Tips for going against bubba?
Idk if I'm the only one with this problem, but I seem to have a disproportionately hard time going against Bubba. Most other killers is a case by case basis related to the killer's skill, but unless the Bubba is so bad they bump into walls a lot, I'm hopeless.
I don't remember if I've made a thread like this before (probably have so I guess I'm trying again) but I figured I'd ask to see if there's any top secret tricks to not go down after 5 seconds in chase. All the advice I've heard before (stay tight to corners in case he bumps into them, etc) is stuff I'm already doing but it doesn't really seem to help me much, and I don't know if it's necessarily my looping skills in general, since I don't have a problem with any other killer like this ;-;
That chainsaw is the bane of my existence
halp
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Vaults. Ever since Leatherface got a buff he's harder to time in loops because his add ons change his speed/duration of the saw.
You won't always have a vault available but if Leatherface is breathing down your back and you don't have a vault within a fair distance of you, you're gonna have to pull some cheeky maneuvers or you're going down. He's definitely a killer you need a plan to go against routing wise.
Obviously the first thing that pops into my mind is the killer shack for vaults. If there's a basement there consider going to a different area. Because reasons.
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Sprint Burst is extremely helpful if you're in a dead zone. Bubba is a dead zone destroyer, and he will catch you in a dead zone (unless he really screws up).
Windows and pallets can be used to your advantage. If he has Bamboozle then predict his movement and find another loop, or just force down the pallet. For this reason, Lithe is also a great perk against him, however it is not needed.
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Windows. Bubba will tear you apart in an open space and chews through pallets like granola. Windows are the one thing he cannot counter with his power and is reduced to the typical 115 killer for. If he's using bamboozle, then use the counter to that perk and chain tiles together (like Shack and a nearby L-T wall for example).
Don't greed. He punishes that very well so pre-drop pallets to be safe and only loop the windows. Asides from that it's time to hold w and pray.
Split up. Bubba can instadown multiple survivors at once and with perks like Tinkerer is very good at it. Split up on gens moreso than usual to make sure this won't happen- should be doing this anyway against all killers tbh.
Heal up in safe zones. Don't heal in a dead zone because again he can multi-down and then he's got multiple people down. Since he can insta down if you remain injured it's not that bad anyway, particularly with Dead Hard if you have it.
If he's camping, leave. The hooked survivor is a lost cause and trying to save them will lose you as well. Don't even bother. Do a gen or get a gate just don't try and save unless you're in a SWF, have BT, and/or plan to do something incredibly stupid.
Edit: Also be very mindful of positioning. If you think he's near try to make it to a window and if you think he's going to come to you get out of a dead zone. The w key is your friend- he has no movement power and so map traversal is poor.
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really good survivors have giant balls of steel and will pallet stun Bubbas. That seems like a decent way of buying a couple seconds instead of him just sawing the pallet. I myself am not at that level lol.
Vaults are definitely your friend. Bubbas typically run Bamboozle because of how strong windows can be against him.
I think your safest and easiest bet is to simply be aware of Bubba, either through your game sense or through perks. If Bubba catches you in an unfavorable position, the chase is nearly unwinnable for you. But if you can have a bit of a headstart and not be caught out in a really bad spot, you can buy your team some valuable time.
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Stay by windows. Leave your teammates on the hook.
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So far I'm seeing the stuff I'm very aware of and works fine for me (until there's no more pallets in the map after like 2 minutes) except the windows. I've gotta be doing something wrong with the windows, cause I know they're supposed to be pretty safe against Bubba, but I guess I have awful luck or timing or both cause I always get chainsawed through the window no matter what I do.
I normally lay around rank 4-6 survivor and it's always the red rank Bubbas who can smell my fear
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RUN
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Just vault a window and win, ez. Also, if you vault a pallet he is sawing down at that moment, you don't take damage. Yup, makes total sense, right?
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Keep it tight and clean. Vault is a key word. Stay out of dead zones.
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As someone who's played a fair bit of chase Bubba, it's kind of simply a matter of WHEN he will catch you, not IF.
Don't anticipate using Dead Hard, and even if you are injured, Dead Hard will not save you unless he goes for the M1.
Do NOT get greedy with pallets. Drop it and run. If he spends time to rev beforehand, it's your one lifeline. If he doesn't see the pallet coming, you either force him to rev, buying time, you force him to loop, buying time, or stun him, buying time. Worst case scenario, you buy yourself a couple extra seconds because he pre-revved the pallet.
Vaults are your best friend, but again, don't get greedy. Stay ahead of the game, watch for mindgames, and keep an eye out for Bamboozle.
As I said, it's not a matter of IF he doens you, but WHEN. Make the most of things as you can, and if you get caught in a bad spot... Well, do what you can.
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I have personally been of the opinion to make speedlimiter a basekit on bubba and give people an exposed status if he downs someone. Bubba is powerful enough that the "meme" addon isnt even that meme-ish, as he can quite easily hit survivors twice in a row.
He might need a longer trajectory to compensate for it, but to me, it would make sense.
And for the people who say "but it's a chainsaw, it's supposed to instadown you", let me ask you this: would you be standing when a 150 kilogram weightlifter slices you with a sharp machete? No, that's "supposed" to instadown you too. Would you be standing if an axe is thrown at your head by a strong axe thrower? No, that's "supposed" to instadown you too. I dont see an issue with Bubba dealing only 1 damage state per sweep, per survivor if he gets a longer time he's boosted and exposes people around him if he downs someone. That would essentially make him equally as powerful as he is right now, it would just make him slightly worse at facecamping a hook and downing multiple people.
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Drop pallets early and RUN. Window vaults are the bane of his existence.
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He is not powerful. He is one of the weakest killers in the game. Just two SWF survivors with purple flashlights can make him miserable.
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Make him M1 you. Doesn’t have to be vaults, could be pallets too. Stand at the pallet when he gets close and make him hit you or he’s forced to let you loop it at least one more time.
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That's one garbage bubba, bubba can chase down survivors with his chainsaw faster than a fat kid eats cake
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Everything is a loop for Bubba. Rocks, hedges, trees, everything. He's bad at cornering and you can make him fail a chainsaw just by hugging those clusters of rubble in Temple Of Purgation.
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Jump into lockers if you can't get to vault/pallet and time your escape right is also good thing to do, it has saved me many times.
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He has a special ability called "Bubba's chainsaw" getting hit by it will insta down you.
Don't get hit by it.
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Force M1’s where possible, as you get a speed boost and deny him of an instadown.
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Windows over pallets
Don't get greedy at all. No extra loop, just throw the pallet. If your team is good it will use the time you bought them, if they're bad it wouldnt matter anyway.
initial chase distance. do not greed a gen if you can't get it done anyway or if it doesn't really matter. The higher the distance the more time he has to invest
vaccum stuns. Risky, first off you have to analyize how he's playing pallets. If he hesitates before he breaks pallets with his power, you run a bit further and then press spacebar. you get vaccumed back to the pallet and maybe get a stun. That's a big deal for a bubba.
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what the heck. no. speed limiter is bubba is a meme. Bubba needs an instant-down for his time efficiency in chase. Every second for killer counts and needing 2 hits means that a survivor can tank hit, speed boost to the pallet and than bubba chainsaw has to break it. that extend chases by 30+ seconds. Billy with Lopro chains has speed limiter when he breaks a pallet and billy is so bad now in general.
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Bubba has counters. you need understand how much each chainsaw sweep goes with normal, yellow chili, purple chili and yellow+purple chili with regards to distance. Once you understand this, you can greed pallets to maximize bubba token cooldown. It will allow you to conserve pallets and it maximizes your chances of making bubba make a mistake at bumping into objects for pallet loops.
Windows are hard counter to bubba as his chainsaw cannot go through them, however 99% of bubba who are good will use bamboozle. Bamboozle is countered by chaining two window tilesets. You need to make predictions for when Bubba will vault windows so that you can understand when to move next tile. Really good bubba can estimate distances between loops and will sometimes chainsaw 10-14 meters away so that when they're on 3rd token, they instant down you from a far. The way to counter this is that Bubba moves faster when you are walking in straight line, but bubba lose distance if he has to curve jagged objects like curved rocks as survivor can hug curved objects better than bubba can. This has to do with bubba chainsaw hitbox being huge and survivor model hitbox being small. Watch out for bubba switching directions when loop tightly around an small object. You can make Bubba waste all of 3 of his tokens which gives lengthy cooldown if he does not hit you to move to next loops.
Lastly, if your in deadzone, it is possible to jump into a locker and jump out safely if Bubba tantrums into a locker. there are 3 timings to escaping a locker. charge 1, 2 and 3. It is better if you can jump into lockers from further away as you can eliminate charge 1 and only work on learning Charging 2 and Charge 3. Jane's Head-on perk can skip exact timing to jumping out.
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@Predated Your post is classic "Nerf killer post" so I can escape survivor post. With speed limiter, You wouldn't need to learn anything against playing Bubba and because 75% of playerbase survivor playerbase puts zero effort into learning to play against Bubba, He ends up having 75% kill rate. Its not that killers are unfair/too strong, its that survivor put no effort in learning to play against them and ask for silly "base-kit Speed-limiter leatherface change plz".
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Well this ... might not help you? Because I'm partly recommending it with something else? and . . . it might upset them to the point they tunnel you? But . . .
When Bubba does that long chainsaw I'll pop in the locker during chase and let him finish . . . if you have head-on you can then stun him.
I assume you're already pallet stunning him as best as you can.
I also think STEALTHING is better than CHASE if you can help it with Bubba. Keep a REALLY keen eye out for him and maybe duck around at a medium distance from the area your gen is in if he doesn't see you. Blastmine is a great perk for Bubbas because once they kick it you can gain distance or stay hidden nearby and wait for them to get a good distance away before you return to your gen.
Using Diversion to toss at a locker far from you is pretty fun too because you waste their time by making them look around. Odds are they won't stop at looking in just one locker and will rotate the loop a bit costing them anywhere from 5-15 seconds. Maybe a hair more.
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Never loop a Bubba for too long unless you want to risk getting Insidious camped
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Spam windows and hope he doesn't have Bamboozle . Try to force a m1 as much as possible and don't run into deadzones.
There really is not much "counterplay".
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Bubba one of the weakest? Hah, sure. That's why rank 1 Bubba mains have a 80%+ kill rate. Bubba is easily high A tier.
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Except that a lot of people in higher ranks agree that speed limiter bubba isnt really that much of a meme. He can hit you twice before you can reach the next loop because of his speed boost. You can actually use his chainsaw to gain distance. People tend to forget that.
"Lastly, if your in deadzone, it is possible to jump into a locker and jump out safely if Bubba tantrums into a locker."
Deadzones dont have lockers, and you cant jump out safely if Bubba tantrums as he continuously sweeps and deals damage faster than the locker exit animation lasts. You can only jump out after his final sweep has finished and that jump has to be nearly frame perfect to not be a grab(desync is a thing).
And no, it's not classic nerf killers. They overbuffed Bubba slightly.
As for "learn to play against bubba", 95% of the killers that are being picked are not bubba, meaning you simply will not have enough time to learn to play against a bubba specifically, as there is quite a significant chance you wont encounter a bubba for literal weeks.
Dont act as if Bubba is a very common killer to face.
And again, base-kit speed limiter on bubba makes sense, he sweeps multiple times anyway. You could easily compensate by increasing his movementspeed OR add another charge OR increase the speed of regaining charges to compensate.
I've been playing this game for a very long time, buffing old bubba by giving him speedlimiter as basekit while giving current values has been a very common request, because being able to hit multiple survivors twice was so much better than barely being able to hit 1 survivor once unless you facecamped.
Seriously, why does bubba NEED an instadown for efficiency in chase? We have tons of killers that dont have an ability to get rid of a pallet in 1 second that are doing just fine. Bubba is better at what Pig can do. So as a counter argument of "With speed limiter, You wouldn't need to learn anything against playing Bubba" My argument would become: With speedlimiter, you would need to be able to mindgame a survivor into a certain position to reach them before they initiate a vault(as you can hit a survivor twice within 1 window vault animation and you'd be hitting a survivor on the pallet while also breaking the pallet rather than downing them and breaking the pallet).
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People say to not be greedy but i would contradict it, you need to be a BIT greedy against him since he eats pallets very easy specially after you get used to the duration of chainsaw. And allways remember that jungle gyms and any windows in general will be your friend. Be very careful not to be in any deadzone close to him, i would run away as fast as I heard his terror radious if I was in a deadzone. Oh and lockers, they can save you if you are in a bad spot and eventually you will learn the timing to when to get out (after a lot of failures).
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This i was playing as him for a daily(i am a killer main i just don't play bubba) and the survivors would loop objects tight and I couldn't really do anything about it because I have to make a wider turn to i don't stun myself. But m1 Bubba with BW got me a 3k lol
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as was explained, dont greed and use windows, if he was bamboozle he can only shut down one at a time... he eats pallets like a mother trucker so, be carefull with taht, and dont greed, dont try to loop him, if he is good he will tear you apart, especailyl with chilli addons.. he will go full circle in the loop.
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I prefer running Windows of opportunity. Just so I know where the windows and vaults are when I'm being chased.
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"And again, base-kit speed limiter on bubba makes sense, he sweeps multiple times anyway. You could easily compensate by increasing his movementspeed OR add another charge OR increase the speed of regaining charges to compensate."
Nothing compensates losing instant down. Instant down is time efficiency. I play a lot of bubba, he's like my 3rd most played killer. I also play survivor at rank 1. Bubba would be a joke to face without instant down.
"95% of the killers that are being picked are not bubba, meaning you simply will not have enough time to learn to play against a bubba specifically, as there is quite a significant chance you wont encounter a bubba for literal weeks.
Dont act as if Bubba is a very common killer to face."
Not a good excuse. learn to play survivor.
"I've been playing this game for a very long time, buffing old bubba by giving him speedlimiter as basekit while giving current values has been a very common request"
common requests by rank 20 survivors. Its funny because sometimes you get strange matchmaking with like green rank survivors, sometimes you get messages like bubba instant down is unfair messages. Its very comical to think that red rank bubba should be losing to green rank survivors.
He is not overbuffed, it is learn to play issue. He is proper challenge to beat if the other player is good at using his ability.
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vaults are his bane along with predropping pallets. it sucks having to predrop but thats how you avoid getting hit.
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How many lobbies do you dodge?
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"Nothing compensates losing instant down."
Except that it DOES compensate as it would remove the ability for Bubba to guarantee a free kill in the most boring and toxic way possible, multiple kills if you try to save your teammate. Let alone that increased speed and more sweeps would allow Bubba to hit people where he normally wouldnt be able to and overall have shorter chases. Overall shorter chases=better time efficiency.
"Not a good excuse. learn to play survivor."
'I barely encounter high tier SWF's, so I lose consistently to them, I cant possibly learn to counter their strategies if I only play against them for 4 minutes once a month as the strategies used by other survivors are very different, leaving to little to no time to adapt' "Just git gud".
Not how it works. You NEED practice against a killer to counter that specific killer. Learning to play survivor has nothing to do with a hag being able to teleport to you. Learning to play survivor has nothing to do with a Nurse being able to phase through walls. NOTHING you learn as a survivor against the average killer will teach you how to play against a Bubba. So yes, it is an excuse.
"common requests by rank 20 survivors." Nope, Bubba mains, rank 1 survivors, rank 1 killers all requested to highly amplify his pre-rework ability at the cost of losing the instadown. It would remove the incentive to facecamp on hook, while also allowing Bubba to far more easily hit a survivor twice. You can consistently run Speedlimiter on Bubba and have a 70% killrate.
"Its funny because sometimes you get strange matchmaking with like green rank survivors, sometimes you get messages like bubba instant down is unfair messages. Its very comical to think that red rank bubba should be losing to green rank survivors."
Just that it's comical that a green rank Bubba should be getting 1 kill while facing red rank survivors. Yet, that happens quite easily.
"He is not overbuffed, it is learn to play issue. He is proper challenge to beat if the other player is good at using his ability."
Maps offer far too little counterplay against a Bubba. You can charge a chainsaw and instadown a survivor faster at pretty much any loop, than any other killer is capable of doing 1 health state. The only exceptions being Nurse and Spirit around pallets.
On 99% of the vast majority of maps, there is no counterplay against a Bubba's instadown as he can catch up with you either before you finish the vaulting animation, use his second charge to catch up and if that fails, access his third charge to basically guarantee the down. I've never even needed to use a 3rd charge on Bubba to get an instadown on the vast majority of loops. That is why I call him overbuffed. He either has 1 charge too many or too much speed to be carrying an instadown. Lowering those 2 makes him significantly weaker on T&L walls and against pallets, so that's not neccesarily the problem. The problem lies at his instadown at this point. Which is why I definitely prefer him having speedlimiter as a basekit, if it means increasing his movement speed. Heck, I'd even would argue that Bubba could have a build in Lo-Pro chains(the PTB one, where it's basically speedlimiter with the ability to run through pallets), which would make sense.
Hits in this game are inevitable, having an inevitable hit being an instadown that's basekit without any requirements is a bit ridiculous.
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As survivor? Maybe about one every 8 hours, mainly if 3 of them are obviously a crossplay SWF. Otherwise none.
Why would dodging lobbies even matter here? Or if you were talking about me being a Bubba main? I got that statistic from rank 1 Bubba mains. As a killer, I only really dodge lobbies during the loading screen if I see people switch to a key and 3 toolboxes last second while they use a map offering for Ormond, Haddonfield or RPD and I am not in the mood/dont have the build to play super sweaty. It's quite easy to just use ctrl+alt+del and close DBD forcefully if that happens, dont get a penalty either, because the match never started in the first place.
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Windows and vaults are your friend. Try to use them as much as possible and only use pallets when necessary to save resources. When you are not chased slam gens cause he has no map pressure.
Don't greed pallets. Even people who are great against leatherface cant exactly guess how far he will make it without knowing his add-ons. You can also force an M1 to gain a speed boost which you should always use to make it to another loop.
He is very similar to other killers with strong chase powers in that they will eventually get you. His power allows him to eat through resources and to instant down preventing the speed boost survivors get after a hit. Nullify these two aspects as much as possible, while also abusing weakness (lack of map pressure) for easier wins.
Finally, if someone is being face camped or even closely proxy camped just do gens and get out. Do not waste time trying to save. Also, if you are the one being camped do not #########. You are just rewarding the killer for their camping.
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You can stop pretending that your speed limiter proposal is a "common request". It's not. Bubba is an extremely loopable killer. A simple 4-wall jungle gym is enough to keep you safe from a chainsaw if you hug corners and are decent at breaking LOS. This is something I learned by playing against Bubba, which you claim is too rare to be done. Current day Bubba is the gold-standard for a strong killer that doesn't take away survivor agency.
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haha this post is funny. what your asking to change about him is how bubba used to before he got reworked. He actually used to have only 1 charge and he used to move slower in his chainsaw. In fact his chainsaw was so slow and had so little duration that you needed to use a perk to increase his movement speed to be effective.
He was one of the worst killers in the game. Otz shows a good old glimpse of what old bubba used to play like. It was really bad.
"On 99% of the vast majority of maps, there is no counterplay against a Bubba's instadown as he can catch up with you either before you finish the vaulting animation, use his second charge to catch up and if that fails, access his third charge to basically guarantee the down. I've never even needed to use a 3rd charge on Bubba to get an instadown on the vast majority of loops"
The vast majority of survivor players are pretty bad but against good players, the charges system is very integral for bubba to down better players and integral to part to counter-playing his chainsaw. I have went on extremely long chases vs bubba. his chainsaw has counter-play. you just need to get better at using tile sets against him. he can be looped.
Much of the playerbase needs to stop asking for negative killer changes and instead should get better at playing vs bubba so they can defeat him. I do agree that facecamping aspect of bubba is not very good but at the same time, I do not think that facecamping with any killer is particularly healthy towards gameplay. I am pretty sure that all killers that have reliable instant down e.g infinity ev3 myers, billy etc. excel at camping. Its problem with hook system and not anything to do with killers themselves. Pyramid head cage system offers a possible solution to that problem.
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Sharp corners windows and dont greed pallets too much. But dont pre drop them either
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Vaults are good, his power is pretty weak at them. He is a pallet muncher. Additionally bring Kindred to see if he is facecamping. In general just always use Kindred if you are solo TBH. It is by far the best solo queue perk.
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- Play more immersive 2. Get in a locker when someone goes down (or get behind and unfinished gen) 3. If in a chase haul balls away from the basement. That is all I got.
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It was though, not currently, read my comments, the proposal WAS for the bubba rework, not currently, P R E - R E W O R K Bubba.
And no, Bubba isnt the gold standard. No killer that is capable of guaranteeing kills on hook by camping with his basekit is even close to being called a gold standard killer. Doctor, Demo, Oni and Blight(excluding some of his addons) are much better deserving of the name gold standard killers. Killers where small mistakes end up in an earlier hit, not an instadown.
Also "A simple 4-wall jungle gym is enough to keep you safe from a chainsaw if you hug corners and are decent at breaking LOS." is simply asenine, as this is supposed to be the absolute strongest loop a survivor can use, with only 2 of these spawning on each map. Yeah, you'd be fine IF Bubba never m1's, IF you're able to even reach it before Bubba closes the gap AND IF your teammates are actually aware you're being chased.
I wouldnt mind Bubba's balancing, if the map spawns 3-4(depending on mapsize and genspread) jungle gyms while facing him, which is not the case. Bubba is not fine because maps are not. IF we keep the current maps, Bubba shouldnt be able to instadown from at least his first charge(heck, im even pretty certain Bubba shouldnt be able to rev within 8 or 16 meters of a hooked survivor at this point).
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You think the 4 parallel walls is the absolute strongest loop a survivor can use?
You're going by camping ability as your killer quality metric?
I don't even know how to respond to someone with such delusional takes
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Yes, I know, I've been playing this game long before you have. And no, I am not asking anything of the like. I am asking for 1 of those things. I am asking him to be slightly slower OR have 1 less charge(note, I didnt say give him 1 charge, I said remove 1 charge, he has 3 charges).
I have played Old Bubba, the fact that he could instadown people off hook was quite a problem as he could still catch up with a survivor that had BT triggered while being unhooked. Let alone that Bubba was guaranteed to have at least 2 stacks of PWYF too. I know why Old Bubba was weak, dont try to lecture me here. As for one of the worst? He always remained above Myers, Clown, Demo and Trapper. Arguably Wraith and Ghostface too. Being the 8th worst killer in the game, with a roster of only 19 killers makes him not one of the worst. He was bad, yeah, but one of the worst? Nah. His power was the absolute worst when it came to using it to damage survivors, but considering all killers were essentially m1 killers against high tier survivors anyway? Bubba was mid-tier. That is how much the game has evolved since 2019 by simply reworking the maps. Current Myers performs better than old Bubba. Even if he used to perform worse.
"The vast majority of survivor players are pretty bad but against good players"
False, the vast majority of survivor players SEEM bad due to:
- lack of communications
- lack of usable tiles(the maps before their reworks had too many, haddonfield seems much worse because all maps have gotten better overall)
- lack of communications
This is why I said 99% of the area's on maps do not offer proper counterplay against Bubba. Rather than putting it on the players.
"you just need to get better at using tile sets against him."
There is only 2 potential tiles you can use against a very good Bubba: 1. Killer shack. 2. Jungle Gyms. At best, there are 3 tiles like this on a single map. 4 if you count non-reworked maps. You cannot expect survivors to reach those tiles because 1: bubba outspeeds a survivor who uses sprintburst because he has 3 charges. 2. That's it, I literally do not need to say anything else. There is no way you can expect a survivor to go to a killer shack or jungle gym to loop him properly. It's why so many survivors rather use W. But if the Bubba realizes they are W gaming, he will start cutting them off instead, and then downing them there. There are some main buildings or indoor maps that are quite effective against a good Bubba, but that's only 25% of maps. Meaning there is a 75% chance you wont be getting a map you can properly use against a Bubba, unless you're a full SWF with good comms. Anything less, and Bubba is an issue right now.
"I am pretty sure that all killers that have reliable instant down e.g infinity ev3 myers, billy etc. excel at camping."
No, they actually dont excel at camping. You can get around a Billy and Myers by using an Endurance state, Bubba bypasses any endurance state. If you try to unhook a survivor against a Billy or T3 Myers, you're quite likely to either swap hookstates(and thus buying more time) or even be able to unhook+dead hard, causing them to hit the survivor you saved with BT and then both survivors leaving the hook. Against a Bubba? No chance.
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you just named what would possibly be perhaps 2 worst design tiles for killer where best outcome of these tiles for killer is an early pallet drop and at worst case, an entire game lost. Having series of these loops connected to each and the killer going for this chase is an instant loss vs efficient gen team. If by counter-playing bubba, its suppose to be that killer never hits get an opportunity to get hits, than these tiles right on mark. Its like perfect excuse to just play nurse at this point.
I think at most filler pallets, bubba is unlikely to be able to get hits on them with his chainsaw and most of the time, he has to break pallets using his chainsaw. Its just that, unlike other killers where their pallet break is so slow, bubba is probably only killer where you can physically run out of pallets as survivor. with other killers, there is practically no repercussions to just dropping a bunch of strong pallets when your team is doing objective. in any case, Pallet still eat bubba's time and if you can understand his charge system, you can use it against him to pressure him to go through pallets to get stuns during his chainsaw or make him afraid of going through pallets where he falls short on chainsaw duration to down you.
T-L wall is good tile vs bubba. If he wants to get instant downs, he has to make reads with his chainsaw and single bad read wastes all of 3 his tokens. For that reason, M1 at T-L loops for bubba is common. Forcing bubba to M1 you on loops cuts down his time efficiency and even though it doesn't auto win you the game like some of those other loops, it gives you the opportunity to prologue chase.
chase-wise, Bubba is definitely good standard for killer. he stomp bad players and has potential to beat good players as he can capitalize on looping mistakes rapidly. It is exactly what killer should be put at. they should have opportunity to beat better players and worse players shouldn't have much of a chance to win until they improve at the game.
"No, they actually dont excel at camping."
Its funny you to mention that because one of my games as survivor during MMR was... that I got chased for 4 generators and than got facecamped by Myers that had EV3 at 99%. My team finished all 5 generators. do you wanna know what happened? He downed entire team and I never got unhooked. so I cannot say I agree with your statement. Instant down are very powerful in deadzones and facecamping with them is pretty omnipotent strategy. To be fair, that team was pretty stupid to even think they were going save me, but I understand where this gameplay choice comes from. it comes from the not very well designed emblem system on survivor side where them escaping would yield them depiping even though escaping was so obviously the best play in that situation.
As you say, borrow time does not solve facecamping, even in the case of billy, he will still be able to hook trade down until at least one survivor dies. As i said, Its not problem with killer themselves, It is problem with hook system. If they used pyramid head's cage system where the hooks teleport if a killer facecamp, than this would be a lot less of a problem.
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jungle gym isnt 4 parallel walls. Jungle gym is by definition 2 L-walls and 1 T-wall with 1 window and a pallet, with the 4th wall basically splitting 1 of the L walls in 2 if the window isnt there.
4 Parallel walls depends quite heavily on the map. On some maps, it's strong due to solid walls, on other maps, it's quite weak due to breaking up most walls.
And yeah, not a single killer in the game should be able to get a freebie by standing still. It's why people hate spirit so much too.
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"you just named what would possibly be perhaps 2 worst design tiles for killer where best outcome of these tiles for killer is an early pallet drop and at worst case, an entire game lost."
If you lose the game because of a single jungle gym, you deserved the loss.
"Having series of these loops connected to each and the killer going for this chase is an instant loss vs efficient gen team."
Except that vs a Bubba, not really. Bubba creates a scenario where survivors HAVE to drop the pallet, or go down. Let alone that Bubba gets rid of that pallet faster than most killers too. Efficient gen teams are rare. It's the same reason why Nurse's addons havent been addressed. Because a genuinely good nurse, is rare. Balancing around the 0.1% without screwing over 99.9% of the community is very difficult. Which is why I am stating they slightly overbuffed Bubba.
"If by counter-playing bubba, its suppose to be that killer never hits get an opportunity to get hits, than these tiles right on mark."
Oppertunity to get hits are plenty, oppertunity to get insta-downs should be less frequent. Right now, in 90% of the cases, if you can m1 as bubba, you can m2 aswell. No addons taken in consideration. That's a problem considering 99.999% of this game is about the public matches.
"I think at most filler pallets, bubba is unlikely to be able to get hits on them with his chainsaw and most of the time, he has to break pallets using his chainsaw."
A good Bubba can quite easily down a survivor with 2 charges around filler pallets, then hook them and have all his charges back. The only time a Bubba has a hard time with filler pallets, is if survivors are so danm optimal at pathing AND have dedicated servers in their favor. If a Bubba cannot down a survivor on filler pallets where a Pig can injure someone with a dash, the Bubba is the one making a mistake.
"My team finished all 5 generators. do you wanna know what happened? He downed entire team and I never got unhooked. so I cannot say I agree with your statement. Instant down are very powerful in deadzones and facecamping with them is pretty omnipotent strategy. To be fair, that team was pretty stupid to even think they were going save me, but I understand where this gameplay choice comes from."
You kinda answered your own question later on. Yeah, if it's in the basement, it's extremely hard to get a safe unhook. But that is a combination of the basement AND the instadown. If it's any generic hook though? It's quite easy to get an unhook off with a hooktrade. If multiple survivors get downed, it's on them. With a Bubba? Doesnt matter what you do, doesnt matter where it is, you're not gonna be able to save your teammate without giving the killer more kills.
And no, the hook system is fine. Hook trading is fine. Turning all hooks(including the basement hook) into a cage system would quite heavily ######### over the killer's pressure. A killer needs to be able to camp and survivors need to be able to hook trade(especially if a survivor needs to die if the killer wants to stand a chance during the EGC). I'd personally make killers unable to use their M2 while within 16 meters of a hooked survivor. Meaning a Spirit would be forced out of her phase while within the range. Bubba and Billy wont be able to rev. Myers wont be able to stalk(but if he DOES have t3 prior to hooking the survivor, yknow, he earned it).
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efficient teams being rare is an excuse. they're rare because of poor matchmaking. during MMR, they were not rare and those loops waste m1 killers time regardless of how well killer plays it.
"Oppertunity to get hits are plenty, opportunity to get insta-downs should be less frequent. Right now, in 90% of the cases, if you can m1 as bubba, you can m2 aswell. No addons taken in consideration."
This is untrue vs good survivors. bad survivors(low MMR) put themselves in positions for bubba to capitalize off his instant down throughout the game.
"Bubba creates a scenario where survivors HAVE to drop the pallet, or go down."
"A good Bubba can quite easily down a survivor with 2 charges around filler pallets, then hook them and have all his charges back. The only time a Bubba has a hard time with filler pallets, is if survivors are so danm optimal at pathing AND have dedicated servers in their favor."
Also untrue. Better players having optimal pathing and understand duration of his chainsaw. Leatherface chainsaw will clip pallets if he comes in contact with them instead of hitting the survivor. it used to be that if survivor slide during a pallet break, they go down, though that feature seems to no longer be the case. you need to have very bad reactions to go down to leatherface on dropped filler pallets.
Bubba does not create scenerios where survivor have to drop the pallet or go down, survivors set themselves up for that to occur. Understand his charge system and how much distance he can cover within 3 charges is integral to making the most out of these pallets.
"You kinda answered your own question later on. Yeah, if it's in the basement, it's extremely hard to get a safe unhook. But that is a combination of the basement AND the instadown. If it's any generic hook though? It's quite easy to get an unhook off with a hooktrade. If multiple survivors get downed, it's on them. With a Bubba? Doesnt matter what you do, doesnt matter where it is, you're not gonna be able to save your teammate without giving the killer more kills."
Its just survivors not understanding that instant down with deadzones at hooks is bad combination. This problem also occurs with low cooldown attacks such as Trickster's Showstopper and Huntress hatchets. It wasn't basement hook. Basement is notorious worse for this problem.
"A killer needs to be able to camp and survivors need to be able to hook trade(especially if a survivor needs to die if the killer wants to stand a chance during the EGC)"
In that case, your saying that its fine for killers like bubba to facecamp hooks despite one of your previous posts complains about it.
"the hook system is fine. Hook trading is fine."
I think this system is actually big problem because it means that survivor can literally "throw" the objective(hooks) at you during the match for free and there very little that killer can do to capitalize off hook pressure during the match. BT largely allows you to hook trade almost anything against majority of killers without any real thought process behind the save. you can complete all 5 generator by just hooking trading with BT by abusing hook timers, so it makes hook timers a survivor favored mechanic rather than killer favored mechanic.
The other problem is that performing hook action also eats great deal of the killers time when you need to do this 4-12 times per match. At the end of the game, it just creates very unfun and uninteractive facecamping gameplay for survivor and adds very little to killer gameplay experience other than savoring their loss.
With PH hook system, it saves killer hook time(Killer can use this time to pressure gens and start chases quicker) and eliminates uninteractive facecamping gameplay at the end of match as well many killers that exploit hook system to their advantage which in my opinion messes with kill statistics more than anything. The only real downfall of it is that it removes possibility of flashlight saves & hook sabotage, though this topic is another rabbit hole.
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Imagine being so confident in your presentation while being absolutely wrong
Also, no, that's not why people hate Spirit. People hate Spirit because they have to GUESS what she's doing when she stands still. Please stop making things up as you go along.
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