I'm So Sick Of Hearing "NOED Is Fine"
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I don't understand.
People that I hook during the endgame can bounce out the door with Borrowed Time and DS because I didn't camp them out of the game and they failed/got hooked at the end game? They deserve the three health states (injured + BT + DS)? They earned it on death hook by just existing and failing/playing bad?
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What do you mean. If you use NOED properly you can easily secure 1 or 2 kills. Nobody can save them unless they manage to find the Totem with enough time to perform an unhook and even then it's probably a trade.
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Do bones
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Sorry - I mean you're saying that I do not deserve the perk because I played bad.
If someone that is unhooked from stage two, after I played 'fair' all game, gets to be protected by BT and DS after immediately coming out of a losing state (hook) and can easily escape through no meaningful interaction of their own, is that ok in your eyes?
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1. Don't play "fair". Tunneling and camping are part of the game, it's not balanced around 12-hooking and there's plenty of counterplay to both of them.
2. Wait out BT, and slug out the DS. Neither of those perks singlehandedly win games either, they still have to do reasonably well in chases and on gens. NOED singlehandedly can get you 2 kills even if you do nothing all game.
3. Plenty of other perks in this game like Flashbang, Mettle, Pop, Devour, etc. are all "earned" perks.
4. None of this is much of an issue if you get 6 Hook Stages, which really isn't that difficult. That change makes it far healthier and makes the game far more enjoyable, especially at lower ranks
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Even assuming you're right and NOED isn't fine, dont' you think "Catch up mechanics" aren't an essential part of game design?
If NOED covers for bad play, can't you say the same for things like Borrowed Time or Dead Hard? Why are second chance perks like those two or even DS okay and NOED isn't?
Hypocritical Bullshit
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1). Thank you for the tip. I will tunnel and camp more.
2). How do I wait it out at the gate? The 10s travel distance from BT if I try to wait it out often puts them close to the gate, as that's where most of the action is happening endgame. They can just crawl out - It's an unwinnable scenario if they're within a certain distance of the gate regardless of whether I outplayed them or not.
3). I'm more of a Bond/Whispers/Discordance/Kindred/DS/BT person myself - plenty of perks in this game have unique/different activation conditions.
4). I do not think the hook stage idea is good - What stops someone from just camping 2 people out of the game and getting the 3rd with NOED....Seems like a familiar scenario.
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People should run what they want.
Full disclosure - None of these perks actually have any meaningful impact on my gameplay, but the hypocrisy is certainly unreal.
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1. No problem, that's just the way the game is. Do whatever puts the most pressure on them
2. Hook away from the gate, and bodyblock. But typically with NOED, that unhook isn't even happening. Even without it, target the rescuer, they don't have any protection.
3. I was just listing similar examples
4. It's not a catch-all, but it helps a lot with the problem. It'd be similar to devour in strength at that point, and it only activates if the game is reasonably close, so you'd probably be getting someone on their 2nd hook anyway.
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This is probably outlandish, but if a rework was deemed 100% necessary/it had to be changed, I'd do the following based on the Scourge system:
1) 4 hooks are 'marked.' - As evenly distributed across the map as possible.
2) 'Marked' hooks are only visible to the killer and appear normal to the survivors (they are marked with a different aura for the killer on survivor pick-up).
3) NOED gains a token each time one of these hooks are used.
4) NOED will activate as normal if all 4 special hooks are used - Still a Hex.
5) If not, NOED will still activate (still a Hex) but will only last for the number of M1 attacks equal to the number of hooks used - It will deactivate after this.
This would make it harder for NOED to fully activate if the killer is camping people out while also providing a medium ground for people still struggling in the endgame but did not perform well (NOED can still gain tokens during the end for any unused Scourge hooks if you hook someone on one, but it will not reach its 'unlimited' mode - NOED will NOT reactivate once it deactivates for the first time if a survivor is hooked on a 'marked' hook).
Probably will never happen, but seems pretty fun and unique.
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I need to head off for a while, but I I just wanted you to know that I sincerely had fun in our back and forth.
I hope you continue to have fun playing the game - Have a good night, friendo :)
Felt it was worth saying as there's not really a lot of positivity here, at times.
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i like that actually, but devs ain't making that effort
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OH boo-hoo. Let me press F on the world tiniest keyboard.
Noed... Is.... Fine....
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People seem to have this weird mindset when it comes to EGC. For a lot end game collapse seems to be a victory march of sorts where the game is over and you have to let everyone out instead of it just being another phase of the match. I think NOED can easily be reworked into something that punishes genrushing while still having counterplay at all phases of the game and this is my proposed idea.
NOED now works off how many totems there are left in the match. The activation conditions are still the same however, whenever you hit a survivor with NOED active it destroys a totem, once all the totems in the match are destroyed NOED deactivates. So if there's 5 totems in the end game then you get 5 free hits, if there's only 1 totem left in the match then you get one free hit. This keeps the original function of NOED intact while giving a little more leeway for survivors since destroying totems throughout the match can reduce the effectiveness of the perk no matter what phase of the match you're at and encourages spending time to totem hunt a little more.
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I like this idea
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Ah yes killers getting free kills from a perk is not ok but survivors getting free escapes from perks is fine. Also noed can be taken away, unbreakable and ds cannot.
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Can we give every survivor perk the MOM treatment so they are also actually earned instead of just being available to use?
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I dunno NOED used to upset me when I was new, but these days I find it's a gamble that tends to not really pay off for the killer if everyone just bounces once you see it show it up
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Survivors don’t “throughly outplay” a killer if they get downed by NoEd. If the killer was bad and survivors were thoroughly outplaying them, they should have had no problems cleansing totems. Even if they didn’t cleanse totems during the match, they can always find the lit and crackling totem after the fifth gen pops.
And no, your suggestion wouldn’t work since most gens can be completed by competent survivors by the time the killer gets their third hook. Note, I said competent, not sweaty swf. Just average players who know the game.
Completing 5 gens doesn’t entitle you to an easy escape. The game isn’t over until you’re out the door.
Finally, I’d argue that killers earn NoEd by playing most of the match with 3 perks. If they were bad, and still get use out of it, it’s on the survivors. If they were so impressive that you couldn’t do bones, then they earned its activation.
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Noed is fine. It used to be the whole end game, then they nerfed it to 2 minutes and then nerfed it towards a totem. And if all totems are gone, you get nothing and wasted a perk slot for nothing.
Noed is fine the way it is. There are like 2 perks and an item to find totems really easy. Most totems also spawn in generic positions as well.
Totems also don't take very long to cleanse too, if 4 survivors do 1 each and you do 2, it's only 30 seconds anyway.
It's not the killers fault for running Noed and getting some use out of it. It's the survivors fault for giving the killer noed. If all survivors took 15 seconds to cleanse a totem when they see one, it's not much time wasted. But I guess survivors want to genrush and get an easy escape.
When I play, I play both sides, so I'm not a killer main.
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I don't agree with that. The killer plays with 3 perks the whole round. Maybe 2 if the killer uses ruin and that gets cleansed within 1 minute.
If you give the killer noed, that's totally on you and your team. You should have done the side objective, which are the totems.
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I personally don't get these many noed posts. I don't see it as a problem as I next to never see noed in play. Though I don't play in lower ranks so I'm sure it's more common there but in red ranks? I hardly ever see it. I'd say more often I don't see it go off as all the totems are broken.
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is not that hard to do cleanse totems you do have a few perks
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I'm so sick of survivors complaining about NOED. I'm sick of killer perks being at the full mercy of survivors in the form of hexes.
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Just like killers are forced to use gen regression?
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NOED is a crutch perk, and if you can't get 6 Hook Stages by Endgame, then yeah, you were thoroughly outplayed. It's a simple change and it stops killers from playing terrible all game then getting 2 kills through no good play of their own
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And DH is not a crutch perk?
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NOED is fine within its intended use. But just like some perk on both sides (the other most infamous is DS) player abused them to get rewarded out of a mistake or lazy play.
So yes, NOED is fine, but need some condition to activate just like they did with Mettle of man or DS. Just as a rough idea, something like 15/20s per new hook and the current NOED after 6 progression hook (no forced hook stages) that way, a facecamping killer will not get a lot of time to secure kills but a decent player could make use of it if he performed well during the game.
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How is this thread still getting publicity?
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can everyone in this thread try to stay on topic?? Seeing a lot of survivors meta perks being mentioned, as I see in pretty much every other NOED thread.
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That is your opinion, not fact. If you and your teammates can’t distract and loop the killer long enough to do gens and totems, using the many crutch perks, strong tiles and 15-20 pallets that the game provides, then you simply got outplayed.
No change is needed except for the lazy attitude most players have in this game.
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I'm tired of hearing nerf NOED. Consider it used to be infinite without a way to disable it.
Also your hypothetical sounds too much like a streamers experiment.
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actually it's probably more just 2 man and 3 man swfs instead of a full 4 squad. I think 2 man and 3 man are more common then a lobby full of solos
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Noed already has a condition to activate, survivors not doing totems.
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The only thing bothering me is the facecamper using it to gain aditionnal kill, that's why i wrote this idea.
But other than this specific scenario, i agree with you, Noed doesn't need any change.
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I personally don't run the perk on Killer and I always play with Detective's Hunch because Ruin/Undying is so common.
So I don't really have a horse in this race, since I don't really care. NOED effectively doesn't exist for me.
But reading this thread sure was fun.
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When killers face camp survivors at EGC, they’re always gonna die especially if the totem is right there.
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Ah yes, how dare the survivors not do a 6th gen that the devs didn't include?
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It is only one lit totem after the gens are done.
The Devs did include dull totems. They obviously want people to cleanse them, otherwise they wouldn't have kept NoEd as is for as long as they have, nor would they have buffed small game and introduced a new tracking perk as well as new hex perks.
You're not obligated to do dulls, but you're not obligated to have an easy escape after holding M1 for most of the match.
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They're there for points and Hex Totems. And if you think NOED is getting cleansed before the damage is done, then you don't play this game enough.
You absolutely do deserve a win if you beat a killer so bad they didn't even get 6 Hook States. NOED is ruining games, especially at lower ranks
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No, they're there as a way to slow down the game. Against competent survivors, NoEd would only give the killer one down/kill. You don't play this game enough if you think otherwise.
You absolutely don't deserve a win just for holding M1 for most of the match. Average survivors should have 2.5 gens done before the killer gets their first down. You only deserve to beat the killer when you exit the match, nothing more and nothing less. Completing gens is only half the battle. You deserve to die to NoEd if you and your team can't distract the killer long enough to cleanse bones.
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You have to loop to be able to hold m1 that much lol. I'm done here
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You're done here because you have no argument, just entitlement.
If you win after doing five gens, the game would immediately end. It doesn't.
And no, you don't have to be able to loop. I can run in a straight line and pre-drop pallets and waste enough time that two gens can pop. I can barely look behind myself and loop a killer. Heck, If I just start running the moment I see the killer coming for me in the distance, they either lose a gen chasing me or have to go find someone else, still wasting time.
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Noed does need some changes. Killers can just go AFK and NOED will activate if survivors didnt find all totems. It's a bit ridiculous. I think it'll eventually get some much needed changes. Until then... we'll just have to deal with it.
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You’re technically right but this is a paper thin argument considering Iridescent Head went unchanged for 4 years.
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This is also a paper thin argument because survivors have absolutely no way of for sure being able to tell how many totems are done without a specific perk.
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You don't need to know how many totems are done. You can wait for it to activate and then find it. It is something that you just have to keep in mind of, just like killers do when they chase anyone. Only, killers have to do it on a larger scale, with multiple survivor perks, with multiple survivors.
Should they tunnel the person that was just unhooked? What if they have BT and DS? Should they slug someone and go after the injured survivor trying to blind them? What if they have UB? What if the injured survivor has SB and DH? The killer has absolutely no way to know if a survivor has a perk until it is too late. If it is okay for one side, it is okay for the other.
As for your comment about Iridescent head, the devs never came out and said anything against or for it until they decided it was a problem. Yet, with NoEd, they have repeatedly spoken in favor of it. Though, if given enough time, I can see their minds change in order to appease all the whiners who want an easy game.
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McLean did acknowledge IH as a problem years before it was actually changed, as did most of the community. The devs actually do acknowledge stuff as a problem a long time before they change things... for some reason. The devs also speak in favor of things that aren't healthy for the game on a semi-regular basis. Do not use them as a reliable reference, a large chunk of them are very inexperienced.
If I had a token for every time someone on these forums used a argument centered around whataboutism to justify their weak point I could literally buy a majority of BHVR and just delete NOED lol. I'm going to ignore the point if someone does it again, so this is the last time I'll address the comparison.
Unknown survivor perks usually do not have as large and powerful of an effect that NOED does, nor do killers typically have to waste nearly as much time in comparison to survivors do will killer perks, especially those that are totem related.
The argument "just find the totem" is again, weak, because at the end of the day, if there's only one totem remaining, that totem is probably pretty hard to find, in some random spot that no one would reasonably check (looking at you, Treatment Theatre, Backwater Swamp). If you could just "wait for it then find it" then survivors would have just... found the totems earlier.
Post edited by thefallenloser on0 -
I understand that, not giving a facecamper an additional kill. But if most of the time facecampers will have noed, maybe it is good to at least cleanse some totems before the end game, so you can find noed faster.
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