Bt and ds don't help at all when the killer wants to tunnel!!!

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It is and remains absolutely incomprehensible to me that there is still no real counter against tunneling. You can always hear sentences like "it's not against the rules", "tunneling is a legitimate strategy", "bring ds", "bring bt", "the rescuer should tank a hit" and so on. At the same time it is clear to everyone that if the killer wants to tunnel, all this advice will help absolutely nothing. When it comes to the endgame it's one thing, but when the killer tunnels a survivor out as fast as possible from the start, I think it's more than frustrating for the person involved on the one hand, and on the other hand it gives the killer too extreme an advantage. It's kind of like the old mori, which was changed for a reason... and it's still very strong when used in a pinch. Everybody knows that an early kill influences the further game decisively, because from then on it's a 3 vs 1.

What bothers me the most is the fact that a survivor can't really resist being quickly tunneled out of the game. Borowed time can be waited for a short time by the killer or he hits and stays on the survivor. Of course the survivor then has the short speed boost, but his vision is impaired during the further chase and a jump into the looker to use ds is no longer possible, because the timer expires. This brings us to ds: the previous nerf I personally find partly not bad, because ds can no longer be abused so easily. However, that ds is an anti-tunnel-perk, was said by the devs only a while ago, before it was also called by the devs as secondchanceperk and explicitly not as anti-tunnel-perk (this was always bt). Now that it has been adjusted accordingly, I would like to know why it hardly brings anything? Every killer comes effortlessly after the short stun... so why was the stun not extended? Why is it deactivated when you use an instaheal as a tunneled? Why does it deactivate after 60 seconds even though you are still tunneled? Why can it only be used once although you can be tunneled twice?

I assume that many people who read this will scream that ds is one of the strongest perks and doesn't need a buff, but I think my previous questions about this are justified...

And by the way, the killer can use all tactics that survivors find unfair or frustrating without any perks: camping, slugger and tunneling. So why are the supposed counters against it (bt, ds, ub) perks and not also basekit? This I ask only to clarify that survivors must use appropriate perks/perkplaces and these should then also please have a real effect.

So, to all who have come this far thank you very much and now I'm very curious about your opinions regarding tunnelling and the perks against it.

Comments

  • GuyFawx
    GuyFawx Member Posts: 2,021
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    Flash bangs help the most to push killers off of you if your being tunneled mostly it’s not a fix all but they help

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @Kees_T

    I‘m not interested in a free escape and btw I play both.

    I just ask for your real opinion about ds and bt, do you think it prevents a survivor to get hard tunneled out of the match during the first two minutes?

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @Tryandstopme

    I’m not complaining I ask just for your opinions. I would say I‘m very competent in chases and I really like to interact with the killer, so I don’t need your „friendly“ tip.

  • FilthyLegionMain
    FilthyLegionMain Member Posts: 1,148
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    Why not have the ds timer freeze when being chased or slugged? If you wanna hook them then either eat the ds or make sure that bastard bleeds.

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @Tsulan

    I wrote you my opinion about genspeed in another post, so you know it.

    The only problem is the survivor spawn at the begin of a trail. This have to be adjust. But unlike anti-tunnel-perks, the killer can do something against genrush with its perks: ruin, undying, pop, surge, corrupt intervention and so on. DS only gives the survivor a few more seconds of chase, but that's it against a reasonably capable killer

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @CraftyBoi456

    For example, the DS timer could stop during the chase so it would be more an anti-tunnel-perk.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    Survivor spawn isn´t the only problem. As the killer could get 1 or 2 hooks before the survivors get their first gen done, but then they push gens and he ends with 4 or 5 by the time the gates are powered.

    And regarding the other thread, you didn´t answer my last message.

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @OldHunterLight

    Nice, you complain about genrush while you don’t use pop or something and camp... interesting. Maybe the gens fly in your games cause you don’t try to defend them and stay near the hook.

    I really like if killer prefer bbq (for bloodpoints) and than tunnel and camp cause the evil survivors can do their gens.

    But the point is you expect gens should go slower, cause you don’t want use a slowdown perk but survivor should use a perkslot to have a better chance against tunnling...

    I‘m happy that you agree in one thing before :)

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @ciara1999

    If a killer commit to a 5 minutes chase the gens are already finished and he should learn, when to quit a chase^^

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @Tsulan

    I have copy my answer:

    I love to play trapper and hag, so in all my games the first 2-3 gens pops before I have my first hook and I still get 2-4 kills. Or with my plague I use lethal pursuer, see all four survivors spawn together and go there and infect 2-3 of them and chase the fourth one... it’s a dream <3

  • WishIcouldmain
    WishIcouldmain Member Posts: 4,081
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    Try Second Wind personally I’ve found it to work very well

  • Clevite
    Clevite Member Posts: 4,335
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    Nothing can really stop a tunneling killer from removing a person from the game if they so choose.

    But, it's a team game. And at some point your teammates should assist if they see a person getting tunneled out. But, of course this is rare in selfish q.

    These are the reasons many choose to SWF.

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @ciara1999

    I wrote it before in this post. I personally haven’t a problem with getting tunneled, I love chases and I think I‘m not that bad ;)

    I‘m more interested in your real thoughts about the effect of ds and bt, do you think it prevents survivor for tunnling and it gives them a real chance to escape from a chase after the hook?

  • Hektic3000
    Hektic3000 Member Posts: 674
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    If the killer wants you dead then you're just going to die, accept that you cant survive every trial and move on. The only way to prevent this is to be better than the killer or have reliable teammates. DEATH IS ALWAYS AN OPTION UNTIL YOU ARE ON THE TALLY SCREEN.

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @Tryandstopme

    Don‘t get me wrong but I think it’s a interesting theme that has to be discussed and when I see that you are new I ask me why you were here? Only to leave salty comments?

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @ciara1999

    Thanks for your opinion, it’s nice to see/read this. Personally I prefer ds, cause it save my life in endgame so often

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @ciara1999

    I love dance with me very much too, works perfect with lithe, quick and quit and iron will :)

    I play dbd for over 3 years and have more than 4000 hours 😅🙈

  • ich_häng_mal_rum
    ich_häng_mal_rum Member Posts: 432
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    @Lusiem9

    I love constructive criticism:)

  • TheMadCat
    TheMadCat Member Posts: 2,203
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  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,776
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    This is one of the reasons I never bother using bloody party streamers or event offerings

  • WishIcouldmain
    WishIcouldmain Member Posts: 4,081
    edited August 2021
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  • Kees_T
    Kees_T Member Posts: 810
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    Of course not, that shouldn't be a thing at first. Read my post again, what I meant was: Survivors are not meant to always escape, in a balanced scenario, 2 will die and 2 will escape, doesn't matter how they die.

    Perks like DS, BT, UNB, and other ones are designed to DELAY your death in a trial, not 100% nullify the outcome. If a Killer wants to force a kill early, Survivor can use these perks to help to delay that. It's the Killer job to kill Survivors, why should he be punished for killing them? Makes no sense...

  • Trickstaaaaa
    Trickstaaaaa Member Posts: 1,256
    edited August 2021
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    What if I do if I get tunneled, it usually means I get camped. If I'm solo I hope that my teammates do gens and get out. If I'm with my friends I tell them just do the gens and get out. But not much you can do if the killer wants to tunnel you. Unless you are a real good looper, or have helpful teammates, which in solo it's much harder.

  • tennmio
    tennmio Member Posts: 354
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    Preventing a hook stage usually kills your team and if you are unlucky and the killer finds hatch first you die too. I'm not sure if that is a good advice. Apart from that: Imagine everyone running those perks and loosing the killer resulting in no one getting hooked what do you think will happen?

  • tennmio
    tennmio Member Posts: 354
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    During the game Ds does nothing neigher does BT. They are good for endgame if the game even gets that far. Usually it is just like u say. The first found is tunneled till they're out of the game. Then the killer eighter proceeds to do the same with the next or starts to play "normal". Sometimes at 5 gens they even camp and slug vs 3 people. I'd really love to see the 4K and escape rates per rank.

    I just hop on different games as I get deeply disgusted by that kind of playstyle.

  • justbecause
    justbecause Member Posts: 1,521
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    Those are legit tactics however I only see bad players using it just like with noed after first chase I can tell if killer has noed and I'm always right they did have it so I also do kinda realize if I'm gonna be tunelled and camped

  • Alionis
    Alionis Member Posts: 970
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    Too bad.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    If you're good at looping and haven't wasted all of the maps resources, yes they will. It may not help with letting you escape, but if you're any good at survivor, you'd be able to run the killer long enough to give your team enough time to finish gens and escape.

    If they're tunneling you during endgame, well, that isn't an issue either since it's the best option for the killer and the game is actually supposed to be more difficult during endgame.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,881
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    Then how about this exchange: survivors get basekit anti-camp, tunnel and slugging mechanics(dont have to be amazing, just a basekit ds that remains active when slugged within 20 seconds after an unhook, but disappears when picked up by a teammate, as example)

    And in return, killers get a basekit 5% regression for kicking gens, a 20 second generator block from the start of the match allowing the killer to move to the generators on the opposite side of the match, and a slightly faster base regression(instead of 1 charge every 3.something seconds, 1 charge every 3.something-0.5 seconds).

    It would address the 2 largest issues on both sides.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
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    BT: 3 seconds of 150% movement speed while the killer is wiping their weapon means 18m of distance

    Standart killers take 30 seconds to catch up to that if you keep running.

    DS: 5 seconds of 100% movement speed while killer is stunned means 20m of distance. Which takes 33 seconds to catch up.

    Even when taking killers abilities into acount it should be enough to find a tile to play if resources aren't depleted.

    DS and BT are there to give you a fighting chance. Not give you the win just by equiping a perk.

    It's a 4v1 game. To really stop tunneling you need teammates to bodyblock for you. If they don't and you die without them even taking damage then you need to redirect your frustration to your teammates.

    Survivors have every tool to seriously hamper tunneling. They just prefer to wave their fist in anger to the killer while staying a safe distance away

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 1,928
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    Yo, those perks are not meant to protect against tunneling, they are there to bodyblock after the unhook and then jump into a locker to bully the killer and make him angry!

    In all seriousness though, if you are doing that - you deserve to be tunneled. There are a lot of occasions when the killer intends to hit the unhooker, but the mEtA tEcH pRo instantly bodyblocks him with BT, using it not as intended. And if the killer accidentally eats BT because of the bodyblock, and especially if you hit him with DS just after that, you may be sure you are getting tunneled to the grave. Toxicity creates toxicity, so be prepared for your "techs" to backfire into tunneling. Most of the times toxic survivors force the killer to tunnel them with provocations, and then go here crying about "unfair strategies". Maybe try not to abuse perks in unintended ways or bring toxic items to make the killer angry next time, and maybe, just maybe, there will be less tunneling in your games?

  • FilthyLegionMain
    FilthyLegionMain Member Posts: 1,148
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    What isn't fair is that the killer has a grudge on you for no reason. Just evening it out. It would encourage people to not go for the just unhooked unless they wish to eat the stun. No one can be happy in this game except the high ranks.

  • bibibib8
    bibibib8 Member Posts: 843
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    Why do you bodyblock the killer when you have BT that in my book is asking to get tunnel. Ds is still an amazimg perk you get a third health state that mean you can expend the chase during that time you have teamate who do gen.

    Btw putting 3 second chance perk basekit is like asking for the killer to stop playing the game or swich to survivor. This is not healthy for a game who have a lot of difficulty to keep their killer more then 2 week after an expension.

    Just imagine if killer could have all ruin/undying/tinkerer or pop/corrupt/bbq basekit the killer would be so strong because basically that what you are saying with UB/DS/BT basekit

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,455
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    They can't nerf tunneling since that would make the game even more frustrating for killers. Well they could do it but then have to add another gen or something to make up for it. It's better to accept that this is how the game is.

    Also get better at looping and you can more or less make sure the other three get out if you have DS and they have BT. The point of DS is to get time to find a strong loop. I mean there is a reason why strong loopers wants the killers to chase them. If you get that good at looping you won't mind being tunneled that much and with Iron Will, Lucky break for example you can also lose the killer.

  • MyersIsPantless
    MyersIsPantless Member Posts: 104
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    bt and ds are anti tunnel perks, why?


    you get saved by someone with BT, the killer hits you but it doesn’t go through and counts as a hook hit. you run away from him and then he hits you again then bam BT is activated. the killer then downs you and then you use DS and stun the killer for 5 seconds.

    the killer would give up trying to get you at that point but if your unlucky then they will still go after you.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623
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  • ShinobuSK
    ShinobuSK Member Posts: 5,279
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  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,968
    edited August 2021
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    There is a counter. Do gens.

    Tunnelling and camping themselves are counters to genrushing, and sneaky unhooks during EGC.

    You have counters to camping and tunnelling, they're just not foolproof, and no counter should ever be foolproof, otherwise it's not just a tactic, it's broken and unfair. If there's nothing a killer can do to prevent an unhook when they want to secure a kill, then killer would be fundamentally broken.

    You are not entitled to have every survivor escape. This is not a PVE game where playing well = you deserve to win, it is a PVP game, where in order for one side to win, the other (usually) loses.

    Post edited by Seraphor on