Do you think safe pallets are a good design?
Title. I want to hear opinions.
Comments
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Depends.
If it's Shack Pallet, sure. Since while it's one of the safest pallets in the game, there is stilll potential of getting hits from it before it gets dropped.
But stuff like the pallets near Gideon's Basement, or the SEVERAL god pallets in RCPD.... No... Just no. It's just free distance for the survivors.
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As long as Bloodlust exists - yes, safe Pallets are a good design. You need those with Bloodlust, you need Pallets which need to be broken.
Personally, I think there should be no Bloodlust, very few safe Pallets on each Map and a huge number of unsafe Pallets. Unsafe Pallets are playable by Killers, they are fair. The better player wins.
And IMO it would be a better design, because good Survivors will be rewarded. Everyone can play a Longwall-Pallet, but playing unsafe Pallets is more difficult.
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When used sparingly yes. If every pallet was unsafe certain killers would be way too strong
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I pretty much agree with this.
It rewards Survivors for chaining loops better but gives them little room to feel safe around a certain loop.
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By themselves yes, but when there's like 5 per map or in the same area it's incredibly stupid and unfair.
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Yes, sometimes you have to force the killer to break a pallet to get him out of blood lust, so it's a necessity.
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you realize that indoor maps like Gideon do not have a shack or "safe version" jungle gym pallets, same for every other indoor map. those safe pallets/god pallets are replacing those tiles. are any of them good design?
In my opinion, no because just make generators artificially shorter as they extend chase with practically very little effort or skill. they're basically bad design. those pallets are basic reason why tiers of killers are so severe in DBD. It comes down to "Does the killer counter hold W strats from breaking these pallets?" and "can the killer gets hit at tile sets when played safely?". If the answer is yes to both, they end up being S-tier. If its only one of them, they end up being A-tier and if its none of them, they end up being B or lower C-D(If people hate playing these killers).
as long as those pallets exist and there are more then 2 of them on each map, the only other way for killers to scapegoat this pallet design is 1 second or less pallet break if their power has no hold-W counter or tile set play.
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I just don't want god pallets to exist. The killer should be able to do something to get you once the pallet is dropped, and at these there isn't anything. Safe pallets are kind of like god pallets except you can still do something against survivors, once it's dropped, to get them, even if that's getting to bloodlust 1.
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Bloodlust is the most overrated thing in this game. If you have a pallet loop with 2 long sides, or even 1 long side, bloodlust 3 won't even get you to the survivor. And even if it does, you've already wasted a game-throwing amount of time in that chase.
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It depends how you want the game to be designed. If you want it to be more startegic and about resource preservaiton then make pallets very safe but have a small amount. If you want the game to be more about reading your opponent and outplaying them in a chase then make more unsafe pallets and less safe pallets. DBD aims to be somewhere in the middle so a few safe pallets is good but on some maps like the game it becomes neither conserving them because of the amount and there is no mindgames etc cause you just drop a pallet and run to the next and repeat.
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Yes but they need to be done right. They're the equivalent of very unsafe pallets where hit is nearly guaranteed.
Both need to be designed and placed properly though, too many of either in one spot can lead to pretty dumb scenarios.
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Some should exist but most maps have far to many of them. I mean Midwitch vs Doc's map are a great example, both of them have 1 super god pallet that just ends the chase right then and there but at Midwitch most tiles have solid counterplay where as Doc's map most pallets are all extremely safe and must be broken to continue chase, thus making that god pallet completely unfair.
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I'd rather have more jungle gyms/TL walls, and less pallet-between-2-rocks bullsh1t. Those are the most boring loops in the game, you just walk around a couple times, drop, break, repeat. I like jungle gyms because it's 2 people running through a small maze trying to predict each other, there's satisfaction to be had.
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There are too many safe pallets in dead by daylight please limit?
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By the themselves? Yeah, they're fine.
The game's (map)? Please put me out of my misery. They went overboard with them in my opinion.
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Just safe Pallets? No.
Just risky Pallets? No.
A mix of both? Yeah.
Well, y'know, as long as they're not TOO safe or TOO risky.
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a safe pallet is pallet that survivor can camp and that killer is never in distance to lunge to get a hit and if the killer rotates the pallet, they tend to be bloodlust 3 infinity. examples..... Badham pallet underneath, Shack, single Long-wall short wall Pallets, classic jungle gyms. Basically if you can camp it and react to killer going on either side than its safe pallet. I tend to just draw an invisible red line in my head on the floor and if the killer crosses it, you vault.
filler pallets can also be safe pallets such as azeroth resting place with double truck loops, the crane pallet on ormond/azeroth, the huge hay stack loops in coldwind farm on edge of the map and many others. its like 60%-70% of DBD.
Unsafe pallet is pallet where the survivor has to rotate a pallet where survivor has to guess to fake vault or vault pallet and the killer options are to keep walking forward or double back on each corner. Badham car pallets outside of the school are like this. most of midwitch elementary school pallets in classrooms, dead dog saloon pallets. the main problem with them though is that if you do outplay the killer for a prologue period of time, they end up getting blood lust in which they get a hit by force.
its strange how the survivor side can 1vs1 better most of the time than killer side in asymmetric game.
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I'm gonna be the guy that says 'Yes'.
We shouldn't have 5 side-by-side or linking into each other, and obviously god pallets should be minimum to non-existant (Like, we don't need 10 shacks in the game, but Lery's doesn't need to have an unstoppable pallet in every hallway either.)
But unless Bloodlust goes away, or we don't have as many chase-heavy Killers (Like, Killers that can end chase at a ton of pallets in like .2 seconds if they're good, generally regardless of Survivor skill) then I think it's fine as it is.
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Personally I feel that no loop are pallet should feel or be safe. I feel that all loops should be mindgameable. I would slightly nerf jungle gyms though due to the simple fact that survivor's can peek around corners very easily.
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A few of them are OK, but I think mind game pallets are alot more interesting to use than a safe pallet
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Depends what you consider safe.
Some streamers say c walls on coldwind are safe even tho they get hit 4 secs later
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I think 1 safe pallet should be on a map but more then 3 I feel like is too much.
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Safe pallets aren't a "design" by themselves. They are just a tool that is part of the larger map and gameplay design.
Used well, safe pallets can be fine. But there are a lot of factors to take into account. How big is the map ? How close are the other pallets ? Is this a tight indoor map ? A wide open one ? How long are the loops ? How tall ?
I personally like the idea of signature landmarks of maps having strong pallets, while the rest of the randomly generated map elements should be less reliable. The problem is that some old maps don't really have landmark structures and many generic tiles are very strong for survivors.
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what.. the car loops outside of badham are unsafe. No clue what your talking about with breakable walls. The regular jungle gyms and shack pallet are not possible to mindgame with traditional 115% m/s killers I.e you will not get hits at these pallets vs any survivor that has basic understanding of looping when the pallet is dropped.
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People forget that Safe pallets once destroyed are just a one-way ticket to death once removed. the reason they're safe is because there's no other option for the killer. No safe pallet means there's no other option for the survivor except to take a hit.
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why don't we petition to get rid of all pallets?
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Tell me where the risk is in 90% of the loops in this game? as long as you watch the killer they can't do anything about them. The only unsafe loop in the game is T pallets if you let the killer get you on the wrong side or they are a lagy sob. and LT gyms if you are not paying attention.
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Sadly I doubt it will ever happen as blood lust is still needed to counter all the infinite loops in the game.
I mean there still are pseudo infinites like the upstairs saloon window even with bloodlust that even when it gets blocked leads into another god window down stairs. Let alone it always spawns next to shack.
Just imagine how much of that map would have to change to remove bloodlust and that is only one map.
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you are saying a heresy!
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I think pallets, just loops in general like the really long rocks in Temple, where the killer can do absolutely nothing except bloodlust are genuinely awful. A killer should either be able to mindgame it, be forced to break it, or both. The survivor shouldn't be able to endlessly loop, never drop the pallet, and not get punished for it. It doesn't require any skill, it just forces the killer to walk in a circle, disrespect the pallet, hope the survivor messes up, and for what? A measly hit after .
I know there are other but I can't think of them. Regardless... they're horrible. Nobody's having fun, nobody's really winning, and if you're not an anti-loop killer it makes you wanna leave the game and that's not fun. (However if you are an anti loop killer they don't even try to loop they just run in a straight line, dropping pallets, and overall not even attempting to loop. I say all of this when people do this vs bloody Ghostface like... you can not be a less interesting survivor.)
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but what are you saying? reread what you wrote please! you say everything and the opposite of everything!
1) the killer is faster than the survivor, so you can't go around a rock indefinitely!
2) as you said there are strong survivors in the loop and strong killers in the anti-loop. but there are also survivors who can't loop, killers who can't hit ... the game is, on the whole, balanced for all types of players. sometimes you will encounter maps in your favor, sometimes not! sometimes you will find strong survivors, sometimes not! if you win good for you! if you lose, take the loss and move on to the next game! this game is neither for the survivors nor for the killers! it depends on the case!
Then there is the skill of the players: it is the only thing that makes the difference!
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I'm okay with 2-3 safe pallets on the map, but there can definitely be too many. Games are fun when the players have options -- getting forced to kick a pallet because the tile's designed so that you won't have any choice is not fun, IMO.
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