after that game over if resources lost.
Biggest problem for me how brainless he is, and the fact only good survivors stand a chance, if you arent a very decent looper he destroy teams, so in solo he is very very very strong and the mix to his all seeing eye addon, and brainless gameplay, he is the new freedy, sometimes I am so bored because all I have to play against Wraith with his op addons.
Also the fact he has extreme speed because of base windstorm and push a button health state lost, without spine chill cant even escape even then almost always take a health state, and see u all the time thanks to his addon, mostly you cant even hear the bells, because of addon, and he is invisible more than 20meter away.
So strong, so annoying, so brainless
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Any time a killer that's not as difficult to play as nurse/blight etc gets buffed enough to be actually good, survivors lose their ######### and call him too strong for how easy he is to play.
There's nothing wrong with wraith, he's finally good and hopefully devs won't revert any of the good changes they made for him nor add any new drawbacks. The only thing that would be ok is to tweak some of the stronger addons but that's it.
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Yes.
He's a middling killer that mildly annoys survivors, so some people are calling him broken.
Just like Freddy was.
Post edited by Rizzo on18 -
I almost never play against Freddy, if he is so strong why noone plays him?
Freddy dont even have powers and his addons are trash, maybe good for gen control, but he really has nothing. I dont fear Freddy at all
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what I mean is survivors just DC against him all the time like the old new freddy.
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Yeah ik, I don't understand it either.
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They moved onto Wraith after Freddy got nerfed.
The Freddy nerf did absolutely nothing so idk why they went to Wraith.
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I do agree that the all seeing is bs and needs to be taken care of. But That's like the only thing other than his silent bell that needs change. I don't agree with that god awful lunge length even tho it was supposedly always that length. All - Seeing should be changed to do something other than to read auras or decrease the lunge and or cloak movement speed. I feel it needs a downside to it. coxcomb clapper should also make him much slower in cloak or much much slower coming out of cloak. movement and uncloak imo. I don't think he should have all these great pluses with no downside to it.
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Calling him the new Freddy is a stretch but he is pretty strong considering he has virtually no skill ceiling.
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I find wraith games somewhat uninteresting... like there's not much happening tbh.
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Because he had way too much for very little effort. The nerf didn't really change his gameplay, people simply don't use him as much anymore because his kit was watered down, and because his power is just..boring. The isn't really anything special about Freddy, other than the fact that he is freaking Freddy Krueger himself.
I still think a straight up nerf was unnecessary, and what he truly needed was a rework.
Edit: He is still stronger than Wraith tho.
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I didnt mean it strength wise. I just mean it survivor DC wise. Although I think once they bring back the DC penalty it will slow down.
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Oh, he IS special, though. He comes with unique map filters via the dream world.
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Lol no Wraith is still terrible. For some reason Wraith really triggers lower level survivors. I remember being new and getting extremely mad when a Wraith would body block a window or something. Even with the buffs he's still fundamentally Wraith and he still has a slow uncloak and still is a glorified M1 killer.
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Wraith requires a different strategy to play against then most other killers in the game. He also has some really good add-ons that remove a lot of weaknesses. People would rather dc then learn the unique styles needed to counter the different versions of Wraith.
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The Nightmare is a licensed killed, wraith is free. Freddy started off as very weak, so he wasn't popular to buy. Buying him for the add-ons aren't worth it either.
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Both are extremely overrated killers that survivors refuse to use more than 2 braincells to play against. So yeah.
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No, but all seeing blood and the bell silencer seriously need to go. He doesn’t need busted add ons like these anymore that he’s a good killer.
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Well they are both C-tier right now so, perhaps you can say so.
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His lunge is my main issue, he has absurd speed which allows him to travel map easily, its practically impossible to make meaningful distance from him, cause he can just bait out any form of defense such has Sprint Burst, he can immediately cloak back after hitting a survivor making the dmg speed useless.
Basically, he is too bloody easy and forgiving for what he can do, and Trickster is becoming like that too.
If you want to nerf this guy then his cloak should have a CD, that way he is punished for failed ambushes nor he can double ambush anymore.
Theres also the issue with his addons
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I agree with ASB, but the Coxcombed Clapper is perfectly balanced. If you are not looking around you, that's your fault, doubly so if you already know it's a stealth killer. Silent bell only helps if you use tall obstacles to hide your uncloak, which is only really possible in jungle gym gens and main buildings, and those have always been vulnerable to Undetectable killers making sneak attacks. Plus his snarl still gives him away compared to a Ghostface or a 115 with Tinkerer taking the same route.
Anyway, I kind of guess Wraith could be the new Freddy? Buffed from bad to fairly good and became common to see as a result, extremely easy to play, solid returns for low skill, kind of a map mobility for dummies killer.
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I’d rather have Freddy back over wraith right now
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Well, yes. But he always had this.
The nerf didn't touch it, and the rework only made it worse.
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Unfortunately the problem is that many gens are surrounded by walls, so without spine chill, the wraith can easily get a hit.
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I personally think the issue with wraith is his addons and not his basekit. He has some cool addons but I would love to see a few of them (all seeing to be specific) to be nerfed a bit.
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Help a brother out here, How do I counter that?
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While cloaked as Wraith, you move at a STUNNING 150% speed with no add-ons. You can take advantage of this by cloaking to catch up to a survivor during a chase.
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Nonono, I mean as a Survivor.
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Oh. I guess you can try to use a decent loop. Windows and pallets hinder Wraith, and predropping unsafe pallets can be useful at times.
Don't take offense to what I said btw, Wraith wasn't a very common killer back then so it's understandable if you have trouble playing against him. (In other words, sorry if I sounded aggressive on my first post saying people don't know how to play against Wraith.)
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Most people still do not know what to do against a decent Wraith.
He is not bad anymore and can finaly get some action. Survivors can no longer tbag and flashlight clicker him into oblivion and get triggered by that. But he has a descent ammount of counterplay and is still an M1 killer for the most. People just assume he is still the same old Wraith and try to finish a generator while he is uncloaking next to them.
I played a few rounds Wraith just yesterday and most times people try to do exactly the same stuff they did to him befor his buff. Of course they eat hits if they play that cocky way. They need to adjust a bit and then everything will be fine.
I like going against Wraith as a survivor. Playing him gave me enough informations what he can do and what he can not do to counter him. He can lunge around small loops that would be unsafe anyway. Big deal, you should leave those tiles anyway...
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People unironically called Wraith the worst killer in the game before Tru3 started pointing out his high-level strategies
Now, almost completely unchanged, people are rabid about how supposedly "broken" he is
This community is guided entirely by speculative what-ifs and youtube videos
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Well he was a really weak killer before they buffed him. But honestly know he has little counterplay because he can just spam his bell and catch up then get a massive speedboost upon uncloaking, that is the length of the loop the majority of the time. And that is without any addons.
Basically he has the mobility of Billy and the lethality of Bubba, forcing survivors to predrop pallet to avoid getting hit.
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My only guess is that while the nerf didn't do much in terms of his strength, it did numbers to his enjoyability factor, which also matters a lot despite people desperately trying to say otherwise. Being slowed down everytime you use your power doesn't exactly sound fun nor does it feel in any way good to use, does it? It's the same thing they did to Billy, Pyramid Head and Nurse: their ability changes didn't change how good they were and instead just made them feel like crap to play.
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What enjoyability? He's literally unchanged. Find me anyone who'd seriously say "oh yes these slowdown add-ons are so fun to use, they totally increase the fun factor of this killer 10wise, a total playstyle changer" because those add-ons are the only thing that had any relevant impact on his change
And the slowdown only applies when you hold your snare, not while you charge it. What Freddy just holds the snare instead of insta placing it?
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Exactly. Wraith was fine where he was at before the buff. He was a non-skill killer that was a solid C killer. Now he's up there with Spirit, needing some nerfs. A killer that doesn't require a single brain-cell to use should not be this powerful.
- Rework Tier - Nurse
- Nerf Tier - Spirit, Wraith, Blight
- A Tier - Freddy, Billy
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That's also true. It made Freddy even more boring to play as.
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Can anyone of the peeps flooding wraith topics with comments like "Wraith is fine, survivors just need braincells or something" explain how are you actually supposed to play against him? I don't think that's ever been done, and as a killer main who decided to play survivor for challenges in the last few days, i've been encountering that game design travesty in about third of my games. I've seen 4(4!!!) spirits and more than 30 wraiths. Surely if there was some adequate way to counter him on most maps, there wouldn't be so goddamn many wraith gamers, would there?
Completely removing all the restrictions that his power had was bad, just admit it. His power doesn't even need a stealth component anymore, it's just that good. Compare it to poor ghostface's power, it's laughable how much that guy pays for stealth privilege compared to "but he was always so weak, devs plesse make him one of the worst killers to play against " bingy boy.
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The way you beat Wraith is you have to pay attention and don't get complacent you don't have the luxury of the terror radius to tell you he's near so you need to pay attention to what's around you have an exit strategy in mind, keep track of the UI so you know what he's up to and most importantly
Don't panic. What gets people with Wraith is what gets people with Myers and Ghostface he comes out of nowhere and messes up whatever plan you had in mind if you keep cool once he's uncloaked and used up that lunge he's nothing but a normal M1 killer.
Don't rely on the terror radius to do all of the heavy lifting, keep alert, keep focused, pay attention to the killer's strategy. Does he like to block pallets, Does he like to uncloak on a particular side, How long does he keep a chase going before cloaking and bothering someone else, what addons is he using? The thing about wraith is it is easy to tell what addons he has on as they affect his bell noise, movement speed, and breaking animation if you figure that out you've got a way into his mind
Always has been
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I think a lot of people are getting tired of Hit and Run/Speed boost Wraith which can be pretty annoying. But I don't hate him at all.
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Yep, same old "just be alert", also known as just bait it out, and some meaningless general quotes like "pay attention to killer's strategy"(actually had a good laugh with this one, thank you). So I guess we known know the counterplay to spirit - just pay attention to her strategy :D
Good try, but wraith's current state is undefendable, sad but true.
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I gave you the mindset I've lived by as well as some counter tips from someone who has played Wraith for a bit since 2018. I didn't go into quite as much detail but I think I did "A pretty good job", If you don't want to listen to my advice and shrug it off, that's you. By going immediately to bad faith "Wow you say pay attention to killer strats, guess you could say the same about Spirit XDXD" something tells me you've already projected quite a bit onto me. (As if keeping track of what a player does so you can mindgame em isn't the core of the game)
He's a killer that bypasses the terror radius and has great ease in getting around the map, but in a chase he's still a standard killer. The lack of TR notification is certainly a bother but overcomeable, the Wraith still has to beat you in a chase and while a surprise uncloak may give him the first hit, its up to both of you if that leads to a down or not. Better a dozen wraiths than a single Deathslinger who ALSO has a small terror radius with the addition of a power that utterly breaks the gameplay loop the game is built on
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man once you find a good team that plays against wraith.. you will realize this. It is painful to go against a good team as wraith
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So what happened was, a certain popular survivor streamer started whining that "Wraith is the new freddy" and "he's not wholesome anymore".
So the sheep followed and simply use it as an excuse.
I'm sorry, but if a group of survivors, even solos, is getting chiefed on by a WRAITH of all killers, even with his buffs, they may as well uninstall.
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Not if survivors have flashlights.
There's no counter for that. Can't look away, can't decloak quicker than they can lightburn you, it's like a portable, reusable pallet.
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What's wrong with a killer being easy and simple to use? You're saying they're only allowed to be good if you have to get a Ph.D. for them?
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Wraith is one of those characters that people refuse to believe is good because he was so bad for the longest time, the thing is that he has gotten so many small buffs over the years that he is good now, his biggest buff being the fact that most maps that were reworked were basically turned into dead zones and most pallets are now unsafe. He can basically get to your face, uncloak and with his burst of speed he can get a guaranteed free hit almost every time, his speed burst basically lets him do the same with most pallets and TL walls.
A few years back most maps were vastly populated instead of being dead zones, we had lots of windows and safe pallets that basically made his speed burst useless, with all those reworked into tiny unsafe loops and generators that spawn on dead zones his speed burst now makes a difference.
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on3 -
Calling wraith an m1 killer is wrong. Out of all my wraith games this week i've encountered only one wraith that actually chased without cloaking. He got destroyed. If you base your advices on on a non-existant, almost mythical playstyle, then please don't act all defensive when people call them stupid
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Ok, I hope this isn't the actual reason. Because, if it is, then those are the most dumb complaints I've ever seen.
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i didn't actually know someone that happen to be a streamer is complaining. I'm just complaining on my own little corner ahah
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