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Countering Invisibilty
BHVR has adopted a game style where everything has a counter and, I am generally a fan of this style of game. Coming from a long history with CCG's, everything should have a counter.
That being said, I think it's time for a Perk that counters Invisibilty to an extent. My thought is something like "Third Eye" perk for Survivors. Revealing Killers who are invisible but, also revealing yourself to the Killer.
What do you guys think? Currently, it would only really counter 3 possibly 4 Killers in the game at the trade off of revealing yourself to an Invisible Killer. This could open the door to more "Ghostie" type Invisible Killers as well if we have a proper counter for it.
Comments
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That's just old OoO
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DId that work while someone was invisible?
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Also, it wouldn't have any affect against Killers who are never invisible.
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Adding a perk which reveals invisible Killers would completely ruin the game for stealth Killers, you're basically completely denying Ghost Face's power, or making the early game too difficult for Michael.
Stealth already has a counter, which is to use your eyes and ears and not play like a bot, failing that, you can use Spine Chill.
As always, SWF would abuse such a perk the most, imagine you are playing Ghost Face against a team in comms, one person has this perk. The whole team now knows where you are whenever you use your power, so you're in fact getting punished for using your power, and you have little chance to win.
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So a perk that’s useless against 22 killers but will be oppressive against just Spirit and Wraith? Absolutely not a good idea.
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2 words. Spine chill
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Is it oppresive if you are also revealed? Remember these Killers are crazy fast while invisible. Don't forget that Freddy can be invisible too.
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A perk only viable against only 2 of 20+ killer would not be very appealing, even when saying that this would open the possibilities for more invisible killer. Especially since the possible applications of said invisibility as a killer power would really lack variety.
Plus it would be one more tool becoming way more effective in swf with coms, where all in the group could benefit from it instead of only the user.
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Ghost and Myers are never "invisible", you can always see them physically.
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In your first post you said this would counter 3 or 4 Killers, which 3 or 4 are these then if we're talking about true "invisibility"? I assumed what you really meant was stealth Killers who can use undetectable status (which would be GF, Myers, Wraith)
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Spirit, Wraith, Freddy, and possibly Nurse although, I'm not sure that is really invisible.
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Nurse basically turns into a blurry effect or something, she moves so fast anyway I don't think seeing her mid blink would add anything.
Also as far as I know, Freddy only disappears for very brief moments so I don't think this perk would really help with him either, his invisibility doesn't really contribute much to his power.
I guess it would help with Wraith and Spirit, who are both played quite a lot as well.
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Spirit can't see aura's in phase, and Freddy only goes invisible for brief moments of time, so the perk would be absolutely useless against him.
This is what old OoO did before the Undetacable status changes, and it was changed for a reason.
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I think it would make more sense to build perks around Undetectable, because then this perk would work in way more situations:
- Wraith
- Ghost Face
- Pig
- Myers
- Demo (after he teleports)
- Insidious users
- Spirit possibly (does her husk emit the terror radius, so her phasing is undetectable? not sure)
Did I miss some?
Even then I feel like showing where they are at all times would be OP
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and Tinkerer of course
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Spine chill exists. Nothing else needed.
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You guys seem to want to make it more encompassing to counter more Killers, I think being only against Invisible Killers kind of balances the idea, often times the perk is useless.
As far as Spirit not being able to see auras while phased, this perk would overrule that, she could see you and, you could see her.
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What's the point of having the status be a part of a killer's kit if a perk exists that thoroughly robs it of its usefulness? Which was the exact issue they changed for Object of Obsession. Stealth states become meaningless when people can aura read you while in that state. You've got spine chill, alert, premonition, etc. to use as a soft counter.
Let the sneaky killers actually be able to sneak in peace.
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Devs have already stated to not want Perks that very much counter a specific Killer's Power.
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Not trying to "break" any Killers, that's not the intention. The intention is to counter a strong and often complained about mechanic while sacrificing yourself being revealed.
I understand the hesistance and welcome the discussion.
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Invisibility which is something only a few killers have should not have a counter. We don't need hard counters to killer powers.
Now if we're talking undetectable, run Spine Chill or Premonition. Undetectable exists to avoid aura reading so adding a perk to see the aura of undetectable killers is a no go.
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I literally made this exact point in one of my previous posts in this thread, and I said showing where they are would still be OP. I'm saying that targetting Invisibility is useless, something that works off Undetectable would offer more in-game interaction, but it would have to be weaker than showing the Killer's aura at all times. A quick example: something like the reverse of the Killer perk whispers, e.g. the survivor gets some subtle audio indicator when a Killer goes undetectable within a radius.
That's not a good example of balance, a perk being either totally overpowered and game breaking, or being totally useless. Those two states don't balance each other out as they are both broken states.
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Ok Freddy too. It’s basically just like old Object where you will always be able to see the aura of the killer if it’s Freddy and Wraith because they’re usually invisible and it really doesn’t matter if the killer can see you. Also with Spirit you’ll have too much information which means no mind games even if she can see you. Also if you’re in SWF then you’ll be able to tell your friend exactly what she’s doing. On top of all this it’s completely useless against killers that aren’t Spirit, Wraith, or Freddy, which is the same issue Stridor had which was useless on most killers but oppressive on Spirit.
I’m sorry but it’s just not a good idea.
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Ehm yeah that's what i said? Any reason you quoted me other than to further elaborated my points? Or wrong quoted post? ;P
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all the way up until the demogorgon midchapter (bugfix patch) it worked on t1 myers, pig crouching, wraith cloaking, and ghostfaces nightshroud old old object of obsession was extremely oppressive
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Ooo used to work like this before undetectable, you could see crouched pigs and cloaked wraiths, it destroyed ghostface more than any of them, only tier 1 Myers and old Freddy were immune.
Spine chill works well enough on stealth killers and the only two killers I can think of that go fully invisible are wraith and spirit, I think wraith is counterable enough anyway and spirit isn't but being able to see her all times would actually destroy her, way more than iron will or spine chill, and again is using perks to fix balance issues which I want bhvr to do less of really.
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😐😬 yep wrong comment. I’m frikin exhausted right now I’m sorry 😂
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Wraith is visible though?
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*click**click* Has anyone tried a flashlight?
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Only within a certain distance, at that point it would cut off.
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Yes wraith used to be a ######### character because he was slow as ######### and could be seen across the map despite being meant to be stealth. Stealth is already probably the weakest thing in the game it does not need a hard counter.
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Killers have a status called 'Undetectable' meaning the killer is in stealth status and cannot be detected. This needs to be a thing so stealth Killers stand a chance.
If you have a problem with stealth Killers you need to be more vigilant or run Spine Chill
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Just food for thought. I think the main reason I think this could be reasonalbe would be to finally end the debate of no counter to Spirit without nerfing Spirit altogether.
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Spine Chill and Premonition both exist.
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Spine Chill? Flashlight?
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Homie that's literally Spine Chill...Except instead of a audio cue you get a visual one.... If you use Premonition you get an audio cue instead of a visual one.....
How is this so hard to understand. Like I even took a minute to double check just to make sure my brain wasn't rotting. What you're asking for has existed in the game LONGER THAN UNDETECTABLE AND IS ARE GENERAL PERKS THAT EVERY SURVIVOR GETS FOR FREE(Free as in they're in every bloodweb not free as in costs nothing)
These perks legit do the exact thing you're asking for in the exact situation you're asking for. Always have.
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Completely ignoring spine chill, premonition, etc.
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Not really, spine chill triggers when they are looking at you, I'm saying this would be triggered on going undetectable, clearly not the same thing, if you apply some thought to it. The counter play to spine chill (moonwalking) would not work on this perk, and it could also deal with greater activation distances, and lower cooldowns, in order to differentiate the perk.
Anyway, that was a quick example off the top my head, to illustrate some use of undetectable, rather than invisibility, which is pointless and applies to 2 killers in the whole game. I'm not saying go and make that perk, it was a quick example to illustrate my point.
Don't worry, I know how spine chill works, if you were following the thread you may have seen my other post were I said "did you try using spine chill", but thanks for trying to educate me on spine chill, anyway.
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What is the point of having a status called Undetectable if survivors having something that triggers when a killer gains it letting them know the killer is now undetectable? That defeats the purpose of any killer trying to use the status effect designed specifically to make it so you can catch survivors off guard. Spine Chill triggers when they look at you, but Premonition triggers when you're looking in the killer's general direction. Doesn't matter if they're trying to moonwalk up because you have a 45 degree cone with a 36 meter detection range that should they cross into it you get an audio cue.
It just requires you be actively sweeping the camera around which you should be doing in the first place.
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Hey, Calm Spirit wants to have a word with you!
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This is just straight up pre nerf object of obsession that also ignores undetectable. Absolutely a bad idea.
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Yes, it still is. Survivors purposefully running the old object of obsession to be able to relay the killer's location to their team mates while happily juking and looping the killer has shown that quite clearly.
Having your aura revealed as survivor is no danger, the killer still has to actually catch you. All it does is tell the killer where to look for you, that's literally it.
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But then procides to buff ironwill and not fix it
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Better yet flashbang
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I don't know about that. Spirits main downfall is that she can't actually see you while phased. If you gave her that information because you are revealed, she is way faster than you while phased.
It was really more of just a thought, should this mechanic have a counter? It's one of the biggest gripes on the forum, that Spirit gives no information and has no counter.
Wraith and Freddy invisibilty has no counter until they are very close. I understand some information Perks already exist, many people seem to think that is enough, possibly it is.
I'm not ignoring other information Perks, this is an idea specifically and only to reveal Killers while they are invisible and also reveal yourself to them. I think a counter like this makes sense given the game has adopted a system of counters for everything. It would also open doors for other Invisible mechanics for new Killers and concepts that wouldn't be too oppressive if there is an actual counter for those situations.
Spine Chiil tells you nothing when a Spirit is mindgaming you for example.
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Maybe it should be more of a counter to “undetectable” or “oblivious” status effects.
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